evilfusion Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Can I GKs Watcher a Dragon Ravine? No. GK Watcher only works against EFFECTS that discard, and Ravine's discard is a cost. Also, Watcher only works against the activation of the card, not the activation of the effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Thanks for crushing my hopes of winning this round. Yankee is evil. EVIL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 No. GK Watcher only works against EFFECTS that discard, and Ravine's discard is a cost. Also, Watcher only works against the activation of the card, not the activation of the effect. On a similar note, can't you chain MST to the activation (and cost) of Dragon Ravine so that your opponent can only discard a card while rendering themselves unable to search/mill? I think it has to work the same way as DWL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Thanks for crushing my hopes of winning this round. Yankee is evil. EVIL! I knew it wasn't a coincidence that Yankee mentioned he was afraid of GK Watcher for your match. Watcher also doesn't work on Gates to Dark World, the same reason Solemn Warning is useless against Fusion Gate: Since it doesnt discard at activation, Watcher cant respond, and Watcher can only respond to a card's activation, not an effect. On a similar note, can't you chain MST to the activation (and cost) of Dragon Ravine so that your opponent can only discard a card while rendering themselves unable to search/mill? I think it has to work the same way as DWL. Yes, because the discard is a cost. Costs are paid before effects can be chained. And because Ravine is a Field Spell, removing it from the field will stop it from resolving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Okay another question. If I negate his Ravine with my SJ while Necrovalley is faceup, does Valley die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yes, because the discard is a cost. Costs are paid before effects can be chained. And because Ravine is a Field Spell, removing it from the field will stop it from resolving. Ha! In your face, Wraith. I knew I was right. Okay another question. If I negate his Ravine with my SJ while Necrovalley is faceup, does Valley die? Since there can only be one Field Spell at a time, Necrovalley will be destroyed before Ravine is set on the field. You may then use SJ to negate his Ravine, but Necrovalley will be destroyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Okay another question. If I negate his Ravine with my SJ while Necrovalley is faceup, does Valley die? No, it doesn't. If a player activates a Field Spell while their opponent has an active Field Spell, the old Field doesn't die until resolution. But if you play or Set a new Field Spell while you have a Set or Active Field Spell, the old one dies immediately. This is why activating a new Field against your opponent's will not kill your Sin/Earthbound Immortal monsters, but doing a new one over your own will. Also why Geartown misses the timing if you activate a new Field, but not if your opponent activates one or if you Set one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarcastiXDevil Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 If I use Vylon Prism as a Synchro Material, can I immediately equip Vylon Prism to that Synchro monster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 If I use Vylon Prism as a Synchro Material, can I immediately equip Vylon Prism to that Synchro monster?Yes. Being an "If" effect Prism does not miss timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 What is it about SD/AM that means SJ can't negate it because me and Yankee were wrong about this and it might have cost me game 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 What is it about SD/AM that means SJ can't negate it because me and Yankee were wrong about this and it might have cost me game 3.Solemn Judgment cannot negate an effect that Special Summons. Only inherent Special Summons.It also cannot negate monster effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I was gonna SJ his first thing then SW SD/AM but we were chatting and I asked him if Judgment could negate /AM and he said yes. Actually now I'm just making excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarcastiXDevil Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 A friend asked me whether his opponent can revive Zephyros by returning an Extra Deck monster. I say he can, but the monster would just go to the Extra Deck instead of to his hand. But he insists that his opponent can't do that, as Zephyros requires the card to be returned to the hand, not anywhere else. Which one of us is correct? Solemn Judgment cannot negate an effect that Special Summons. Only inherent Special Summons.It also cannot negate monster effects. Wait, I don't get it. SoJu cannot negate the Special Summoning of SD/AM?Hell, I don't get the difference between "an effect that Special Summon a monster(s)" and "a Special Summon". Would someone kindly explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 A friend asked me whether his opponent can revive Zephyros by returning an Extra Deck monster. I say he can, but the monster would just go to the Extra Deck instead of to his hand. But he insists that his opponent can't do that, as Zephyros requires the card to be returned to the hand, not anywhere else. Which one of us is correct? Wait, I don't get it. SoJu cannot negate the Special Summoning of SD/AM?Hell, I don't get the difference between "an effect that Special Summon a monster(s)" and "a Special Summon". Would someone kindly explain?First part: Your friend is. Returning a card to the hand is a cost. If a card cannot be returned for whatever reason (eg. Battle Fader's effect banishing it instead of returning it to the hand) the cost cannot be paid and you cannot use that effect. For the second one, an "Effect that Special Summons a monster" is something like Monster Reborn or Glow-Up Bulb. Their effects activate and include summoning a monster. The "Special Summon of a monster" is when a monster is summoned. However, if a monster is summoned through an effect (Like SD/AM's effect), after resolution the Summon is already successful and cannot be negated. Thus, Solemn Judgment cannot negate that summon because it is successful and the monster has hit the field. On the other hand, if a card like Cyber Dragon is Special Summoned through it's summoning condition (note the effect doesn't actually activate), it hasn't hit the field quite yet and you can still negate that summon. And I see evilfusion viewing the thread so I'm quite sure he's about to ninja me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 A friend asked me whether his opponent can revive Zephyros by returning an Extra Deck monster. I say he can, but the monster would just go to the Extra Deck instead of to his hand. But he insists that his opponent can't do that, as Zephyros requires the card to be returned to the hand, not anywhere else. Which one of us is correct? Wait, I don't get it. SoJu cannot negate the Special Summoning of SD/AM?Hell, I don't get the difference between "an effect that Special Summon a monster(s)" and "a Special Summon". Would someone kindly explain? 1) You cannot. Returning a monster for Zephyros is a cost, and because Extra Deck monsters cannot be returned to the hand (because they go in the Extra Deck when bounced), the cost cannot be fulfilled with an Extra Deck monster. If a cost cannot be fulfilled exactly as it is demanded, it cannot be used. Extra Deck monsters cannot be returned to the hand, so you cannot try to return one to the hand as a cost (Genex Ally Birdman, Zephyros), but effects are fair game (Compulsory Evacuation Device). 2) If a Special Summon starts a chain, or is otherwise produced by the resolution of a card effect, Solemn Judgment, Thunder King Rai-Oh, etc cannot negate it. The main reason for this is that Summon negation takes place before the monster has been placed on the Field, and because you cannot activate cards during another card or effect's resolution, the Summon negation cards cannot negate those Summons. Taking Assault Mode's SS effect for a moment. During the End Phase of a turn that it has negated a card by its effect, it activates from the Graveyard. Solemn Judgment cannot negate Monster Effects, so it cannot respond at this timing. If the chain is allowed to resolve, SD/AM is Special Summoned during its effect's resolution. After that chain link is done resolving and a chain opportunity is provided, Assault Mode is considered to have been successfully Special Summoned, and Solemn Judgment's timing is invalid. The monster has already been successfully Summoned and cannot be negated. An inherent Special Summon is a Summon that does not start a chain, and is instead produced by a Summon Condition. For example, Cyber Dragon states that if you have no monsters and your opponent does, you are allowed to Special Summon it. That's a Special Summon condition, but it doesn't involve "activating" Cyber Dragon, so it doesn't start a chain. While the condition is true, you can Special Summon Cyber Dragon, and while it's not true, it abides by the normal rules of the game state. Some inherent SSes have costs, such as Grapha's revival effect, BLS- Envoy's SS, and Machina Fortress. These have costs, but they're still Summon Conditions and do not start a chain. These types of SSes can be negated with Solemn Judgment or Rai-Oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Couple of questions, one which I think you answered but I might as well clarify it anyway. 1.) Solemn Judgment can negate Grapha? Same for Rai-Oh? I wasn't aware this was possible since I thought Grapha's revival was an effect. 2.) If Double-Edged Sword Technique Special Summons 2 Six Samurai monsters, and one is used for a Synchro, while the other remains on the field, does the one that remains on the field get destroyed during the End Phase or does it stay on the field because the card is not able to "destroy both"? 3.) I know Skill Drain can negate Malefic Cyber End Dragon's self destruction condition, but if you have Skill Drain and Malefic Cyber End Dragon on the field at the same time, can other monsters you control declare an attack? As in, is the "Other monsters you control cannot declare an attack" part of the card a condition or an effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 1.) Solemn Judgment can negate Grapha? Same for Rai-Oh? I wasn't aware this was possible since I thought Grapha's revival was an effect. Yes they can. Grapha's wording to summon itself is a Summon Condition. It is not a monster effect nor does it start a chain. 2.) If Double-Edged Sword Technique Special Summons 2 Six Samurai monsters, and one is used for a Synchro, while the other remains on the field, does the one that remains on the field get destroyed during the End Phase or does it stay on the field because the card is not able to "destroy both"? You still destroy the remaining Six Samurai and take damage equal to its ATK. 3.) I know Skill Drain can negate Malefic Cyber End Dragon's self destruction condition, but if you have Skill Drain and Malefic Cyber End Dragon on the field at the same time, can other monsters you control declare an attack? As in, is the "Other monsters you control cannot declare an attack" part of the card a condition or an effect? It is a Continuous Effect. If negated, other monsters will be able to declare attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Couple of questions, one which I think you answered but I might as well clarify it anyway. 1.) Solemn Judgment can negate Grapha? Same for Rai-Oh? I wasn't aware this was possible since I thought Grapha's revival was an effect. 2.) If Double-Edged Sword Technique Special Summons 2 Six Samurai monsters, and one is used for a Synchro, while the other remains on the field, does the one that remains on the field get destroyed during the End Phase or does it stay on the field because the card is not able to "destroy both"? 3.) I know Skill Drain can negate Malefic Cyber End Dragon's self destruction condition, but if you have Skill Drain and Malefic Cyber End Dragon on the field at the same time, can other monsters you control declare an attack? As in, is the "Other monsters you control cannot declare an attack" part of the card a condition or an effect? 1) Yes, they can negate Grapha's revival. The same as Machina Fortress, the SS is actually a Summon Condition, and not an effect activating. 2) That's the same faulty logic that a certain man with the last name of "Tewart" used for Mirror Gate. "Both" refers to the monsters affected by the effect, not a condition that both have to be on the Field during the End Phase. If ANY of the monsters SSed by Double-Edged Sword Technique are face-up on the Field (and did not have the condition reset by Book of Moon or similar), it/they will die during the End Phase. 3) Yes, other monsters can attack while you have a Skill-Drained Malefic on the Field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I summon Caius and banish opponents only card on the field, Sangan. Can they Gorz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I summon Caius and banish opponents only card on the field, Sangan. Can they Gorz? Yes. The last thing in that chain to resolve was taking 1000 Effect Damage. Gorz will be SSed and 1000 will be inflicted right back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Banish Meklord Astro Mekanikle for Phantom of Chaos' effect. Equip a Synchro Monster to Phantom of Chaos. At the End Phase, do you lose the ATK gained by Mekanikle's effect from equipping a Synchro Monster? For that matter, does the Synchro Monster stay equipped at the End Phase anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Banish Meklord Astro Mekanikle for Phantom of Chaos' effect. Equip a Synchro Monster to Phantom of Chaos. At the End Phase, do you lose the ATK gained by Mekanikle's effect from equipping a Synchro Monster? For that matter, does the Synchro Monster stay equipped at the End Phase anyway? If Phantom of Chaos loses the effect, the equipped monster will be sent to the Graveyard as it no longer has an effect which allows it to equip itself with monsters in the fashion it is doing. Check up on rulings for Relinquished as its been here a lot longer than Meklord Astro Mekanikle has, which would follow the same rulings since its the same situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 If you play "Dark Hole" while Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En and Elder of the Six Samurai are on the field at the same time, can Shi En destroy Elder to save itself, or would they both be destroyed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDDRodrigo Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 If you play "Dark Hole" while Legendary Six Samurai - Shi En and Elder of the Six Samurai are on the field at the same time, can Shi En destroy Elder to save itself, or would they both be destroyed? The destruction is simultaneous, so Shi En wouldn't be able to save itself like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 The destruction is simultaneous, so Shi En wouldn't be able to save itself like that. I'm assuming this also works with Double-Edged Sword Technique, Mirror Force, and Torrential Tribute, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.