Expelsword Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Wait, will Veiler stop Tengu?It seems to be different than Sangan because KONAMI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Wait, will Veiler stop Tengu?It seems to be different than Sangan because KONAMI Veiler will only stop effects that activate on the field or apply while the monster is on the field. Tengu activates wherever it leaves the field to, meaning it would never activate on the field. Veiler cannot stop Tengu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Then again I ask why Tengu does not work destroyed face-down but Sangan does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Then again I ask why Tengu does not work destroyed face-down but Sangan does... Because Sangan resolves specifically in the Graveyard. Also, because Tengu can't get its effect when returned to the Deck, and that for ruling convenience (so they don't have to completely reword the text), it won't work face-down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 Then again I ask why Tengu does not work destroyed face-down but Sangan does... Sangan specifically states "sent from the Field to the Graveyard". Being face-up or face-down doesn't matter to Sangan because the scope of the game can see that the face-down card was sent from the field to the Graveyard. Tengu's trigger is "When removed from the field". There are many ways to remove cards from the field. Bouncing them to the hand, destroying them, banishing them, returning them to the deck, etc. To start with, in order to activate an effect, a player needs to have access to the card itself at the time of activation (though are exceptions, some due to mandatory effects activating (such as when Ehren returns a Flip Effect monster to the deck and that monster's effect still activates on the field since it flipped, and cards like Serpentine Princess that specifically activates from the Deck due to its card text allowing it). Tengu will not activate when returned to the deck for this reason: The player doesn't have access to the card while it is in the Deck and therefore cannot activate its effect. Next, cards can be removed from the field both face-up and face-down. Since the Trigger is "When this card is removed from the field", the scope has to be closed enough to verify that "this card" was indeed the one removed from the field. While it may be able to see that the card removed from the field to the Graveyard or Banished zones when they are face-up in those zones in both player's view, the game cannot say the same when those cards are returned to the Hand or Deck where 1 (or 0) players have access to those cards. Therefore the scope is limited to seeing the card while its on the field and while that card is face-up so that both the game and players can verify that clearly THIS is the card that was removed from the field and there would be no mistake about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I wish Konami would just make rules that don't require such complex interpretations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Berserker- Posted October 31, 2011 Report Share Posted October 31, 2011 I wish Konami would just make rules that don't require such complex interpretations...Then this would be a children's card game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowferret Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Does Double Tool C&D negate Tengu? I know it won't hit Sangan, but Tengu is confusing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sage Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 "If it attacks, any effects of the attack target that activate or apply on the field are negated during that Battle Phase"Tengu doesn't activate on the field and doesn't directly affect the field, so it isn't negated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Core Blaster vs Catastor, with Catastor attacking. Who wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astolfo Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 They both destroy each other, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sage Posted November 2, 2011 Report Share Posted November 2, 2011 Since both of them are DARK and no external force is applied, Catastor naturally wins since it has higher ATK. Neither effect activates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Waitwhat? Core blaster is a spell, SPELL attribute. Equip only to a "Koa'ki Meiru" monster. If it battles a LIGHT or DARK monster, destroy that monster without applying damage calculation. When the equipped monster is removed from the field and this card is sent to the Graveyard, you can return this card to your hand. So if they're using this and my Catastor attacks on my turn, who wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Both are mandatory... So I think both go through. If not, Turn Player loses. Sometimes, I question the cards people ask questions about ._. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sage Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Oh, misread that as "Core Destroyer". Oops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 @Yuzuru: Ty ty. I won't bore you with details, so I'll just say I was dueling a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Waitwhat? Core blaster is a spell, SPELL attribute. So if they're using this and my Catastor attacks on my turn, who wins?If Catastor attacks (assuming the other monster is a non-DARK), it is Chain Link 1 and Core Blaster is Chain Link 2. Core resolves first, but Catastor has already activated so it's effect still goes through, so both die in the end. If the monster with Core Blaster attacks, Core would be CL1 and Catastor CL2. Catastor would destroy the monster, then by Equip/Continuous spell rules Core wouldn't be able to resolve since it isn't on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greiga Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Thank you sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Here's a pair of questions from me. 1) Wind-Up Zenmaines protects itself from being destroyed. During the End Phase, it activates and targets a card. Another effect is chained and destroys Zenmaines. Does Zenmaines still resolve? I know Zenmaines is ruled it will not activate if it left the field before the End Phase, but what about when it's ALREADY activated? Does it need to be face-up on the field to resolve? I think "no", because it's a Trigger Effect that does not rely on Zenmaines' survival post-activation. 2) Number 17 has used its effect, but then has its effect negated sometime after it has resolved. Does it lose the ATK boost? If so, why? This was a particularly troublesome situation, because while I personally believe it DOES (and it has never been questioned before, so I'm probably right), I can't quite explain WHY it loses a permanent boost, as opposed to a few other monsters that permanently modify a card's stats. My conclusion is that: If a monster's effect can only modify its own stats, the stats will revert to normal if the effect is negated at any point. However, if it has the ability to modify ANOTHER monster's stats, it will be a lingering effect and not be lost when negated, assuming the effect does not rely on the user's suvival to continue. For example: Number 20 affects all monsters when it resolves, including itself. The ATK boost is not lost, even if Number 20 is removed from the field or negated post-resolution. Gale the Whirlwind affects another monster, and so it is also not restored if the effect is negated post-resolution. Abroholos the Megaquake only affects itself, and so its ATK should be restored if its effect is negated. Am I on the right track with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 1) Wind-Up Zenmaines protects itself from being destroyed. During the End Phase, it activates and targets a card. Another effect is chained and destroys Zenmaines. Does Zenmaines still resolve? If Zenmaines activated during the End Phase and a card was chained that removed it from the field, it would still resolve. 2) Number 17 has used its effect, but then has its effect negated sometime after it has resolved. Its ATK will be reset to 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sage Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Why does Kuraz work differently than Dark Bribe, etc, if the destruction effect activates when there is a face-up Protector of the Sanctuary on the field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Why does Kuraz work differently than Dark Bribe, etc, if the destruction effect activates when there is a face-up Protector of the Sanctuary on the field? I would guess because Kuraz doesn't ensure your opponent will draw a card; you could theoretically target up to 2 of your own cards, for example. Dark Bribe explicitly says it forces the opponent to draw a card, so you can't use it while you control the Protector of the Sanctuary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shradow Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 1. If One Day of Peace/Momentary Truce's eff is still active, do you not take damage from Power Bond? 2. Can you play Polymerization or other fusing cards that send cards to the graveyard to Fusion Summon if Macro Cosmos/D. Fissure is activated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Sage Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 1. If One Day of Peace/Momentary Truce's eff is still active, do you not take damage from Power Bond?The damage taken from Power Bond is effect damage, which is one of two things One day of peace protects from, so I don't see why not.2. Can you play Polymerization or other fusing cards that send cards to the graveyard to Fusion Summon if Macro Cosmos/D. Fissure is activated?Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Fusion cards send as part of the effect. Only costs cannot be used if they designate the Grave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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