Yu-Gi-Oh! Rulings Questions

[darkwolf777]

Not even a card like Solemn Warning or Solemn Judgment can be used during the Damage Step.

 

Counter Traps can be used during the Damage Step, no matter what they do.

[Dad]

Yeah I got tired of trying to explain that Gorz can't be Solemned or Opressioned. Warning hit's him because of his token right?

[darkwolf777]

Yeah I got tired of trying to explain that Gorz can't be Solemned or Opressioned. Warning hit's him because of his token right?

 

Gorz cannot be Solemned because Solemn Judgment cannot negate a card effect that Special Summons. It can only negate inherent Special Summons (for example, Dark Armed Dragon).

 

Gorz cannot be Oppressioned because Oppression does not do the aforementioned (does not increase ATK/DEF, nor does it allow you to use it during the Damage Step).

 

Gorz CAN be Solemn Warning'd, because unlike Solemn Judgment, Solemn Warning can negate an effect that Special Summons, and Gorz is an effect that Special Summons himself.

 

Warning can hit Gorz for either Special Summoning himself and for Special Summoning the Token (which is all part of the same single effect anyway). It doesn't matter which.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

My mistake. I was thinking of something else. Still, Oppression wouldn't work on Gorz since it's during the Damage Step. But Counter Traps can be activated at the time of the Damage Step.

[Dad]

Gorz cannot be Solemned because Solemn Judgment cannot negate a card effect that Special Summons. It can only negate inherent Special Summons (for example, Dark Armed Dragon).

 

Gorz cannot be Oppressioned because Oppression does not do the aforementioned (does not increase ATK/DEF, nor does it allow you to use it during the Damage Step).

 

Gorz CAN be Solemn Warning'd.

 

That's what I was saying.

 

But I was told the Solemn Judgment misses because of the Damage Step, same thing with Oppression. I didn't know it had that inherent effect thingy behind it.

[darkwolf777]

But I was told the Solemn Judgment misses because of the Damage Step, same thing with Oppression. I didn't know it had that inherent effect thingy behind it.

 

Wrong and Right. Read what I said about Solemn Judgment.

 

Counter Traps can be used during the Damage Step, it has nothing to do with any missed timing.

 

Only Royal Oppression cannot be used during the Damage Step, because it doesn't apply to what's allowed during the Damage Step.

[Dad]

Wrong and Wrong. Read what I said about Solemn Judgment and Royal Oppression.

 

Ooooh, I get it now. You mofos should be judges. Thanks a bunch. =D

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Rulings are pretty deep and can get confusing sometimes... Something inherent with card games with the "reactive" mechanic. Newbies and olbies alike can make mistakes based on them. Even Darkwolf isn't right 100% of the time (but is right a lot more than I am), so don't feel bad if you get something wrong. Eventually you'll get the hang of it.

 

I have my own question: Does Verdant Sanctuary work on an Insect-Type monster attacked while face-down? I know there is an OCG ruling that it doesn't work, but the OCG and TCG don't always fit together, and I was wondering if there was a different ruling.

[evilfusion]

In almost all cases, a card that specifically states "faceup" will not activate if a monster was flipped up by an attack. If the OCG confirms that it does not work, then I'm going to assume the same applies to the TCG, as I do not find a TCG ruling that either confirms nor denies that ruling, and it would fit the typical rulings.

 

However, the card Spiritual Forest contradicts this (at least in WC10). Spiritual Forest protects a "faceup Beast/Plant/Beast Warrior" from being destroyed in battle, but a Beast/etc flipped by an attack will still be spared.

 

One reason Verdant specifies faceup is that it activates in response to ALL destruction, so a facedown Insect will not get the search.

 

Somewhere along the line, it seems to be to the spirit of these effects that facedown monsters flipped by attacks don't count (Poison Draw Frog specifically states this as the exception).

[darkwolf777]

In almost all cases, a card that specifically states "faceup" will not activate if a monster was flipped up by an attack. If the OCG confirms that it does not work, then I'm going to assume the same applies to the TCG, as I do not find a TCG ruling that either confirms nor denies that ruling, and it would fit the typical rulings.

 

However, the card Spiritual Forest contradicts this (at least in WC10). Spiritual Forest protects a "faceup Beast/Plant/Beast Warrior" from being destroyed in battle, but a Beast/etc flipped by an attack will still be spared.

 

One reason Verdant specifies faceup is that it activates in response to ALL destruction, so a facedown Insect will not get the search.

 

Somewhere along the line, it seems to be to the spirit of these effects that facedown monsters flipped by attacks don't count (Poison Draw Frog specifically states this as the exception).

 

There could be different reasons for this.

 

A Trigger Effect's trigger, like Verdant Sanctuary's, must be entirely correct to be tripped (as it must be for any Trigger). My only assumption is that it is not considered to have been "a Face-up monster is destroyed by battle", but was instead "a face-down monster that is flipped face-up is destroyed by battle". There must be a difference between "Being Face-Up" and "Being flipped Face-Up", which may be causing the condition to be incorrect, which may be why those effects do not trigger. Trigger Effects like this have a series of events that all must be correct.

 

A Continuous Card like Spiritual Forest doesn't require a chain of events to be correct, but the conditions are correct at the specific point in time. During the Damage Step, a monster is indeed face-up, and its type can be determined to be either Beast, Beast-Warrior, or Plant. It doesn't care how or when the monster became face-up, just so long as its type can be seen. In any case, "face-up" would be redundant on this card anyway since there's no way to have battle calculations and have a monster that is still face-down.

 

All these assumptions are about all I have, take them as you please lol.

[~British Soul~]

i activate a card which requires me to discard 1 card for a cost, i discard "Night Assailant", does his effect miss the timing?

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

i activate a card which requires me to discard 1 card for a cost, i discard "Night Assailant", does his effect miss the timing?

It's a mandatory effect, so it never misses timing.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

It's a mandatory effect, and therefore can't miss the timing to my knowledge. But do keep in mind that you can't pick Night Assailant for its own effect.

[Mysty]

It's a mandatory effect, and therefore can't miss the timing to my knowledge. But do keep in mind that you can't pick Night Assailant for its own effect.

 

Exactly. With two, they could pick each other, which is why Night Assailant is limited.

[burnpsy]

Formula Synchron is summoned while T.G. Hyper Librarian is out. Can I draw 2, or does Formula miss the timing?

 

Chimeratech Overdragon is summoned while I have Decree out. Its effect sends Decree to the Graveyard. My opponent can't use Solemn Warning on Overdragon, but can they use Torrential Tribute?

[.Nu-13]

You draw 2

[evilfusion]

Formula Synchron is summoned while T.G. Hyper Librarian is out. Can I draw 2, or does Formula miss the timing?

 

Chimeratech Overdragon is summoned while I have Decree out. Its effect sends Decree to the Graveyard. My opponent can't use Solemn Warning on Overdragon, but can they use Torrential Tribute?

 

You draw 2. The timing (Formula Synchron being Synchro Summoned) is the same for both, so both effects will activate.

 

No, they cannot use either. Well, they could, but it'll be negated by Decree. Chimeratech Overdragon's field wipe, like Black Rose Dragon's, occurs at the Summoning, the difference being Black Rose Dragon's effect is optional and Chimeratech's is mandatory. They have to chain to Chimeratech's effect, and since Chains resolve backwards, Torrential will try to resolve first, before Chimeratech has wiped the controller's field, when Decree is still active.

[burnpsy]

Thanks. That makes sense.

[darkwolf777]

Formula Synchron is summoned while T.G. Hyper Librarian is out. Can I draw 2, or does Formula miss the timing?

 

Not too sure as of yet if "T.G. Hyper Librarian's" effect is a Trigger Effect or a Continuous Effect (mainly due to the "While this card is face up" condition, and the use of "each time" rather than "when". Though it shouldn't make a difference as to you drawing cards. Maybe someone can check in WC11 if Hyper Librarian is in it.

 

1) If T.G. Hyper Librarian is a Continuous Effect, then you would draw 1 card for Hyper Librarian's effect as soon as the Synchro Summon was successful, before Formula Synchron can be activated. After you draw the card due to the Continuous Effect, you can activate Formula Synchron as Chain Link #1. A Continuous Effect would not cause you to miss the timing.

 

2) If T.G. Hyper Librarian is a Trigger Effect, then they are both Trigger Effects sharing the same timing. T.G. Hyper Librarian would be Chain Link #1 (as it is Mandatory), and the optional effect of Formula Synchron would be Chain Link 2, which would then resolve backwards and you would draw 1 card for each.

 

Chimeratech Overdragon is summoned while I have Decree out. Its effect sends Decree to the Graveyard. My opponent can't use Solemn Warning on Overdragon, but can they use Torrential Tribute?

 

Sorry, didn't noticed it said you controlled Decree.

 

Then no, they can use Torrential Tribute but because it will be Chain Link #2, it will be negated, while Chimeratech Overdragon would be Chain Link #1 (the Trigger Effect), and the cards (including Royal Decree) have not been sent to the Graveyard yet.

[evilfusion]

Wiki says Hyper Librarian is a Trigger Effect.

[.Nu-13]

WC11 doesn't have Librarian sadly

 

I just noticed that WC11 Custom Duel Puzzle mode is a perfect place to check various rulings

[darkwolf777]

Wiki says Hyper Librarian is a Trigger Effect.

 

Wiki says a lot of things my friend. I still have my doubt though have no complaints if it is a Trigger Effect.

 

I don't know of any cards that can Synchro Summon multiple times, so not sure how it can be monster(s). I figure you use two Urgent Tuning and chain them together and perform Two Synchro Summons before Hyper Librarian activates (if it were a Trigger Effect). Of course, if it were a Continuous Effect, you would draw between chains, though as a Trigger, I guess it would activate once, and then you would draw 2 cards for that one activation, rather than two activations chaining to each other drawing 1 card each.

 

That's the only way I could see "each time" really meaning anything as a Trigger Effect is with Urgent Tuning chaining to another Urgent Tuning <_<;

[evilfusion]

I know; I normally take Wiki's stuff with a grain of salt, but we have no other resources to confirm.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

The situation sounds a lot like if you tributed Sangan to summon Mobius. Thought I'd bring it up to see if it helps.

[evilfusion]

The difference is Sangan is a mandatory Trigger effect, and Mobius is an optional Trigger Effect. Being mandatory, Sangan activates at the next possible instance (in the timing "A monster was Tribute Summoned successfully"), and Mobius' optional Trigger Effect can be activated during this timing as well.

 

What darkwolf isn't sure about is if Hyper Librarian is a Continuous Effect or a mandatory Trigger Effect. If the latter, it will be the same as Sangan + Mobius, in that both are added to the same chain because they activate at the same timing.

 

I'm 95% sure it's a mandatory Trigger Effect.