Yu-Gi-Oh! Rulings Questions

[-Griffin]

If you negate and destroy Neo-Spacian Grand Mole with War Chariot, the battle ends. No Damage Calculation occurs since the target is gone, your GB monster is considered to have declared an attack, and your GB monster will NOT be considered to have "attacked or been attacked", and therefore cannot activate its swapping effect at the end of the Battle Phase.

 

I'm pretty sure there's a replay, since there was no damage calc?

[darkwolf777]

I'm pretty sure there's a replay, since there was no damage calc?

 

Replays occur during the Battle Step, when an effect is chained to an attack declaration that changes the number of monsters on the opponent's side of the field. When this change occurs, a player can choose to continue their attack against the target, or to choose a new target (This is still part of the Battle Step). After attack declaration is successful (i.e. when the attack declaration isn't negated), then your monster is locked onto that target, and the Battle Step goes into the Damage Step. Whatever happens past this point will not create a replay.

 

Neo-Spacian Grand Mole's effect occurs after the attack declaration resolved successfully, at the beginning of the Damage Step. It is too late for a replay to occur at this time.

[-Griffin]

Replays occur when an effect is chained to an attack declaration that changes the number of monsters on the opponent's side of the field. When this change occurs, a player can choose to continue their attack against the target, or to choose a new target (This is still part of the Battle Step, not Damage Step). After attack declaration is successful (i.e. when the attack declaration isn't negated), then your monster is locked onto that target. Whatever happens past this point will not create a replay.

 

Neo-Spacian Grand Mole's effect occurs after the attack declaration resolved successfully, at the beginning of the Damage Step. It is too late for a replay to occur at this time.

 

Oh, just re-read it, yes, no replay. Thought it chained immediately to attack declaration... think I've made that error before a few times.

[Expelsword]

Opponent MST's my Call of the Haunted...

 

Can I chain it and revive Stardust Dragon and then tribute it to dodge Call's destruction effect?

[evilfusion]

Opponent MST's my Call of the Haunted...

 

Can I chain it and revive Stardust Dragon and then tribute it to dodge Call's destruction effect?

 

No. Stardust Dragon must be on the field when the destruction effect is activated in order to activate its effect. When Call of the Haunted resolves, MST will be past "activation" and will be resolving, at which point it's too late to use Stardust's effect on MST.

 

Call of the Haunted's "destroy the monster when this card is destroyed" is a continuous effect and does not start a chain, so you cannot chain Stardust's effect when Call is destroyed, either.

[Expelsword]

No. Stardust Dragon must be on the field when the destruction effect is activated in order to activate its effect. When Call of the Haunted resolves, MST will be past "activation" and will be resolving, at which point it's too late to use Stardust's effect on MST.

 

Call of the Haunted's "destroy the monster when this card is destroyed" is a continuous effect and does not start a chain, so you cannot chain Stardust's effect when Call is destroyed, either.

 

Awww.... oh well

[Alastar Rainford]

Black Garden's first effect vs Naturia Beast

[darkwolf777]

Black Garden's first effect vs Naturia Beast

 

Naturia Beast negates the activation of Spell Cards themselves, not the activation of their effects. Therefore, Naturia Beast cannot negate the effects of an already activated Spell Card such as a Face-Up Black Garden. Naturia Beast can only be activated when the Black Garden card itself is being activated, i.e. played from the hand to the Field Spell Card zone.

[burnpsy]

Can one declare that they are repeating a loop Graham's Number times?

 

A more specific example, the Palomuro Infinite LP loop. If the opponent cannot stop the loop, can one simply say "and I repeat this Graham's Number times" and end up with a finite, but overwhelmingly huge and incalculable amount of LP?

[darkwolf777]

Can one declare that they are repeating a loop Graham's Number times?

 

A more specific example, the Palomuro Infinite LP loop. If the opponent cannot stop the loop, can one simply say "and I repeat this Graham's Number times" and end up with a finite, but overwhelmingly huge and incalculable amount of LP?

 

If it is "incalculable" then no, probably not. If it can't be calculated, how would you calculate anything else in the game, such as taking damage o.x or activating Solemn Judgement? I ACTIVATE SOLEMN JUDGEMENT. I HAVE HALF A GRAHAM'S NUMBER LIFE POINTS. THEN I SUMMON ANCIENT SACRED WYVERN WITH HALF A GRAHAM'S NUMBER + 2100 ATK POINTS! I ATTACK! NOOOO YOU ACTIVATED RAINBOW LIFE, NOW YOU HAVE HALF A GRAHAM + 8000 LP!

 

Edit: eh, you said "performed the loop that many times". meh, either way, point still stands Dx Just name a value you can calculate and doesn't ERROR your calculator and continue the duel. If it were me, I wouldn't let you shortcut it at all. I would make you perform each attack and announce each and every time you perform this loop, including asking me if I want to counter or pass my priority back to you. You'll stop when you're tired of it all.

[burnpsy]

If it is "incalculable" then no, probably not. If it can't be calculated, how would you calculate anything else in the game, such as taking damage o.x or activating Solemn Judgement? I ACTIVATE SOLEMN JUDGEMENT. I HAVE HALF A GRAHAM'S NUMBER LIFE POINTS. THEN I SUMMON ANCIENT SACRED WYVERN WITH HALF A GRAHAM'S NUMBER + 2100 ATK POINTS! I ATTACK! NOOOO YOU ACTIVATED RAINBOW LIFE, NOW YOU HAVE HALF A GRAHAM + 8000 LP!

 

Edit: eh, you said "performed the loop that many times". meh, either way, point still stands Dx Just name a value you can calculate and doesn't ERROR your calculator and continue the duel. If it were me, I wouldn't let you shortcut it at all. I would make you perform each attack and announce each and every time you perform this loop, including asking me if I want to counter or pass my priority back to you. You'll stop when you're tired of it all.

 

One can calculate it, it just isn't worth your time:

 

 

I actually heard that it's legal to claim an amount of times that is an actual number. Other card games do it too. Graham's number is simply a number that is larger than the amount of particles in the universe (IIRC), so it is an actual number.

 

Also, Graham's Number IS an actual number, so half of Graham's Number would be a valid number, it's just so large that the only LP worth keeping track of is the opponent's LP until someone activates Life Equalizer or Self-Destruct Button. NOT allowing it weakens a perfectly valid combo.

[darkwolf777]

One can calculate it, it just isn't worth your time:

 

I actually heard that it's legal to claim an amount of times that is an actual number. Other card games do it too. Graham's number is simply a number that is larger than the amount of particles in the universe (IIRC), so it is an actual number.

 

Also, Graham's Number IS an actual number, so half of Graham's Number would be a valid number, it's just so large that the only LP worth keeping track of is the opponent's LP until someone activates Life Equalizer or Self-Destruct Button. NOT allowing it weakens a perfectly valid combo.

 

Then may I ask, when it is practical to use a number so large? :< Also, I used the work "incalculable" because you did :3c

 

In any case, if you use such a number, then you're performing your own calculations, and they better be precise. If I have to ask a judge to calculate and verify your Graham's Number of life points after i've inflicted damage to you, then i'm sure he wont be happy about it.

 

Then again, I don't tourney anyway >_>; Like I said, i'd make you perform each and every calculation one step at a time, and not let you choose to say "i will do this a bajiillion times, now i have a ridiculous amount of LP". Once you get tired of looping, then we can get on with the duel (even though i hear you're allowed to do this anyway). IMO, If you cannot write the exact value down, then its not a valid number, regardless of how valid of a number "Graham's Number" is. For some reason, this feels like some kind of massive trolling that would piss me off if someone tried to pull this on me lol.

[Expelsword]

One can calculate it, it just isn't worth your time:

 

 

I actually heard that it's legal to claim an amount of times that is an actual number. Other card games do it too. Graham's number is simply a number that is larger than the amount of particles in the universe (IIRC), so it is an actual number.

 

Also, Graham's Number IS an actual number, so half of Graham's Number would be a valid number, it's just so large that the only LP worth keeping track of is the opponent's LP until someone activates Life Equalizer or Self-Destruct Button. NOT allowing it weakens a perfectly valid combo.

 

What is the value of GN, may I ask?

[Expelsword]

Also, a question

 

if a card is resloved, is it considered to be on the field until the end of the chain?

[darkwolf777]

Also, a question

 

if a card is resloved, is it considered to be on the field until the end of the chain?

 

Yes. Unless removed from the field by the effects of cards participating in the chain, they will stay on the field until the entire chain has resolved.

[evilfusion]

I suppose the exception to that, however, is if a later link in the chain (and thus resolving first) has an effect that destroys other cards or removes them from the field (Scrubbed Raid/MST/Emergency Provisions).

[darkwolf777]

Exception? Doesn't "Unless removed from the field by the effects of cards participating in the chain," take care of what you mentioned? :< (well Scrubbed Raid and Emergency Provisions are costs, but same thing I guess)

[Legend Zero]

Does anyone have the deck list for the 2009 world champ?

[Expelsword]

Odd question

 

This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card cannot be Special Summoned except with its own effect or with "Assault Mode Activate". You can Tribute this card to negate the activation of a Spell Card, Trap Card, or Effect Monster's effect, and destroy that card. If you negate an effect this way, you can Special Summon this card from your Graveyard during the End Phase. When this card on the field is destroyed, you can Special Summon 1 "Stardust Dragon" from your Graveyard.

 

 

If I had a way to summon SD/AM ignoring the conditions, and then tribute it, can it be summoned from the Graveyard?

 

Its "except clause" includes its own effect, which is why I asked.

[darkwolf777]

Odd question

 

This card cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. This card cannot be Special Summoned except with its own effect or with "Assault Mode Activate". You can Tribute this card to negate the activation of a Spell Card, Trap Card, or Effect Monster's effect, and destroy that card. If you negate an effect this way, you can Special Summon this card from your Graveyard during the End Phase. When this card on the field is destroyed, you can Special Summon 1 "Stardust Dragon" from your Graveyard.

 

 

If I had a way to summon SD/AM ignoring the conditions, and then tribute it, can it be summoned from the Graveyard?

 

Its "except clause" includes its own effect, which is why I asked.

 

The hard coded ruling is a Semi Nomi or Nomi monster cannot be Special Summoned from the Graveyard unless it was Special Summoned properly first, even if you ignore the Summoning Conditions. Just like when Stardust Dragon that is improperly Special Summoned (i.e. NOT Synchro Summoned) with Starlight Road cannot be Special Summoned by its own effect. If you Ignored SD/AM's Summoning Conditions to Special Summoning, then it was not properly Special Summoned by its conditions, so no, you would not be able to Special Summon it by its own effect. At least that's how I see it, though I don't think I can actually verify something like this x.x

 

I'm not sure of too many cards that ignore Summoning Conditions of Semi-Nomi monsters or Nomi monsters that can Special Summon themselves x.o;

[evilfusion]

SD/AM's effect is much the same as Vennominaga's, which also "cannot be Special Summoned except by its own effect or by method X". The issue comes from, like darkwolf said, that it is "hard-coded" that Nomi/Semi-Nomi monsters cannot be Special Summoned by any means unless it was first properly summoned. Even cards that ignore the summoning conditions require that, at one point, the conditions were fulfilled, and the memory of the condition is carried over when the monster is sent to grave or RFG. Horus LV 8 can be Special Summoned with Level Modulation, but only if it was previously properly summoned.

 

Therefore, SD/AM can never be Special Summoned without using Assault Mode Activate, because no other card can Special Summon it. Like Vennominaga, SD/AM's revival effect is one that can only be utilized after it was summoned (it has to successfully negate something) and Vennominaga needed to have been destroyed in battle. You can't use Assault Revival on SD/AM unless it was summoned properly, and only then can you "ignore the summoning conditions".

 

Think of most "ignore the summoning conditions" as meaning "The monster is treated as a Semi-nomi instead". Semi nomis still need to have been properly summoned before being revived.

[burnpsy]

What is the value of GN, may I ask?

 

I'm not too sure, but we know that the last 500 digits are:

 

02425950695064738395657479136519351798334535362521

43003540126026771622672160419810652263169355188780

38814483140652526168785095552646051071172000997092

91249544378887496062882911725063001303622934916080

25459461494578871427832350829242102091825896753560

43086993801689249889268099510169055919951195027887

17830837018340236474548882222161573228010132974509

27344594504343300901096928025352751833289884461508

94042482650181938515625357963996189939679054966380

03222348723967018485186439059104575627262464195387

[Expelsword]

I'm not too sure, but we know that the last 500 digits are:

 

02425950695064738395657479136519351798334535362521

43003540126026771622672160419810652263169355188780

38814483140652526168785095552646051071172000997092

91249544378887496062882911725063001303622934916080

25459461494578871427832350829242102091825896753560

43086993801689249889268099510169055919951195027887

17830837018340236474548882222161573228010132974509

27344594504343300901096928025352751833289884461508

94042482650181938515625357963996189939679054966380

03222348723967018485186439059104575627262464195387

 

The point was you said you could calculate it...

 

if you cannot come up with a value, it is not allowed

[burnpsy]

The point was you said you could calculate it...

 

if you cannot come up with a value, it is not allowed

 

Graham's Number IS a value. I was hoping for some sort of answer that wasn't just guesswork. The way I heard, one cannot declare infinity because it's not a finite number - but I have not seen a rule about famous, ridiculously huge numbers. Seeing as nobody has cited a rule like that, I'd have to assume it's allowed.

[-Griffin]

The point was you said you could calculate it...

 

if you cannot come up with a value, it is not allowed

 

'Graham's Number' is accepted as a mathematical value, just like 'a million' is. I'm pretty sure that to type out the full string of numbers would take more storage space than every computer in the world combined or something equally stupid, loading the full thing would be impossible, so asking for a posted number is insane.