Yu-Gi-Oh! Rulings Questions

[darkwolf777]

1. When Goyo or Firedog (monsters that have triggers destroying as a result of battle) hit a Sangan' date=' am I still allowed to snag that Sangan (Or anything like Sangan)?

[/quote']

 

Yes, you could use Goyo's effect to Special Summon Sangan to your side of the field. Goyo's/Firedog's and Sangan's Effects create a chain together. Why you would want to, I don't know, since that's a potential +1 you'll give your opponent if that Sangan is sent to the Graveyard again x.o

 

2. When a Six Samurai user uses the effect to destroy a different Samurai they control (when one is destroyed by battle)' date=' can Stardust negate that and end up destroying both?

[/quote']

 

The effect which sacrifices a Six Samurai monster you control when another is destroyed is Continuous and does not create a chain. Stardust Dragon cannot chain to that.

 

3. When a monster is equipped with a Union and is given the option to destroy it instead (like when /Assault kills Machina Fortress by battle) can Stardust (the original OR /Assault) negate that?

 

For the same reason as the Six Samurai, the option of destroying itself instead of destroying the equipped monster is a Continuous Effect that does not start a chain. You cannot activate either card to it. Also, for all Union monsters (i'm pretty sure anyway), the effect to sacrifice the Union monster is mandatory.

[Expelsword]

So if Firedog hits a monster with a Grave effect it DOESN'T miss the timing? I was told it did...

 

Sad about the 6Sam and Union though...

[Tronta]

descending lost star grabs bicorn. what happens when bicorn is destroyed?

 

bicorn has a 'when this card is destroyed' effect which activates in the graveyard, lost star specials a synchro (bicorn in this example), but has a 'that monster's effect is negated' clause.

 

does bicorn get the graveyard effect?

 

i question because typically searchers still get their effects, even if skilldrain is out. but then skilldrain only specifies the field. however, the negation of bicorn's effect might only pertain to as long as it's alive, because once it's destroyed i don't know if lost star has any sway over it anymore.

[evilfusion]

Things only miss the timing if it's an optional effect that for some reason is not allowed to be added to a present chain (such as its trigger occurs mid-chain resolution), or if the trigger for their activation has passed because it wasn't the last thing to occur. Firedog's effect activates when it destroys a monster and sends it to the graveyard. A grave effect such as Grave Squirmer has the trigger of needing to be sent to the graveyard by battle, and so is added to the chain at that time.

 

Now, an effect like Jinzo-Returner, which activates when it's sent to the graveyard. If Flamvell Firedog attacks Grave Squirmer and destroys it, the triggers occur at the same time and the turn player determines which effect is Chain Link 1 and 2, and therefore what order they resolve in. Suppose for some reason, the turn player wants Squirmer to be Chain Link 2, so it resolves first, and the controller of Squirmer activates the effect to destroy Jinzo-Returner. Chain Link 1 (Firedog) resolves and summons a 200 DEF Fire. At this point, Jinzo-Returner missed the timing because a chain was still resolving when its effect would be allowed to go off.

 

If Jinzo-Returner is Tributed for Spell Canceller, the last action to occur was a summoning, not Returner going to the graveyard, so Returner missed the timing.

 

Almost all effects that occur when destroyed in battle won't miss the timing. You can chain Hero Signal to Mystic Tomato's effect activating in the graveyard, for example, because the last thing to occur was a monster being destroyed in battle.

 

descending lost star grabs bicorn. what happens when bicorn is destroyed?

 

bicorn has a 'when this card is destroyed' effect which activates in the graveyard' date=' lost star specials a synchro (bicorn in this example), but has a 'that monster's effect is negated' clause.

 

does bicorn get the graveyard effect?

 

i question because typically searchers still get their effects, even if skilldrain is out. but then skilldrain only specifies the field. however, the negation of bicorn's effect might only pertain to as long as it's alive, because once it's destroyed i don't know if lost star has any sway over it anymore.

[/quote']

 

This sort of thing bugged me for a little bit, especially pertaining to Stardust Dragon and its effect and also thinking of Skill Drain as an example.

 

CORRECTION: It WILL work because the effect doesn't activate on the field. However, it should still negate Stardust because that effect DOES activate on the field, even if it applies while it's in the graveyard.

[darkwolf777]

descending lost star grabs bicorn. what happens when bicorn is destroyed?

 

bicorn has a 'when this card is destroyed' effect which activates in the graveyard' date=' lost star specials a synchro (bicorn in this example), but has a 'that monster's effect is negated' clause.

 

does bicorn get the graveyard effect?

 

i question because typically searchers still get their effects, even if skilldrain is out. but then skilldrain only specifies the field. however, the negation of bicorn's effect might only pertain to as long as it's alive, because once it's destroyed i don't know if lost star has any sway over it anymore.

[/quote']

 

When Bicorn is destroyed by battle, Bicorn activates on the field. (It will activate after Damage Calculation, before being sent to the Graveyard since it is considered destroyed during Damage Calculation). This is because there is time between "destruction" and "sent to the graveyard by battle" during the Damage Step.

 

When Bicorn is destroyed by a card effect, Its effect will activate in the Graveyard.

 

Descending Lost Star will negate card activations which activate on the field. Therefore, If a Bicorn targeted by with Descending Lost Star is destroyed by battle, you will NOT get its effect, but if it is destroyed by a card effect, it will activate successfully in the Graveyard.

[BDKMRV]

Doesn't Bicorn effect activate during damage step not in the graveyard?

[Tronta]

really? i thought stardust had the same timing as exiled, which activates in the grave?

or is it different because it has to chain to something?

[darkwolf777]

really? i thought stardust had the same timing as exiled' date=' which activates in the grave?

or is it different because it has to chain to something?

[/quote']

 

Understand the difference between where a card "Activates" and where it "Resolves".

 

A card activates where it is used at. Stardust Dragon is used while face-up on the field, Honest activates in the Hand, etc. A card resolves wherever it is when it gets to its effect in the chain. Due to the possibility of cards in a chain that could move the selected card in question, a card can resolve in numerous places.

 

Say for example, You Special Summon Fortune Lady Water while a Fortune Lady is on the field and King Tiger Wanghu is on the field. Fortune Lady Water's effect activates on the field when she is Special Summoned. Now, because Fortune Lady Water is Special Summoned with 1200 ATK, her effect and Wanghu's effect chain together. If Wanghu happens to destroys Water first in the chain, her effect will resolve in the Graveyard then. If Wanghu was not on the field, she would've resolve on the field instead.

 

Stardust Dragon activates on the field. Stardust Dragon resolves in the Graveyard. Stardust Dragon can bypass Skill Drain, but it will be negated by Descending Lost Star.

 

Bicorn, when destroyed by battle, Activates and Resolves on the field (due to the nature of the Damage Step). Skill Drain and Descending Lost Star will negate it.

 

Bicorn, when destroyed by a card effect, Activates and Resolves in the Graveyard. Descending Lost Star and Skill Drain cannot touch it there.

 

Remember, Bicorn's trigger is "When this card is destroyed by your opponent". Going to the Graveyard is not a requirement for its trigger, therefore, its effect will activate immediately after Damage Calculation, not after its sent to the Graveyard by battle. During the Damage Step, DESTRUCTION BY BATTLE occurs during Damage Calculation. A destroyed by battle monster is sent to the Graveyard at the End of the Damage Step.

[ihop]

When Goyo destroys Machina Fortress by battle, and Fortress selects Goyo, can you still steal Fortress?

[Sephiroth_The_Legend]

yes, but they get to destroy a card first.

 

thats how i play it anyway.

no idea if its right.

[darkwolf777]

When Goyo destroys Machina Fortress by battle' date=' and Fortress selects Goyo, can you still steal Fortress?

[/quote']

 

yes' date=' but they get to destroy a card first.

 

thats how i play it anyway.

no idea if its right.

[/quote']

 

Chain order for multiple effects chaining because their timing is the same is always turn player's mandatory effects, then opponent's mandatory effect, then turn player's optional effects, and lastly opponent's optional effects.

 

Goyo Guardian's effect is Optional.

Machina Fortress' effect is Mandatory.

 

Therefore, the Mandatory Effect of your opponent's Machina Fortress is first in the chain, and Goyo Guardian is second.

 

Chain 1: Machina Fortress destroying Goyo Guardian

Chain 2: Goyo Guardian Special Summoning Machina Fortress in Defense Position on your side of the field.

 

Resolving...

 

Chain 2: Machina Fortress is Special Summoned by Goyo Guardian

Chain 1: Machina Fortress destroys Goyo Guardian with its effect.

[ihop]

Either way, you have a Fortress but lose your Goyo, right?

[darkwolf777]

Either way' date=' you have a Fortress but lose your Goyo, right?

[/quote']

 

...Yes, I said that there above (where the effects are resolving). Machina Fortress is Special Summoned before Goyo Guardian is destroyed.

[ihop]

If you tag out into a Glad, having no monsters on the field, and your opponent Rai-Ohs it, can you activate War Chariot?

[darkwolf777]

If you tag out into a Glad' date=' having no monsters on the field, and your opponent Rai-Ohs it, can you activate War Chariot?

[/quote']

 

Edit: Read -Griffin in the next post for the correct answer. I'm not gonna scratch out mine since it is still correct in the case for a Contact Fusion Summoned Gladiator Beast monster x.o

 

You do not control a Gladiator Beast monster until the summon of that Gladiator Beast monster is successful. In this case, you cannot activate War Chariot in response to Thunder King Rai-oh negating the summon of a Gladiator Beast monster that hasn't been successfully summoned yet (since you do not control any GBs at the time).

[-Griffin]

They can't Rai-Oh a Glad tagging out, it's a result of an effect.

If they Rai-Oh a contact-fusion, though, you could not Chariot.

[darkwolf777]

They can't Rai-Oh a Glad tagging out' date=' it's a result of an effect.

If they Rai-Oh a contact-fusion, though, you could not Chariot.

[/quote']

 

Good pointing out, I probably should've realized that sooner lol.

[Professional Duelist]

We should make a seperate sub forum for ruligs srsly. I wanna post stuff like SEGOC

[evilfusion]

Rulings are probably what most people will ask about.

 

What's SEGOC?

[darkwolf777]

Rulings are probably what most people will ask about.

 

What's SEGOC?

 

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/SEGOC

 

Simultaneous Effect Go On Chain. Its what I briefly explained (though didn't use the term) in the Goyo Guardian/Machina Fortress answer. Its apparently different for TCG and OCG, though OCG makes more sense than the way the TCG does it. The TCG rulings make it more complicated than it needs to be.

[Professional Duelist]

SEGOC=Simaltanious Effects Go On Chains

[Mister Sir]

Hypothetical situation: I have a face-up Doomcaliber Knight and my opponent has a face-up Mask of Restrict. They attempt to activate a monster effect.

 

Does Doomcal just stay on the field?

[darkwolf777]

Hypothetical situation: I have a face-up Doomcaliber Knight and my opponent has a face-up Mask of Restrict. They attempt to activate a monster effect.

 

Does Doomcal just stay on the field?

 

Correct. Doomcaliber Knight's effect cannot activate since its cost cannot be paid.

[Expelsword]

I have Stardust/Assault out, and attack his facedown GB

He uses Hedge Guard

I negate

He tries to War Chariot

 

I argued since either:

You need a faceup GB to use it, and if I tribute Stardust, the attack is negated and he never is faceup

 

If your GB is faceup that means its after damage calculation and it is destroyed, so you control NO GBs

 

Can he activate War Chariot like that?

[Professional Duelist]

Monster is sent the graveyard after damage calculation.