Important Sun/Moon Rant

[Snatch Steal]

This could probably go in Video Games, but I feel like this is important enough to put here, and there's already a Sun/Moon thread and it wouldn't be a good idea to textwall.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love all Pokemon, and hate deeming any of them as "unoriginal." It's better work than some people do.

 

But I am really truly pissed off by the recent reveal of the Sun and Moon mascots' data, and I'll be picking apart the trailer to say why.

 

At first, I was really excited by this reveal. I was hyped for the new games, so anything new was cool. Honestly, though, the graphics were the coolest part.

 

Now I'm just pissed off by what GF seems to think we consider quality design. Sure, the graphics are nice, but they really didn't think the mascots through at all.

 

Let's talk about Solgaleo first. For starters, his species is the "Sunne Pokemon." What the funk is a "Sunne?" Come on, guys, Sunne isn't a word. It's a place in Sweden. Pokemon are from Sweden now.

His type is Psychic/Steel. Gee, where have I seen this before? Oh, right, Jirachi and Metagross (who are both from the same generation, mind you). Not to mention that this typing means he's weak to the sun he allegedly swallows.

Oh lord, and the ability..."Full Metal Body," which has the same functionality as "Clear Body?"

They literally took Metagross and pasted him onto a lion. I thought he was gonna be some cool Fire-Type with new stuff that would be really cool, not literally Metagross. 

 

Next, Lunaala, the most SSS name I've heard on a Pokemon, the "Moone" species. It's a Psychic/Ghost (which is not only a really bad typing, but has also already been done before with Hoopa in just the last generation), which makes less sense than being a Fairy-Type, since moon-like moves are given the type. It comes from the moon and it doesn't even have STAB Moonblast? How am I supposed to buy that?

Next, its ability is "Shadow Shield," and we're assuming it's the same as Multiscale, but we really have no idea what it does since they didn't even decide to showcase it.

Unless you speak Japanese.

 

And there's a Rotom in my Pokedex?

Well, shoot, man, why don't I just use that Rotom in battle, get me a nice Wash form? I guess we'll see.

 

So I'm stuck between literally Metagross and literally Hoopa, it seems.

I'm counting on GF to make this game worth it, otherwise I'll be really disappointed.

 

At least the starters weren't that bad.

[Progenitor]

Assuming that this does take place in Hawaii, then Lunaala is a representation of the Moon Goddess Hina.

In Hawaiian and New Zeland Mythos, Hina had two personalities: Hinatea (Fair Hina; Full Moon) and Hinauri (Dark Hina; New Moon).

Lunaala's typing is Psychic Ghost, representing Hina's two phases that changed with the different phases of the moon. Note that the two phases of Hina were NOT Good vs Evil. It was from an emotional context. Fair Hina had a personality of what one might expect from a Noble: Refined, courteous, and beautiful. When Hina became Hinauri, she became almost the exact opposite. Gloomy, brooding, unkempt. She lived in isolation. This is why the typing is Psychic-Ghost and NOT Fairy-Dark.

 

Now Solgeleo is a bit more difficult. It's either referring to Ku, God of the rising sun and War, husband of Hina, OR Kane the creator God. Ku makes much more sense due to his relation to Hina, but the typing throws me off a bit. But maybe the typing does make sense. Idk Hawaiian Mythos is hard to find I detail.

 

But anyway this is CERTAINLY not uninspired. Uncreative? Maybe. But it's certainly inspired

[Snatch Steal]

Assuming that this does take place in Hawaii, then Lunaala is a representation of the Moon Goddess Hina.

In Hawaiian and New Zeland Mythos, Hina had two personalities: Hinatea (Fair Hina; Full Moon) and Hinauri (Dark Hina; New Moon).

Lunaala's typing is Psychic Ghost, representing Hina's two phases that changed with the different phases of the moon. Note that the two phases of Hina were NOT Good vs Evil. It was from an emotional context. Fair Hina had a personality of what one might expect from a Noble: Refined, courteous, and beautiful. When Hina became Hinauri, she became almost the exact opposite. Gloomy, brooding, unkempt. She lived in isolation. This is why the typing is Psychic-Ghost and NOT Fairy-Dark.

 

Now Solgeleo is a bit more difficult. It's either referring to Ku, God of the rising sun and War, husband of Hina, OR Kane the creator God. Ku makes much more sense due to his relation to Hina, but the typing throws me off a bit. But maybe the typing does make sense. Idk Hawaiian Mythos is hard to find I detail.

 

But anyway this is CERTAINLY not uninspired. Uncreative? Maybe. But it's certainly inspired

 

They still copypasted. They could have at least made a little deviation from Metagross with Solgaleo, while they didn't. As far as we know, they're the exact same thing. Also, Solgaleo looks nothing like a steel/psychic. Lunaala is definitely fitting, but we already have a ghost/psychic, and we know how terrible that typing is, even if you're a cover legendary with 600 BST. It even has the same **mAgIcAl** stuff going on that Hoopa does. If they wanted to make him like Ku, they could have made him Fire/Steel, Fire/Rock, or, heck, Fairy/Steel, since Fairy has a connection to Light. Psychic does have the cosmic aspect, and Steel has the military aspect, but putting them together and giving it an ability that has the same functionality as a Pokemon with the same type...it's not cool.

 

Mega Gardevoir takes up a much larger dress-like appendage than its base form and gains the Pixilate ability, emphasizing its Fairy-type. Additionally, Sylveon features bows and ribbons. Might one assume that nobility could be reserved for Fairies? I mean, look at Hypno, Jynx, Exeggcute, Meowstic, Swoobat, and Xatu, just to name a few, in comparison to Gardevoir, Sylveon, Aromatisse, Florges, Diancie, and Magearna. 

Also, couldn't "unkempt" be considered evil in some ways, as the Evil Type in Japan? 

Dark/Fairy might not be AS logical, but it still is logical, a better type, and more unique. 

[Progenitor]

I meant unkempt in appearance. Like disheveled.

Also from what I've read Ku wasn't the nicest of fellows. I mean he wasn't evil or anything but he wasn't particularly kind either. Psychic is a kind of Lawful Neutral mentality while Fairy is definitely more Lawful Good.

 

In that same vein Ghost is more Chaotic Neutral, while Dark is generally Chaotic Evil.

 

They typing might not be unique, but changing them to unique requires the forcing of unfaithful representation. I'm sure most Hawaiians and other island nations who share the same Mythos would not be happy about that. To me solid lore is better than unique typing. Besides they're legendaries. You can't use them in competative anyway since no one plays ubers

[Snatch Steal]

I meant unkempt in appearance. Like disheveled.

Also from what I've read Ku wasn't the nicest of fellows. I mean he wasn't evil or anything but he wasn't particularly kind either. Psychic is a kind of Lawful Neutral mentality while Fairy is definitely more Lawful Good.

 

In that same vein Ghost is more Chaotic Neutral, while Dark is generally Chaotic Evil.

 

They typing might not be unique, but changing them to unique requires the forcing of unfaithful representation. I'm sure most Hawaiians and other island nations who share the same Mythos would not be happy about that. To me solid lore is better than unique typing. Besides they're legendaries. You can't use them in competative anyway since no one plays ubers

 

>balanced hackmons

 

Ok, so I guess the types have to stay, but why did they have to give Solgaleo an ability that's exactly the same as a previous pokemon with the same type? Honestly, Intimidate would have been better than this, and could have gone along with the lore.

And this still doesn't explain the whole "Moone" and "Sunne" Species. That's just bullshit.

[~~~~]

I still don't understand why Solgaleo wasn't wasn't Fire. And I agree about its ability being downright useless as well as a Metagross clone. Now I like Metagross, but a lion version??? Idgi. Lunalalala should have been Ghost/Fairy imo. Not getting STAB Moonlight seems really stupid imo.

[Nicο]

Wow that typing. I would have to try way too hard to not look in statuses to not eventually get spoiled, so here I am. I'm not knowledgeable on these particular myths (or most, actually), but that thing certainly looks waaaaaay too far removed from the type it actually is. Anyway, a quick Google search very easily allowed me to find out that "Sunne" and "Moone" actually are words. Well, obsolete spellings of sun and moon, but nevertheless they existed. Which is of course nice to see legendaries that probably have been around for a while (I don't know things. What I saw in the OP and a bit of stuff is all I know about the 2 of them, but as most legendaries have, I would assume so) using. At least, I think so.

[Snatch Steal]

Wow that typing. I would have to try way too hard to not look in statuses to not eventually get spoiled, so here I am. I'm not knowledgeable on these particular myths (or most, actually), but that thing certainly looks waaaaaay too far removed from the type it actually is. Anyway, a quick Google search very easily allowed me to find out that "Sunne" and "Moone" actually are words. Well, obsolete spellings of sun and moon, but nevertheless they existed. Which is of course nice to see legendaries that probably have been around for a while (I don't know things. What I saw in the OP and a bit of stuff is all I know about the 2 of them, but as most legendaries have, I would assume so) using. At least, I think so.

 

Well, I don't know that we have a "Sun" or "Moon" Pokemon, including Lunatone and Solrock (they're the Meteor Pokemon), so they probably could have just called them something different. "Cosmic Metal" or "Cosmic Shadow" could have worked as species, since the psychic type obviously amplifies how they represent celestial bodies.

 

...although maybe I need to ask myself why the Species matters.

[Tourmaline]

I knew I was a goddess this whole time.

[Kazooie]

..although maybe I need to ask myself why the Species matters.

 

You absolutely do.

 

The only really valid complaint here is the ability stuff, and even then it's nothing new.

 

With the typing stuff, Cover Legendaries didn't start having "Unique" typings until Gen 4.

 

Lugia shared the typing of Natu/Xatu in it's generation. Ho-oh had the same Typing as Charizard and Moltres from Generation 1.

 

Kyogre was a pure Water type. We had about 36 different PURE Water types during Generation 3. That's not counting the dual typings. Groudon was pure Ground, also not an uncommon typing.

 

It wasn't until Gen 4 that we got a Cover Legendary that had a Unique typing at the time, that being Dialga and later Giratina when Platinum was released.

 

Gen 5 had unique Typings once again, with Dragon/Electric and Dragon/Fire. Funny enough, both of these types stayed unique in Gen 6 with the exception of Mega Evolutions with Mega Amphy and Mega Charizard X.

 

Gen 6 had a pure Fairy cover Legend, not unique considering the gen it debuted in, and a Dark/Flying cover Legend.

 

I mean, you can complain that there's already a LEGEND of that type, sure, but... Most cover legends aren't really unique in typing. The only ones that are would be Giratina, Dialga, and the Yin-Yang duo.

[Snatch Steal]

You absolutely do.

 

The only really valid complaint here is the ability stuff, and even then it's nothing new.

 

With the typing stuff, Cover Legendaries didn't start having "Unique" typings until Gen 4.

 

Lugia shared the typing of Natu/Xatu in it's generation. Ho-oh had the same Typing as Charizard and Moltres from Generation 1.

 

Kyogre was a pure Water type. We had about 36 different PURE Water types during Generation 3. That's not counting the dual typings. Groudon was pure Ground, also not an uncommon typing.

 

It wasn't until Gen 4 that we got a Cover Legendary that had a Unique typing at the time, that being Dialga and later Giratina when Platinum was released.

 

Gen 5 had unique Typings once again, with Dragon/Electric and Dragon/Fire. Funny enough, both of these types stayed unique in Gen 6 with the exception of Mega Evolutions with Mega Amphy and Mega Charizard X.

 

Gen 6 had a pure Fairy cover Legend, not unique considering the gen it debuted in, and a Dark/Flying cover Legend.

 

I mean, you can complain that there's already a LEGEND of that type, sure, but... Most cover legends aren't really unique in typing. The only ones that are would be Giratina, Dialga, and the Yin-Yang duo.

 

Well, yes, but there are much fewer Pokemon with the typing Solgaleo has, it doesn't make much sense as a type, and its ability is the exact same as a mon of the exact same type. This is slightly okay in and of itself, but the thing is, they decided to rename it just for the purpose of making it """different"""

 

Lugia is kind of stupid and this late in the game we should be past those kinds of decisions. Past mistakes aren't a reason to make them again. 

 

It's not so much that the type isn't unique as it's oxymoronic (in solgaleo's case) and that he seems to be the same thing as something we've seen before without enough differences to compensate. It's supposed to be of the sun, which is renowned as extremely hot, but it's a Steel-type, so it melts in the sun's heat?

 

Lunaala is a bit better, because they made it a little unique, and there's only one other ghost/psychic. But, like you said, if it's between Legendaries, it's more of an issue, and this was a Legendary made just in the last half of the Generation. 

[Pchi]

Game Freak likes to put obscure references in their games, so there must be some sort of reasoning behind their typing - we just didn't figure it out yet, and we may not be able to do so until the Sun & Moon are released. You must also bear in mind that they come from a completely different culture from ours, so what might seem logical to them might not be to us, and vice-versa. But one thing is certain: GF NEVER does things randomly.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

It's not so much that the type isn't unique as it's oxymoronic (in solgaleo's case) and that he seems to be the same thing as something we've seen before without enough differences to compensate. It's supposed to be of the sun, which is renowned as extremely hot, but it's a Steel-type, so it melts in the sun's heat?

Ever think that was the point? There could very well be a reason. They obviously know Steel is weak to Fire after all, they're the ones who made it that way.

I'm gonna laugh so hard if they reveal the abilities actually have another aspect to them.

 

Though I just realized this wasn't in the SM topic. Weird.

[Pchi]

So, it seems Agro has found your answer, @Snatch Steal:

 

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/348407-pokemon-sun-moon/page-38?do=findComment&comment=6879314

 

Oh by the way. Maybe I wasn't that far off from the Fullmetal Alchemist reference.
 

 
Lion swallowing the sun is a common alchemical image.

"In alchemic and Hermetic traditions, suns are employed to symbolize a variety of concepts, much like the sun in astrology. Suns can correspond to gold, citrinitas, generative masculine principles, imagery of 'the king' or Apollo, the fiery spirit or sulfur, the divine spark in man, nobility, or incorruptibility. Recurring images of specific solar motifs can be found in the form of a "Dark" or "Black Sun", or a green lion devouring a sun."
 

 

"The Green Lion Devouring The Sun' is a popular alchemical symbol. On a chemical level this is a metaphor for when a green, liquid sulfate called “vitriol” purifies matter, leaving behind the gold within the matter. Very pure vitriol is an acid that eats through practically anything, except gold."
 
So it's Psychic/Steel because it is LITERALLY MADE OF GOLD.
 
Which would mean that Lunala, as the moon, is related to Silver. Harder to really talk about it but here's some stuff:
 
"From Roman times onward, silver was purported to repel or even kill demons. This belief carried into the Middle Ages, where it was believed demons, witches, and other evil creatures could be killed with silver bolts or bullets. This is also the origination of the vampire trope whereby the creatures cannot be reflected in mirrors- being a pure metal, silver objects and silver-backed mirrors could not reflect impurity."
 
Idk tbh. There's not as much about the moon that I can find so quickly.

[Snatch Steal]

Well, I've been savaged.

 

On the bright side, this makes me feel a lot better about their designs. I still don't appreciate Full Metal Body, but I'm sure it'll grow on me just like Popplio.

[Flame Dragon]

I'm just going to point out that this really should have been in the Sun/Moon thread. Nothing here would have been out of place there.

 

Also, with each generation it gets harder and harder to have a truly unique type since each gen will use more and more of the unused types. And your acting like legendary Pokemon having reused abilities is new. Pressure is SUPER common on them. The Gen 5 covers both have a renamed Mold Breaker.

 

Anyway, I would merge this into the Sun/Moon thread but that would cause issues with how the posts are displayed. As such I'm going to lock this. If you want to talk more about this your free to do so in that thread.