Elder God Norden

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

1 Synchro or Xyz Monster + 1 Synchro or Xyz Monster When this card is Special Summoned: You can target 1 Level 4 or lower monster in your Graveyard; Special Summon it, but its effects are negated, also banish it when this card leaves the field.

 

So we all know about this jabroni and his horseboat by now. History lesson.

 

Came out in Korea 3 years ago

 

Jeez 2013 was three years ago

 

Was part of an infamous FTK with Valon Cube and Fusion gate. Came to OCG in September 2014

 

And some of us remember the nightmare weeks where OCG Star Seraph Shaddolls had triple IF and Triple Super Poly. Dark times.

 

The banlist saved the OCG, and Star Dolls were vanquished. Dolls limped onward with Super Poly and IF being ways into this dude. Heros started to abuse triple IF due to D-Dude turbo and make t1 shock law easily and having a strong end game. Nekroz became dumb with Dweller

 

Then the Jan list dropped, Sups and IF went to one. Symbol of Heritage went to 1, so the FTK that was topping died. You still could do it, but it was a lot harder. Impossible with one iirc

 

Heroes still played it (until it started to go out of favor / kinda alternated with Soul Charge in late June/July). But nobody really played Heros in the Envoy-DMD format. Still no release in TCG

 

Atlanteans benefited the most out of it cause of the Norden/Goons play into Dweller, but it was an easy rank 4 for most people. And the three best rank 4's Shock, Ptolo, and Chain were still legal at the time.

 

April list drops, Nekroz get the 2nd hammer, Dolls are killed, Heros become good again. So Atlantean-Heros-Nekroz establish a trifecta, Nekroz drop IF, but Norden still becomes as close to a universal purple as we've seen since 2005

 

July list = no change

 

Noden picks up again, but this time due to PEPE. The easiest out to Shock-Infinity was Super Poly. And an out we badly needed. It seemed to be a positive force tbh

 

Noden gets banned in OCG as IF goes to 3, just as it comes out in TCG

 

People jabroni about it in TCG, but it never saw as much play as in OCG till that one bloke won with a Noden pepe build? Something like that.

 

Got limited in the April 2016 list after close to 7 months of neglect.

 

That all aside, Black's recent post had me thinking, did this really merit a ban in OCG? Or was TCG wrong on only limiting it.

 

Limits kill the ftk's.

 

The really stupid rank 4's shock and ptolo are gone. 

 

(I will never ever ever say Chain, bite me)

 

Sups was largely seen as a benevolent force to curb the xyz spam and Ignistering 

 

Azzathoth was likely what killed this (and ptolo), but how often are you likely to be able to get a lv 4 synchro off nordens effect? 

 

And running 3 IF (and maybe 1 sups) for 1 Noden (and maybe TER) seems wasteful. Some decks might, but at that point I'd just give it to them. Granted OCG has Reborn, Sups, and Avarice over TCG, but it seems like a frustration ban

 

Asking mostly cause of all the OCG bans (excluding Plushfire) this one felt the most "wrong" 

 

Anyway discuss

[Expelsword]

Instant Fusion is the problem, not this.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Instant Fusion is the problem, not this.

Yeh, the litmus test is will Noden see play without IF, cause IF is def seeing play without Noden (granted TER is an additional variable)

 

1113 is the best ratio imo

[Maeriberii Haan]

screw balance tbh.

 

Norden brings a lot of interesting things to the table so I honestly like 3-3 for it and IF.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

screw balance tbh.

 

Norden brings a lot of interesting things to the table so I honestly like 3-3 for it and IF.

DDT was a gay deck. Multiple Rafflesia Dweller Law is dumb still.

 

1 IF cause it's problematic design on its own

1 Noden cause it's the best place for the game outside of banned

1 Sups for obv reason

3 TER cause holy funk who'd use more than one

 

(This is from a balance standpoint)

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

screw balance tbh.

this is the best post.

[Toffee.]

this is the best post.

Should tots add Restrict, while were at it :^)

[Kaiji]

The amount if stigma this card has attached to it is hilarious and it's bad enough that most if it came from awful Tainted Wisdom FTK videos (or just YouTube in general)

 

It's definitely bad design from the context of when it was revealed (iirc it was during DRGL format) when games were much slower with emphasis on the Normal Summon and Dweller was such an important card in match ups; nowadays it's basically a dire wolf or castel or lightning ie a 1 card problem solver that could double as a secondary combo piece

damn Kozmemes ruining TER career

[Expelsword]

To elaborate, anyone who legitimately makes this deserves the effect, and Elder Gods are already a joke deck; there's no need to punish them.

 

The issue is this card's interaction with Instant Fusion turns it into "Pay 1000 Life Points; Synchro Summon 1 Level X Synchro Monster or Rank 4 Xyz Monster from your Extra Deck" Which is much, much too large of a toolbox for one card. Though I've never subscribed to Life being as "worthless" as others, 1000 for that effect is an absolute steal.

 

Instant Fusion is also a proper Fusion Summon, so if you want, you can summon it again and again with, say, Call of the Haunted for more of the same. It would be much more palatable if you actually had to expend any effort to get him out.

 

TER is also only limited because of IF. No one is going to use Thousand Eyes Idol and Polymerization, and even if Relinquished is a passable Ritual, it can still wind up dead drawing you.

[Catman25]

I feel like Norden is like Dark Law when it came to TCG, it's good but its impact is much less than everyone thought it'd be. The amount of time a second Norden comes up is pretty rare as far as I've seen

[TF2_The_Scout]

I didn't know this card had an FTK with Valon Cube and Fusion Gate. How did it work?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Oh, I forgot, OCG also limited Blaze Fenix that list, Fenix, Symbol and IF were the limits to hit the deck

 

[~~~~]

I didn't know this card had an FTK with Valon Cube and Fusion Gate. How did it work?

The main combo is getting Vylon Cube in the Graveyard and then Summoning Norden to revive Cube. Synchro Summon AFD and use Cube's effect to search Re-Fusion. AFD can then pop Chicken Game and search another or Fusion Gate. Loop that. Fusion Gate can banish Synchros to make more Nordens. Once you get 3 Nordens in Grave, you can search symbol of heritage with Cube. etc

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

The amount if stigma this card has attached to it is hilarious and it's bad enough that most if it came from awful Tainted Wisdom FTK videos (or just YouTube in general)

 

It's definitely bad design from the context of when it was revealed (iirc it was during DRGL format) when games were much slower with emphasis on the Normal Summon and Dweller was such an important card in match ups; nowadays it's basically a dire wolf or castel or lightning ie a 1 card problem solver that could double as a secondary combo piece

damn Kozmemes ruining TER career

Well, the initial FTK dies out after the January 2015 list, and certainly wouldn't be viable now that chain is gone too.

 

I think, like I said above, that it was a mix of Azz being released and making stuff like Shock too easy to do (on OCG's part).

 

Not entirely sure why it got limited in TCG, cause it never seemed like it was being abused that much. 

 

I'll be interested to see how TCG deals with it when Azz becomes legal though

 

Out of curiosity, where do you think the proper position for the 4 are?

[Kaiji]

Well, the initial FTK dies out after the January 2015 list, and certainly wouldn't be viable now that chain is gone too.

 

I think, like I said above, that it was a mix of Azz being released and making stuff like Shock too easy to do (on OCG's part).

 

Not entirely sure why it got limited in TCG, cause it never seemed like it was being abused that much. 

 

I'll be interested to see how TCG deals with it when Azz becomes legal though

 

Out of curiosity, where do you think the proper position for the 4 are?

The limit changed nothing, 1 Norden 3 Instant was usually correct anyway as games don't last long enough for you to be able to resolve the 2nd Norden. The hit basically existed to appease people who had the "Norden stigma" and/or look like CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANGE was happening

 

Blaze Fenix FTK was very real which I get, I was referring to the other dumb meme FTKs like the Ceolecanth one.

 

Re: Azza/shock memester that seems like the case post Fenix limit + Pepe had their Ignister Trapeze boards they could pair w/Instant giving them free Azza/Dweller and ofc Shock. I don't think Nyarla ---> Azzathoth for free in TCG is anything "problematic" its basically another copy of dweller with a wider range and better stats (gg Kozmemes? Sorta it does force out pilot banishes and Ignores dark lady in fact if you can make a rank 4 without triggering an eff you can shut down most boards that include crystal/infinity/siegfried/darklady); Ptolo is gone so there's no need to worry about the card skipping your opp's turn so you can OTK the following turn.

 

The proper position of the 4?

If you mean Instant, Norden, Chain and Shock then:

-3

-At least 1 copy 

-At least 1 copy

-SHOCK MEMESTER should probably stay at 0 (but I won't do a spittake if it does come back)

 

There is definitely bias because of some particular pet decks and I absolutely hate being limited to a Normal Summon. Though with the direction this game is headed with big nigs with scary effs to go second versus, you probably need a generic way to not lose your footing or bait out negation.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

The limit changed nothing, 1 Norden 3 Instant was usually correct anyway as games don't last long enough for you to be able to resolve the 2nd Norden. The hit basically existed to appease people who had the "Norden stigma" and/or look like CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANGE was happening

 

Blaze Fenix FTK was very real which I get, I was referring to the other dumb meme FTKs like the Ceolecanth one.

 

Re: Azza/shock memester that seems like the case post Fenix limit + Pepe had their Ignister Trapeze boards they could pair w/Instant giving them free Azza/Dweller and ofc Shock. I don't think Nyarla ---> Azzathoth for free in TCG is anything "problematic" its basically another copy of dweller with a wider range and better stats (gg Kozmemes? Sorta it does force out pilot banishes and Ignores dark lady in fact if you can make a rank 4 without triggering an eff you can shut down most boards that include crystal/infinity/siegfried/darklady); Ptolo is gone so there's no need to worry about the card skipping your opp's turn so you can OTK the following turn.

 

The proper position of the 4?

If you mean Instant, Norden, Chain and Shock then:

-3

-At least 1 copy

-At least 1 copy

-SHOCK MEMESTER should probably stay at 0 (but I won't do a spittake if it does come back)

 

I was thinking 1113 cause, Nobody is gonna summon TER the right way, so multiples in your ED with a limited IF is stilly. Also if you burn your IF on noden you might have a dead TER and Sups. It basically seems to balance well. Atleast in OCG TER does see occasional play, mutiple IF with multiple targets (Norden, blanks, TER) just bothers me a bit

 

There is definitely bias because of some particular pet decks and I absolutely hate being limited to a Normal Summon. Though with the direction this game is headed with big nigs with scary effs to go second versus, you probably need a generic way to not lose your footing or bait out negation.

Didn't even know there was a fish FTK TBQH.

 

Hmm, fair point on Azz, but it coincided exactly with BA's release in OCG. Might not have been as much of a logic push as a $$ push. (Not that PEPE was really struggling with BA)

 

Bodes poorly for OCG though cause Kozmo come out in September and it does force their hand a bit as you noted.

 

One thing, Nyara pretty much telegraphs what you're gonna do, so chaining a pilot on Nyarla's summon is an easy out for Kozmo. Honestly, Phantom Abyss with the rank up seem more dangerous to Kozmo w/ regards to Azz over Norden cute plays

 

 

I was actually thinking

 

Instant

Norden

Super Poly

TER

 

Though, I would love to have 1 chain. Don't want shock, but I wouldn't cry too much over him being freed

 

The problem with that stance is that the new decks with more than just the normal ceiling can ALSO use noden, in theory it would support everyone, not just the slower decks who only have access to a normal

 

I dunno. After the obvious shitty two (goyo and MoF) Norden is my biggest want back. I guess we'll know in three weeks haha

[The Nyx Avatar]

This card was a nice card to use in my Masked HERO build. And with setting up Xyz plays, it triggered Shadow Mist's effect. Though, with it at 1, should I remove some Instant Fusions, or keep them in the Deck for consistency?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

This card was a nice card to use in my Masked HERO build. And with setting up Xyz plays, it triggered Shadow Mist's effect. Though, with it at 1, should I remove some Instant Fusions, or keep them in the Deck for consistency?

Apperently TCG games end too soon. Playing Gusto was what we did in OCG

 

(2/3 ratio) so maybe a (1/2)

[goodfusion]

I love it why my opponent Solemns my Number 37 and I just ressurect Norden and make another Xyz. I would be really sad to see Norden go to 0 TCG-side as I like it in Cloudians.

[The Nyx Avatar]

Apperently TCG games end too soon. Playing Gusto was what we did in OCG

 

(2/3 ratio) so maybe a (1/2)

I miss Gusto.

 

Kind of like Gem-Knight Garnet?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I miss Gusto.

Kind of like Gem-Knight Garnet?

Daigusto?

[The Nyx Avatar]

Daigusto?

No; I mean the ratio of Instant Fusion that you suggested is similar to the suggested ration for Garnet in a Deck with Brilliant Fusion.

[Tinkerer]

I dunno, I don't think I ever played Norden above 2.. Any deck that I used it in I simply replaced the second copy with T-E Restrict and kept the 3 IF.