Blake Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 >2016>People still try to Raigeki this/other Majespecters Also hilarious next to Vortex Rafflesia, and moreso if you manage to get Odd-Eyes Persona next to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
玄魔の王 Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 Also hilarious is when I have to explain to people that it can't bounce Scales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neochu-H Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 i never actually pendulum summon kirin, I always tribute summon it.... is that bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted May 18, 2016 Report Share Posted May 18, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Yeah yeah, that's how Shaddolls can counter it.Kirin is still a very solid card though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hexanort Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 the only card in game that i hate so much i cant bring myself to run even if i used deck that can utilize it......its a recurring pleaides with protection, sure it can be worked around, but it takes resource and baiting not to mention the deck that run this also run a lot of counters making it even harder to fight off, not to mention it can recycle/save your other monster in addition of having good scale, seriously this card has everything i supposed this isn't a problem card competitively, but i just feel this is so unfair as a standalone card... at least remove the protection... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Yeah yeah, that's how Shaddolls can counter it.Kirin is still a very solid card though. Is the OCG way. But guess TCG saw Wavering to be stronger than Monkey? Guess it doesn't matter, Kirin isn't big in TCG like in OCG afaik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCR_CAT Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 ＢＡＮ ＴＨＩＳ ＳＩＣＫ ＦＩＬＴＨ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 ＢＡＮ ＴＨＩＳ ＳＩＣＫ ＦＩＬＴＨ Is it really so hard to find ways around it? WE/Rektor is such an easy way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCR_CAT Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Is it really so hard to find ways around it? WE/Rektor is such an easy way If I could actually TARGET IT, then it wouldn't be such a huge pain the ass. Unless you got a Solemn on hand, there's no way to really answer it and if you're running a deck that's all "Hey dude, I kinda like my Normal Summon mmkay, I do need to set some plays up", then seeing this hit the field is pretty much a scoop-phase; it's such an unfair card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 If I could actually TARGET IT, then it wouldn't be such a huge pain the ass. Unless you got a Solemn on hand, there's no way to really answer it and if you're running a deck that's all "Hey dude, I kinda like my Normal Summon mmkay, I do need to set some plays up", then seeing this hit the field is pretty much a scoop-phase; it's such an unfair card.Bait and Kill mate It's not bad YGO to sacrifice something Like a winda to MP2 Trish the jabroni (is Kirin a chick?) or summon Clear Wing etc I understand not everyone has.a Shikenaga, but most deck that don't either have quick-play baiters like spirit dragon or a high enough ceiling to not be affected like phantom abyss It's a good card and one that's annoying when they have three copies to use at leasure, but I don't see why we can't test it and bunbun out at 1 (yes Majespecter even w/o Kirin is topping OCG side) Like it's really not hard to side in Rektor and rek kirin Edit: If you say I have wavering eyes over you, you have Kozmo over me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCR_CAT Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Bait and Kill mate I understand not everyone has.a Shikenaga, but most deck that don't either have quick-play baiters like spirit dragon or a high enough ceiling to not be affected like phantom abyss It's a good card and one that's annoying when they have three copies to use at leasure, but I don't see why we can't test it and bunbun out at 1 (yes Majespecter even w/o Kirin is topping OCG side) The key words here are "Normal Summon". If I'm playing Trains, my only real bait avenue is Machina Fortress (although let's be honest; he's a fantastic bait card), and while it's great if they target it, it's not always the smartest move for me to summon that. And not only that, Kirin is one card; it's not like Infinity or even Quasar (frick I do not want to use that as an example in the Year of our Lord 2016) where the opponent actually has to use at least a significant amount of resources to get it out; it's Kirin. You Pendulum Summon him, and then use the Solemn Strikes everyone opens with. And seriously, the no-target-no-destroy is what really chaps my ass about this stupid thing. It's not like either of those cards above where a large avenue of generic Spells or Traps easily takes care of it; all you can do is monsters, and you reach into Magnus territory where a smart player knows to only hit what they know will hurt most, or rather, only hit that which is actually a threat in either a potential play or in itself. What I'm trying to say is, I really wish there was a way to actually play around this, rather then "Well, I gotta get hit, so let's see if I can trick them into hitting the wrong thing." And if you're not playing a deck that doesn't care about key summons, like I said, this card becomes the scoop phase. Just ban it; I don't care about the consistency engine or w/e; it's a disgustingly unfair card, so just kill that sick filth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 The key words here are "Normal Summon". If I'm playing Trains, my only real bait avenue is Machina Fortress (although let's be honest; he's a fantastic bait card), and while it's great if they target it, it's not always the smartest move for me to summon that. And not only that, Kirin is one card; it's not like Infinity or even Quasar (frick I do not want to use that as an example in the Year of our Lord 2016) where the opponent actually has to use at least a significant amount of resources to get it out; it's Kirin. You Pendulum Summon him, and then use the Solemn Strikes everyone opens with. And seriously, the no-target-no-destroy is what really chaps my ass about this stupid thing. It's not like either of those cards above where a large avenue of generic Spells or Traps easily takes care of it; all you can do is monsters, and you reach into Magnus territory where a smart player knows to only hit what they know will hurt most, or rather, only hit that which is actually a threat in either a potential play or in itself.Endless? Point taken that this stream of anti-castel anti-hold is annoying, but I dunno if that makes Kirin banworthy Hell blue eyes got creative with Skill Drain. Think outside the box Trains can run Drain and L1T (less so, but still) can't they? Kirin makes my Dolls have a tough time, but I find outs, which is the healthy way to play YGO. It's 2016, if the normal is your ceiling/lynchpin you're gonna have bigger problems than Kirin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VCR_CAT Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Endless? Point taken that this stream of anti-castel anti-hold is annoying, but I dunno if that makes Kirin banworthy Hell blue eyes got creative with Skill Drain. Think outside the box Trains can run Drain and L1T (less so, but still) can't they? Kirin makes my Dolls have a tough time, but I find outs, which is the healthy way to play YGO. It's 2016, if the normal is your ceiling/lynchpin you're gonna have bigger problems than Kirin Skill Drain is a limited card, and I very much dislike the idea of running a limited card as my only optimal out to a card that's both searchable and ran at 3. This isn't so much of Skill Drain being bad or not, it's from a deckbuilding perspective that I would rather have a strategy or a very generic and accessible means of dealing with something so I don't need to rely on a 1-in-40 chance that I'll be able to deal with something. Beyond that, floodgates are something that I, otherwise, make an effort not to run and try to make my builds as good as possible without. This isn't me saying anything about their quality of impact, but it's more or less a personal stance on how I build my decks and want to play the game. The thing is, I'm very much in favor of cards that offer a challenge to out for decks, and that is healthy for the game; the idea of pushing decks to get around different situations. The problem is, for this to work, there needs to be counter strategies easily accessible in a lot of situations. Player interaction, after all, is partially rooted in forcing a player to change how they play in faces of different situations; they just need ways to change into those plays. Considering that Kirin is extremely difficult to actually play around (You can't just chain a Chalice and be on your merry way), the number of means to counter it become painfully few, and if a deck is forced to spend a turn setting up their counters in the form of Solemns because they went second and weren't lucky to open with the ability to do two plays in a turn (one to waste, the other to go through with), then that single turn has set them back too far in the face of a pendulum deck and they might as well give up. And this isn't even just a case of the normal summon being a lynchpin for Trains or not (although it's worth acknowledging that it's very important for the deck if you don't draw into a Special Schedule); it just goes into a broader issue that the game is steadily re-entering the territory of a player being able to win simply by going first. With how many easily accessible and very powerful disruption cards a player has access to, such as Rafflesia, Solemn Strike, and ones as impossible for many decks to actually play around as Kirin, there's too many avenues for a player to be able to go first and prevent the opponent from actually doing anything. Pushing a player outside their comfort zone is good for Yugioh, but keeping them from playing the game because there's a powerful form of disruption they can't answer isn't. If Kirin didn't have such powerful protection, then so many decks and players would actually have a chance against this stupid thing. But, seeing as it's a very well-shielded form of quick-play NDR that can be summoned for free and recurs every turn even if you do actually manage to kill it and get something on the field? No, no. Kill this stupid card and never let it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellringer Angel Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 ＢＡＮ ＴＨＩＳ ＳＩＣＫ ＦＩＬＴＨ I AGREE Baiting the card isn't actually that hard, but it can funking come back again (via Pendulum Summoning) if you can't OTK the opponent (which you probably wasted a considerable amount of resources, resulting you to be unable to OTK, unless you play Mermail/Atlanteans). #BanKirin or at least #LimitKirin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Highlander Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Endless? Point taken that this stream of anti-castel anti-hold is annoying, but I dunno if that makes Kirin banworthy Hell blue eyes got creative with Skill Drain. Think outside the box Trains can run Drain and L1T (less so, but still) can't they? Kirin makes my Dolls have a tough time, but I find outs, which is the healthy way to play YGO. It's 2016, if the normal is your ceiling/lynchpin you're gonna have bigger problems than Kirin True, I am also (with the same reasoning) wondering why we cannot have imperial order back ... you can main dust tornado or even chain mst, right ? So it is definitely not banworthy at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 True, I am also (with the same reasoning) wondering why we cannot have imperial order back ... you can main dust tornado or even chain mst, right ? So it is definitely not banworthy at all.Imperial order fails the bait test If it hard OPT negated a spell, sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Highlander Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Imperial order fails the bait test If it hard OPT negated a spell, sure I am not talking about a version, which shows attempts of trying to balance it. The card is a bit too oppressive for my taste with too little investment to get to that point and specific counters exist for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 I am not talking about a version, which shows attempts of trying to balance it. The card is a bit too oppressive for my taste.Well you can bait Kirin You can't really reactive bait Imperial order, it's not a one negate card like Kirin is a one bounce (with a hard OPt) The comparison isn't entirely fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Highlander Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Well you can bait Kirin You can't really reactive bait Imperial order, it's not a one negate card like Kirin is a one bounce (with a hard OPt) The comparison isn't entirely fair Both are oppressive cards, which only require an one card investment and are difficult to properly deal with, unless you specifically prepare for them and furthermore draw these cards. Granted I exaggerated a bit with imperial order, however counters do not justify cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitor Posted May 19, 2016 Report Share Posted May 19, 2016 Honestly this card can go die in a ditch for all I care. It's funking stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nyx Avatar Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 I still find it funny how this is a Majespecter card, yet they don't even need it to win. I usually just end up using it as one of my Scales, as I have no other Scale 2 monsters in my hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted May 20, 2016 Report Share Posted May 20, 2016 Both are oppressive cards, which only require an one card investment and are difficult to properly deal with, unless you specifically prepare for them and furthermore draw these cards. Granted I exaggerated a bit with imperial order, however counters do not justify cards.That's not at all what I'm talking about The Bait test is: Can you reasonably bait the effect of a card, and still have a follow up play that turn You can bait Kirin (summon something with over 2k for example) You cannot bait Imperial Order You cannot reasonably bait Royal Oppression cause a ceiling of 8 potent ss's is something that hasn't happened yet Kirin isn't Oppression or Order, or comparable. Counters don't justify a card is fanciful theory that's blown out of proportion cause idiots like to say veiler justifies something like Scientist This is not to say that Kirin isn't an annoying jabroni, but so are a sheet ton of other cards. Annoyingness do not warrant the TCG 3->0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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