[INOV] Starve Venom Fusion Dragon

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Super Poly is a great side card vs Metals as Metalphosis+X is basically the equation you're looking (easy Kirin out that Exterio cannot stop)

 

It's looking even better cause you can keep it in vs all three meta decks now.

 

FHD vs Blue Eyes and now starve vs Phantom Abyss.

 

PA can't really float if they aren't on the field (yes I'm aware they can banish to grab Traps/rank up)

 

If you eat two phantoms Knight to make a starve, not only do you get a + off the discard (Blue Eyes or PA), but you now also set your opponents field presence back.

 

What people are missing, I think, is PA typically go Dante first, then establish a Break. But the nice part is you have an easy way to beat over Dante's ass (or force them into Beatrice) without relying on activating effects like Break or Alternate (think Strike)

 

I however don't really see the "deeper pit" that this dug in TCG. TCG hasn't unbanned a single card they banned yet (except finally Ravine after the Rulers died). Super poly wasn't going to happen anyway, and the interactions with Metalphosis or Starve are hardly any more "broken" than those with Heroes or Dolls.

[The Highlander]

I can't think of a single GX monster that this is linked to like Clear Wing or Dark Rebellion. 

 

It feels like (In effects), it's closest to Genome Herieter than anything that was in GX. I don't think the 'I negate your effect, claim it and your name for my own, existed before ZeXal. 

 

It's weird. I would have assumed it's effect would be based on one of the big GX villians, or at least a supporting character, since we have Tertiary antagonist, Protagonist and then...? Especially since 2800 attack is usually the attack value of a side characters ace, like Crow or Chazz or Shark. 

 

Visually it might be taking after Yubel though instead of Venominaga. 

If you ignore the negate effect part dark panther did exactly do that.

[VCR_CAT]

TCG hasn't unbanned a single card they banned yet (except finally Ravine after the Rulers died).

 

Raigeki?

[玄魔の王]

Raigeki?

He means cards only the TCG banned.

 

Except that's not true either because MoF.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Banned in 2004, ie. Before the major split in 2013

[玄魔の王]

Banned in 2004, ie. Before the major split in 2013

Still an executive decision made by people running the TCG. But I see your point. The OCG wants every card unbanned eventually while the TCG wants banned stuff to stay banned.

[Blake]

After testing this in Odd-Eyes... Yeah, card isn't worth it.

 

If you can go for a fusion, your DARK is probably going to be an Odd-Eyes, namely Persona. Joker exists, but is limited/not absolutely FIND ME NOW PLS, especially given hands where you need to NS Trump Girl.

 

The only ED DARKs I run are Breaksword (Still think this is good, due to noble) and King Feral, and only the latter is passable.

 

So if your Odd-Eyes are all but 3 of your DARK monsters, why would you ever be going into this? It's really niche, overall, and Vortex exists for the Odd-Eyes.

 

And before you say "but Vortex can''t out towers"... It outs all of them bar Chaos MAX consistently, because Performapal Odd-Eyes Unicorn is a good card. 15 + 25 = 40, which gets over Magnus, Ultiruri, Lio Dancer, OG Towers (pfft), Ameshikou, and so on.

 

Not to mention that UTL can often be made in the scenarios where you would use Joker to make this, making it even more niche.

 

I don't think it's a bad card, but I think it does not have a home, and it's not worth jumping through hoops for it atm.

 

Maybe it's worth it if you can find space for the Arma/Zephy engine? IDK.

[Draconus297]

Visually, and somewhat in terms of flavor (hitting your opponent with more damage because they have a strong monster), it takes after Yubel.

Name-wise, it takes after Vennomamiga, and the Venom archetype as a whole.

 

It vaguely references GX, and continues the trend of "villain taught cards" (Slifer/Odd-Eyes, sorta; Dark Mist/Dark Rebellion; Shooting Star/Clear Wing; now Yubel/Starve Venom). So . . . yeah.

[VCR_CAT]

After testing this in Odd-Eyes... Yeah, card isn't worth it.

 

If you can go for a fusion, your DARK is probably going to be an Odd-Eyes, namely Persona. Joker exists, but is limited/not absolutely FIND ME NOW PLS, especially given hands where you need to NS Trump Girl.

 

The only ED DARKs I run are Breaksword (Still think this is good, due to noble) and King Feral, and only the latter is passable.

 

So if your Odd-Eyes are all but 3 of your DARK monsters, why would you ever be going into this? It's really niche, overall, and Vortex exists for the Odd-Eyes.

 

And before you say "but Vortex can''t out towers"... It outs all of them bar Chaos MAX consistently, because Performapal Odd-Eyes Unicorn is a good card. 15 + 25 = 40, which gets over Magnus, Ultiruri, Lio Dancer, OG Towers (pfft), Ameshikou, and so on.

 

Not to mention that UTL can often be made in the scenarios where you would use Joker to make this, making it even more niche.

 

I don't think it's a bad card, but I think it does not have a home, and it's not worth jumping through hoops for it atm.

 

Maybe it's worth it if you can find space for the Arma/Zephy engine? IDK.

 

I'm still of the opinion that it has a home in BA/PK and Shaddolls, but I haven't tested yet. Shaddolls, though, I'm sure would love to have something actually go 3000+. Especially with their main waifu gone.

[Blake]

I'm still of the opinion that it has a home in BA/PK and Shaddolls, but I haven't tested yet. Shaddolls, though, I'm sure would love to have something actually go 3000+. Especially with their main waifu gone.

Allow me to ask you some questions, then:

 

How are you fielding 2+ darks without Winda and/or wasting a Falco?

 

How are you making this without Polymerization, which is fairly mediocre when the Blazeman engine is neutered?

 

I suppose you could run Trump Girl in dolls, but... why? It's only good when it's on demand, same with Trump Witch.

 

PK and BA or a mix thereof seems like it wouldn't want to run Polymerization. Less sheet in BA, due to Dante, but... yeah, not really wort hit.

[VCR_CAT]

Allow me to ask you some questions, then:

 

How are you fielding 2+ darks without Winda and/or wasting a Falco?

 

How are you making this without Polymerization, which is fairly mediocre when the Blazeman engine is neutered?

 

I suppose you could run Trump Girl in dolls, but... why? It's only good when it's on demand, same with Trump Witch.

 

PK and BA or a mix thereof seems like it wouldn't want to run Polymerization. Less s*** in BA, due to Dante, but... yeah, not really wort hit.

 

Shaddolls I admit will have a tougher time fielding monsters to make it live, and that's due to how the archetype plays.

 

PK I can see being very able to tech in Fusion Substitute or Flash Fusion with at least 1 Starve Venom. It consumes minimal space in the deck, and is more or less akin to teching Instant Fusion and Norden when it comes to the deck-building side of matters. PK's have a very easy time fielding at least two monsters, especially with something like Silent Boots, and can compensate the cost of the fusion very readily. Considering the deck is made entirely of DARKs that love to swarm the field, teching either Substitute or Flash is by no means an inconsistent choice, and explained above it does make for a faster means of outing large bosses. Faster, yes; not as reliable as searching and setting up the traps, but it should make for a strong tool in many situations beyond boss busting (Flash Fusion to extend battle phases into OTK territories for instance).

 

I mean, pretty much every time I've faced BA's especially, I've seen that they have an impossible time getting over something with 3000+ ATK and a decent protection effect. Usually target protection is actually all you need to shut them down, considering their deck has no built-in means for non-targeting removal.

[玄魔の王]

Lonefire Blossom into Evil Thorn, Evil Thorn's effect gets 2 DARKs on board. Problem is that mini-engine has no home either.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Um well Dark Magic Veil kinda made Shaddolls ceiling go through the roof

[Blake]

Shaddolls I admit will have a tougher time fielding monsters to make it live, and that's due to how the archetype plays.

 

PK I can see being very able to tech in Fusion Substitute or Flash Fusion with at least 1 Starve Venom. It consumes minimal space in the deck, and is more or less akin to teching Instant Fusion and Norden when it comes to the deck-building side of matters. PK's have a very easy time fielding at least two monsters, especially with something like Silent Boots, and can compensate the cost of the fusion very readily. Considering the deck is made entirely of DARKs that love to swarm the field, teching either Substitute or Flash is by no means an inconsistent choice, and explained above it does make for a faster means of outing large bosses. Faster, yes; not as reliable as searching and setting up the traps, but it should make for a strong tool in many situations beyond boss busting (Flash Fusion to extend battle phases into OTK territories for instance).

 

I mean, pretty much every time I've faced BA's especially, I've seen that they have an impossible time getting over something with 3000+ ATK and a decent protection effect. Usually target protection is actually all you need to shut them down, considering their deck has no built-in means for non-targeting removal.

flash fusion is bad/not worth it

 

fusion substitute is a worse polymerization, especially in BA. Hell, Poly is still better in PK due to speeding your game up by dumping hand resources so that they can search.

 

and poly isn't worth it.

 

Running a low number of Spells is inconsistent. Again, there is a reason no one runs Dragon's Mirror in Zombies/Vanilal Pendulum; ED bosses that require specific unsearchable MD cards are not good.

 

So you either run 3 to maximize consistency... or less and it becomes a maindeck out. A situational removal card that clogs early hands and has a lot of potential to be dead in the average matchup.

 

This isn't like a Synchro or Xyz you can try to fit in as a tech, this is a card that requires ED devotion to summon something on a, theoretical, -2 or more. Sure, you can mitigate this, but that Poly is still a dead ass card.

[VCR_CAT]

flash fusion is bad/not worth it

 

fusion substitute is a worse polymerization, especially in BA. Hell, Poly is still better in PK due to speeding your game up by dumping hand resources so that they can search.

 

and poly isn't worth it.

 

Running a low number of Spells is inconsistent. Again, there is a reason no one runs Dragon's Mirror in Zombies/Vanilal Pendulum; ED bosses that require specific unsearchable MD cards are not good.

 

So you either run 3 to maximize consistency... or less and it becomes a maindeck out. A situational removal card that clogs early hands and has a lot of potential to be dead in the average matchup.

 

This isn't like a Synchro or Xyz you can try to fit in as a tech, this is a card that requires ED devotion to summon something on a, theoretical, -2 or more. Sure, you can mitigate this, but that Poly is still a dead ass card.

 

Actually, seeing as Starve Venom requires that you control the materials, you have no reason to use Poly. And, there's actually a reason to using Substitute. I threw together an example build based on tournament builds from TCG Player, with modifications made according to how I play the game/my own preference.

 

[spoiler=Example Build]

 

See, the thing with Fusion Sub is that you can recycle a fusion monster back to the Extra Deck for an extra draw. This isn't anything terribly significant, but not only does it play to the strengths of Dante as a card to mill the Extra Deck, but it freed up space in the Extra Deck as well by allowing the deck to run only 1 Dante Pilgrim that can be recycled back with relative ease. The deck excels at placing two or more DARKs on the field, has the potential to summon Dante Pilgrim legitimately if that's actually the right move in a given situation, and I was able to slip these cards into the deck with no real trouble of sacrificing utility or ability.

 

Fusion Sub acts as a sort of Blue Layer for this deck; it allowed me to make room for Starve Venom by reducing the number of another monster by offering a means to recycle it. Seeing as how well BAPK really mills and thins their deck, this isn't likely to be something that's never to be seen in a duel.

 

If ED monsters that required relatively unsearchable spells weren't good, I can't imagine why we've been running Norden so much over the years. For this build, running 2 offers a decent potential to see it in a duel, the monster line-up ensures a good chance of it being live, and the instance of it being milled doesn't render it completely useless. Not to mention it was actually easy as hell to make room for it.

 

The game isn't all about options you can search reliably; there will always be a luck factor, and just because you can't search something doesn't completely undermine the value of being able to use it when the time comes.

 

 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

>Wasting Falco says you

>Not losing to Dark Destroyer says me

 

Without Construct, Dolls have a ceiling at 2800 (DMoC) and potentially higher with Juregedo, but in one card Starve can ruin Kozmo and other monsters above the 2800 mark

 

BTW, can Blazeman Search Fusion Sub?

[VCR_CAT]

BTW, can Blazeman Search Fusion Sub?

 

Yes. Its name is always treated as "Polymerization"

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Yes. Its name is always treated as "Polymerization"

Well, I guess if you run Hero Dolls, you can fuse Stratos into Windigo and use Mali to make Beatrice and Omega

 

If only I could work out the ratios properly 

 

Edit: Speaking of your second Dark, Black: How about Mali? Multi-purpose ceiling-jump in card

[VampireofDarkness]

Visually, and somewhat in terms of flavor (hitting your opponent with more damage because they have a strong monster), it takes after Yubel.

 

I think it should also be noted in this category that a lot of Yubel's monsters in the duel vs Jaden were Plants. Same with Yuri's arch and IIRC the OCG name of the upgrades of Yubel having Dragon in their German portion of name. Interesting to say the least.

 

As for the card itself, idk. I feel many ways about it. It's a really good card, but I don't know where quite to place it. I could tell you without reading anything here it is eh in Performa and Pals because Joker is at 1, BA and Pals MAYBE would consider it? I will try it out tho. The place where I see this really going is those DARK Hero Decks with Mali, Zeph, and them. (That joint me and Winter were vouching for at one point) Fusion Substitute at the very least is great Monk fodder combined with Instant Fusion and this gives Mali another use. Definitely not easy to throw in but I think it shouldn't be given a verdict through testing it in just 1 Deck or so. Personally to me this just means the doors are opened again to wide range testing!!

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I think it should also be noted in this category that a lot of Yubel's monsters in the duel vs Jaden were Plants. Same with Yuri's arch and IIRC the OCG name of the upgrades of Yubel having Dragon in their German portion of name. Interesting to say the least.

 

As for the card itself, idk. I feel many ways about it. It's a really good card, but I don't know where quite to place it. I could tell you without reading anything here it is eh in Performa and Pals because Joker is at 1, BA and Pals MAYBE would consider it? I will try it out tho. The place where I see this really going is those DARK Hero Decks with Mali, Zeph, and them. (That joint me and Winter were vouching for at one point) Fusion Substitute at the very least is great Monk fodder combined with Instant Fusion and this gives Mali another use. Definitely not easy to throw in but I think it shouldn't be given a verdict through testing it in just 1 Deck or so. Personally to me this just means the doors are opened again to wide range testing!!

Hero-Dolls mate, that way you can make Beatrice, maximize on the Dolls potential, have Omega (allure), Grysta access and poly search in one card (Blazeman) and enough Darks to make this live on a common basis

 

Ratios Ratios Ratios 

 

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[Tinkerer]

I just like how Tenki automatically fulfills half of this card's Summon. It can search Black Sheep which is DARK/can be discarded to search Polymerization.

[VampireofDarkness]

Hero-Dolls mate, that way you can make Beatrice, maximize on the Dolls potential, have Omega (allure), Grysta access and poly search in one card (Blazeman) and enough Darks to make this live on a common basis

 

Ratios Ratios Ratios 

 

:'()

Might considering sitting down with you on this. Either way doing my own testing for sure!

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

 

 

Just realized...jeez, was wonder why you kept suggesting it over and over with flash

 

You're funking brilliant, you know that right? It's a funking Raigeki with Flash Fusion, doesn't entirely solve all my match ups, but it a nice board clear.

 

Most problematic cards are special summoned, and it doesn't target, Dweller+Flash seems pretty neat, esp when Falco can float.

 

It also "turns off" Winda

 

Thanks for the idea ^_^

 

 

Might considering sitting down with you on this. Either way doing my own testing for sure!

Been trying for a long ass time tbh

 

But the Stratos play is usually your best bet, and space is already cramped. It gets bloody annoying when they evac or kirin your Beatrice

[Kaiji]

 

I mean, pretty much every time I've faced BA's especially, I've seen that they have an impossible time getting over something with 3000+ ATK and a decent protection effect. Usually target protection is actually all you need to shut them down, considering their deck has no built-in means for non-targeting removal.

This is where F0 beomes more important and unlike poly you don't have to hard draw a card (comparatively worse than a kaiju, poly's searchability only matters if you plan on playing more than 3 copies)

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

This is where F0 beomes more important and unlike poly you don't have to hard draw a card (comparatively worse than a kaiju, poly's searchability only matters if you plan on playing more than 3 copies)

Wouldn't Fusion Sub have increased utility from Law and Pilgrim too (maybe 2) Throw in super poly and you have your three polys

 

I'm just not sure why three cards with a draw mandate is that much worse than 4 cards to make f0, when the cards used to make Venom could have additional grave senergy to boot

 

Problem with Kaiju is, Mill a Kaiju, you're not much worse off but you can't gain. Mill a Fusion sub and you /can/ make two Beatrice live