Can We Have A Casual TCG/OCG Section, Please?

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

I've asked this a few times, and I will ask it again.

Not everyone here plays competitively, but our TCG/OCG section seems totally fixated on providing commentary on cards and decks of a competitive nature.

And they have created, as a result, a very anti-casual atmosphere, where they ignore casual decks and think that people who play casually are below them.

Because of this, it seems that many of the people who comment on newly-released cards either write them off as bad because they don't affect the meta, or freak out over how good they are because they will affect the meta.

I would just like a place on this site to discuss the feasibility of cards and decks without having to worry about how competitive they have to be.

[ENMaker]

I'm casual to the point where I haven't bought an actual card in over 7 years but I get by fine. If something is, or appears to be at first glance, shite, people aren't going to look for the 1 cute obscure combo that utilises it when it's initially brought up, because the first reaction is just the kneejerk initial thought and then the thread dies. In the case of cards that aren't new releases, I don't see what you describe at all. So really this'd be a solution to a problem that barely exists if it does at all.

[Tinkerer]

Is that really true, though? I know that personally I like finding cool little interactions and when I want to, I share them whether or not they're meta worthy.

 

I don't necessarily think it's the section that's the issue in this case. It's the people who only look at the cards through a casual/competitive lens. However, there's nothing wrong with discussing its casual/competitive potential as long as both sides talk about the card instead of bashing the other side.

[вєgσттєη ιηѕαηιту]

You could just add a [Casual] tag to your posts.

[Premier Alexander Romanov]

You could just add a [Casual] tag to your posts.

Why should I have to add a special tag to my posts?

[вєgσттєη ιηѕαηιту]

So we don't have to add a new section..? It's simple, for the title just put "Name of your post [Casual]".

 

Problem solved with minimum effort.

[Slinky]

Because you have to do so in other sections too?  Like the [serious] tag in Misc. or the [WRITTEN] Tag in the custom card section, r the [insert Card Game Here] tag you have to use in the Other TCG section. It's not going to hurt you.

[ihop]

This entire site is casual TCG/OCG.

[Simping For Hina]

What is the benefit of casual? I really never got that. It is mostly giving each other stupid ideas that seem fun, but no real criticism or growth stems from that.

[Toffee.]

This entire site is casual TCG/OCG.

Metagame is too mainstream :^)

[Catterjune]

What is the benefit of casual? I really never got that. It is mostly giving each other stupid ideas that seem fun, but no real criticism or growth stems from that.

Yeah, this pretty much.

 

If you post a deck, you either want a pat on the head or you want to make it better.

 

If you want a pat on the head over the internet that's kinda dumb. Go back to tumblr for attention whoring. If you want to make it better... better in comparison to what? We can't make it better to your local meta. We don't go to your locals. The only meta we all share in common is THE meta, the regional and national stage. If you want it "better"... obviously we're gonna try to get it to the meta level.

 

tl;dr - What the first guy said.

[evilfusion]

This has been brought up before, and it's the same reason why the Your Deck section doesn't cater to a purely casual mindset.

 

In order for genuine discussion to take place, there has to be some sort of a standard of what is good, what is bad, and what is just sort of there. Decks can't just be posted and expect everyone to think it's amazing. There are different opinions on how a Deck should be run, opinions on what cards suit them better than other options, and how the Deck actually functions from a competitive standpoint.

 

Even if you ignore the meta itself, how do you judge a Deck? How a Deck fares against 60 card highlander Decks has absolutely no merit as to how good the Deck is.

 

That's why the meta is usually used as a standard. Without a solid standard, all suggestions can just be dismissed. No reason to swap De-Spell for MST, because the Deck is casual. Casual is too loose a standard to apply. And what kind of criticisms and advice can you give for something given the vague label of "casual"?

 

Now, I realize we're talking about individual card discussion, but the same problem applies. How can you tell if a card is "good" or not if there isn't a standard? How can you discuss whether a card is deserving of praise or hate without a criteria of what makes it good or bad? Can it work as a tech in specific Decks? Will it help in certain matchups?

 

And then there's archetype support that doesn't benefit the archetype's playstyle. Yes, you can run it in that sort of Deck, but if it doesn't do enough to further the Deck's goal, then it's a subpar card in terms of the ideal build of that Deck.

[Just Crouton]

If the card sucks, then there's nothing nice to say about it.

 

It's not a matter of casual or competitive. It's the matter of the card sucking.

 

Even a card can suck in casual.

[IQuitDolphin]

Honestly, I hate casual conversation, especially when the topic has completely no usage even when playing with friends. If anything, having a new section is not going to do anything, and it's a prime example of "increase mod involvement" (lol politics) that just leads to "more mod involvement since that didn't work" (lol politics). We can't change the minds of the people on here, and if you want to say something stupid in the name of "casualness", then you still said something stupid regardless.

[ihop]

I mean if you want to avoud discussing a card on its merits entirely justmake a tag lol

[VampireofDarkness]

Honestly this isn't an issue of the need for a Casual tag or some bs like that, it's the issue of the overall environment and the attitude of its overall community. Way too many semi casuals here and people unwilling to add worthwhile discussion in, and the people who can have to go out of their way to do so. The issue is, nobody is willing to get along to fix the issue. And as long as this is the case, TCG/OCG will be as pathetic as it is. Zauls tried to tell y'all, but nobody listened. I guess this is me saying it more bluntly. You all dun fked

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

So to be clear. What is it that's wanted here? What would you be doing with a casual section?

 

I'm all for making decks and talking about cards that aren't top tier or w/e but there has to be some sort of leeway. A casual deck can still be refined to be best it can be without taking away from the combo/theme wanted. And a card can have interesting combos and such that's not necessarily optimal.

However the problem is that you need to be able to actually set some sort of ground rules. As in. Not complaining about people trying to tell you the best way to optimize it. Actually explaining the purpose of the deck and what you expect from the comments. (I remember making a deck for MtG and explaining I knew this and that combo weren't optimal, and asking which of a certain type of card (Instants and Sorceries) would work best for the idea I had.

 

Like I don't see why you can't do something more casual as long as you actually...have something to discuss. If you want to just showcase a deck that's casual, post it in Misc. If you want advice on how to fix a few problems, but want to restrict certain "competitive" fixes, say so. Don't just post a casual deck and expect people to be able to discuss it without having something to discuss.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

The issue is, nobody is willing to get along to fix the issue. And as long as this is the case, TCG/OCG will be as pathetic as it is. Zauls tried to tell y'all, but nobody listened. I guess this is me saying it more bluntly. You all dun fked

And going all cynical and calling the place trash is really going to get more people to get along right?  

 

 

Causal honest has no place in TCG. How are you supposed to improve something that wants to be mediocre. It detracts from semi-serious discussions when some bloke gets all Yu-gi-oh justice warrior on people objectively saying a card isn't good.

 

Not every card is going to be good, and until all y'all can understand that it's better to separate out the two camps so TCG can actually get some decent attention

 

For the record, TCG's decline began when Koko, Hoppy, and Giga dropped out, not "when" the more prominent members started "not getting alone" with casuals

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

The problem is that there are tons of casual-oriented discussions going on already, alongside meta relevant things, so this is just a redundant concept.

[Maeriberii Haan]

 

Not every card is going to be good, and until all y'all can understand that it's better to separate out the two camps so TCG can actually get some decent attention

 

For the record, TCG's decline began when Koko, Hoppy, and Giga dropped out, not "when" the more prominent members started "not getting alone" with casuals

 

But separating the two won't really make it any better as a place. The decline is because the a big part of what can be considered as the good playerbase in YCM has either gone inactive on the forum or the game. I doubt that separating would actually bring these people back, and if done now, it'll only serve just to make TCG even more of a circlejerk than it already is right now.

 

Really, this would achieve nothing. We're not smogon and its huge userbase that can afford to do something like that. Can't really fish out quality out of nothing.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

But separating the two won't really make it any better as a place. The decline is because the a big part of what can be considered as the good playerbase in YCM has either gone inactive on the forum or the game. I doubt that separating would actually bring these people back, and if done now, it'll only serve just to make TCG even more of a circlejerk than it already is right now.

 

Really, this would achieve nothing. We're not smogon and its huge userbase that can afford to do something like that. Can't really fish out quality out of nothing.

Diluting what little we have won't help either

[Maeriberii Haan]

Neither option really helps if you want quality, really.

[ihop]

I mean, when I was actually active in TCG I was always frustrated that the site was too casual, not not casual enough. So many people knew almost nothing about what was actually good in Yugioh, and there was all sorts of discussion of cards with little competitive value but were cool in casual Yugioh.

 

It seems what you're suggesting is not discussing the cards on their merit at all which isn't exactly what casual means. Even if you're not playing the meta one really should be properly analysing cards.

[Zauls]

TCG would not benefit at all from further separation of fundamentally related topics of discussion. If anything, the opposite would be more beneficial. The fact we separate discussion of individual cards from discussion of archetypes and decks, as well as from general theory/discussion makes each section less active and less useful. There's not really any difference between talking about an individual card and talking about deckbuilding theory. It's all talking about the TCG and there's no reason to separate it.

Also, one point I made in that thread a while back was that people weren't setting the context of the debate when posting individual card threads, which meant there was no real direction or purpose to the discussion. The problem isn't as simple as specifying "casual" or "competitive", it's more about setting out a certain context or set of assumptions in the original thread. For example, what's going on right now is the equivalent of parliament trying to start a debate by just saying "talk about nurses" rather than "discuss the problem with supply deficit of nurses in the NHS and the possible solutions".

 

tl;dr merge the Banlists & Theory section with Card Discussion and Archetype Discussion & Guides to form a "TCG Discussion" section and set out a clause for the standards of a thread.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I mean, when I was actually active in TCG I was always frustrated that the site was too casual, not not casual enough. So many people knew almost nothing about what was actually good in Yugioh, and there was all sorts of discussion of cards with little competitive value but were cool in casual Yugioh.

 

It seems what you're suggesting is not discussing the cards on their merit at all which isn't exactly what casual means. Even if you're not playing the meta one really should be properly analysing cards.

And now we can separate out the undesirable element and create a more competitive standard. You could see the casual tag and just not enter that topic