[Finished]Dova's Competitions #4: Extra Deck to Extra Deck! [Finished]

[VCR_CAT]

To you yes, to others no. I look at that card I genuinely do not see what you describe. I read your description, I understand the idea at the very least. The art is a giant space robot but you say it's a dimension-leaping psychic mind-controller. The name is Nightmare Exaflayer which implies some sort of supernatural quality for one which it does not have, and the flaying aspect does to a degree correlate but it's again a conflation of the definition rather than something that inherently works. The mechanic is a self-recurring Snatch Steal that for some reason changes the stats. I've never known a parasite to increase the strength of its host. My point being this is not an obvious interpretation.

 

But this doesn't matter because ultimately you'd the chance to provide this information, you chose not to, and something I've not mentioned but am going to now is it doesn't actually make a difference in the broader context because you're coming nowhere anyway. Think of it as a learning experience if nothing else. You now know that providing context for your card is a helpful thing to do and will never count against you.

 

I will neither design my cards with the mindset that the best flavor is the most painfully obvious flavor, nor will I cater my entries expecting judges to not understand flavor or be bothered to look up that which they don't understand. I expect more from someone who was decided to be good enough to critique cards at a contest level, and so should you. The flavor for my card is there, I can show it to any number of people and they'll either get it, or be willing to actually look it up to get it if they don't. Is it an obvious interpretation? No. Should it be an obvious interpretation? No, it doesn't need to be. I expect more from judges than me needing to spoonfeed my flavor to them, and if they need flavor spoonfed to them, then it both defeats the purpose of having a flavor score and also points to the fact that maybe they shouldn't be a judge.

 

There's a difference between a card's flavor being a legitimate stretch and not really there, and it just being subtle and not immediately obvious. Take this as a learning experience if nothing else; quality theme and flavor doesn't mean it's immediately obvious at face-value.

[cardgameking]

*Sees score*

*Bursts out laughing*

[Major's Shadow]

Thought this was a Sub-Forum on CC's and Constructive Criticism, but, guess I was wrong. I'll just post bullet points, since there's already a lot of TL:DR in the previous posts:

1. Thanks Dova for the 1st Place ranking, was not expecting that! Also, the stats are due to its Summoning Condition and effect generating enough value as-is, and forgot Konami updated Xyz OCG w/ the OPT clause using Colons, so fair enough on the score.
2. Enguin, there's no need to toss logs into the fire, especially regarding unofficial reviews of made-up cards. Let the Judge and the entrant have discussions regarding this review, as it pertains to them.
3. Again, Positive Reinforcement should be provided to Dova, as he's put a ton of work into giving everybody his review. Let's not forget he started this competition under his own discretion.
4. Regarding the issues with VCR_Cat, I'll chip in my 50 cents to the issue:

• Personally, I feel OCG should have been marked, as it's generally sloppy and contains run-on sentences and poor clarification. Your defense is right in that the mechanics make sense, but it could have been tidied up. Its correct that a card shouldn't be spoon-fed, but there's an expected level of consistency that should be across all facets of a card, and if Dova feels that didn't live up to standards, then that's up to his discretion.
• Let me clarify this, and again, I do mean clarify: Dova is a Judge who, under his own discretion and spare time, chose to review your card and provide you free rewards for performing well in the competition he chose to run. It's understandable that providing reviews should be done so cleanly and professionally, but that's not an excuse to ignite a flame war over the supposed "quality of judging in this sub-forum" as a whole. Recall, Dova was never forced to run this competition, was never forced to provide you a review, and was never forced to give compensation towards players after reviewing.
• When you provide feedback to a Judge, you should be playing devil's advocate, with different perspectives on a card that might have otherwise been overlooked. It shouldn't be in your position to directly insult the judge's work, or claim their work is entirely wrong. It's in their interest to provide their feedback, not yours, based on the points made above. At least appreciate the work they've done for you. 

Again, I'm so terribly sorry this has fallen apart for you Dova. Personally, you've done a phenomenal job creating tournaments up to this point, and your work inspired me to make my fairly successful run of tournaments, and begin judging more frequently! I hope this whole thing resolves smoothly, and if you need anything, I'll gladly help!

 

~YugsterMajor

[Dova]

Wow, I...thanks for that. The funny thing is, I started looking up to you after you came back, as you seemed to do a very good job as a CC Judge.

 

As for the tournament falling apart, that was my fault and a lesson I never learn, although I thank you for caring. Basically, I signed up to be a judge in Yuuji's comp. forgot about it as I for some reason expected to be told when it was finished, and then I hosted this competition. All of which coincidentally met up just as my school announced Exams a week early, and the advanced multiple thread went up again in attention. I hope that I won't make the same mistake twice, and my next competition will be more satisfactory.

 

If there are no more complaints, I will award the prizes and just finish this off :)

 

Thanks everyone for participating!

[вєgσттєη ιηѕαηιту]

Dova I think you did a fine job and am thankful you ran this competition.

[Major's Shadow]

Wow, I...thanks for that. The funny thing is, I started looking up to you after you came back, as you seemed to do a very good job as a CC Judge.

 

As for the tournament falling apart, that was my fault and a lesson I never learn, although I thank you for caring. Basically, I signed up to be a judge in Yuuji's comp. forgot about it as I for some reason expected to be told when it was finished, and then I hosted this competition. All of which coincidentally met up just as my school announced Exams a week early, and the advanced multiple thread went up again in attention. I hope that I won't make the same mistake twice, and my next competition will be more satisfactory.

 

If there are no more complaints, I will award the prizes and just finish this off :)

 

Thanks everyone for participating!

Sure, and much appreciated! Also, are you going to post results in the Gladiator Arena? 

[VCR_CAT]

• Personally, I feel OCG should have been marked, as it's generally sloppy and contains run-on sentences and poor clarification. Your defense is right in that the mechanics make sense, but it could have been tidied up. Its correct that a card shouldn't be spoon-fed, but there's an expected level of consistency that should be across all facets of a card, and if Dova feels that didn't live up to standards, then that's up to his discretion.
• Let me clarify this, and again, I do mean clarify: Dova is a Judge who, under his own discretion and spare time, chose to review your card and provide you free rewards for performing well in the competition he chose to run. It's understandable that providing reviews should be done so cleanly and professionally, but that's not an excuse to ignite a flame war over the supposed "quality of judging in this sub-forum" as a whole. Recall, Dova was never forced to run this competition, was never forced to provide you a review, and was never forced to give compensation towards players after reviewing.
• When you provide feedback to a Judge, you should be playing devil's advocate, with different perspectives on a card that might have otherwise been overlooked. It shouldn't be in your position to directly insult the judge's work, or claim their work is entirely wrong. It's in their interest to provide their feedback, not yours, based on the points made above. At least appreciate the work they've done for you. 

 

My card grammar is correct, and any number of people can confirm this for you. Unless you actually want to show where it's wrong and why it's wrong, simply saying to me "it's sloppy and poorly clarified" is nothing but a baseless insult in this case.

 

At no point did I directly insult Dova or his work. Also, what you're describing basically tells me this:

 

So the judge tag means nothing.

 

If you're going to sign up to be a judge in this subforum, and manage contests in it, then there are expectations towards the quality of their critique and what's expected of their critique. If what you're telling me is that I should never at all speak out against poor critiques of cards because I should be "grateful" that it's getting reviewed, then I'm afraid it seems as though your skin isn't thick enough for such a position. If what you're telling me is to not expect criticism of any better quality than some random making a passing comment on a card I post in the Advanced Section, then why bother with the tag in the first place if not to make yourselves look like you know better?

 

If I feel a judge's reasoning was poor in their review, I will speak out against it. I appreciate the time they took to look over my card, but in this environment I expect more from a judge than anyone commenting on an Advanced Thread. Unless they're really trying my patience (in which case, that's a different ballpark), I will do my best not to insult them directly and present my points in a civil manner, as I feel I did in this contest.

 

If you still feel like me challenging his critique in this contest was insulting and poor in execution, that's your problem as someone who can't seem to take such challenges; not mine.

[Major's Shadow]

My card grammar is correct, and any number of people can confirm this for you. Unless you actually want to show where it's wrong and why it's wrong, simply saying to me "it's sloppy and poorly clarified" is nothing but a baseless insult in this case.

 

At no point did I directly insult Dova or his work. Also, what you're describing basically tells me this:

 

So the judge tag means nothing.

 

If you're going to sign up to be a judge in this subforum, and manage contests in it, then there are expectations towards the quality of their critique and what's expected of their critique. If what you're telling me is that I should never at all speak out against poor critiques of cards because I should be "grateful" that it's getting reviewed, then I'm afraid it seems as though your skin isn't thick enough for such a position. If what you're telling me is to not expect criticism of any better quality than some random making a passing comment on a card I post in the Advanced Section, then why bother with the tag in the first place if not to make yourselves look like you know better?

 

If I feel a judge's reasoning was poor in their review, I will speak out against it. I appreciate the time they took to look over my card, but in this environment I expect more from a judge than anyone commenting on an Advanced Thread. Unless they're really trying my patience (in which case, that's a different ballpark), I will do my best not to insult them directly and present my points in a civil manner, as I feel I did in this contest.

 

If you still feel like me challenging his critique in this contest was insulting and poor in execution, that's your problem as someone who can't seem to take such challenges; not mine.

I'll do a correction on the OCG:

[spoiler=OCG Correction]

Original: 1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monsters

For this card's Synchro Summon, all non-Tuner monsters must be Xyz Monsters, treating their Ranks as if they were Levels. Must first be Synchro Summoned. Once per turn, you can target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls; Equip this card to that target, then take control of that target and it gains 3000 ATK and DEF, but it cannot be Tributed or be used as a Material for a Special Summon. This equipped card cannot be targeted or destroyed by card effects. If the monster this card is equipped to would leave the field, Special Summon this card from your S/T Card Zone.

 

Correction: 1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monsters

Must first be Synchro Summoned, by using an Xyz Monster(s) as the non-Tuner Material(s) towards this card's Synchro Summoning, treating its Rank as a Level, and by no other means. Once per turn: You can target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls; Equip this card to that target. While this card is equipped to a monster by this effect, take control of that monster. The equipped monster gains 3000ATK and DEF, also cannot be targeted or destroyed by card effects, used as Tribute or used towards the Summoning of another monster. If the equipped monster would leave the field, Special Summon this card from your Spell/Trap Card Zone.

 

I wouldn't mark off much, considering the mechanics for this kind of Summoning don't technically exist. I'm more concerned about the OPT effect regarding the run-off sentences.

 

"I expect more from someone who was chosen to be a judge, and you should as well and it's things like poor expectations of judges that have lead to this section's decline in quality."

Heavily implied, IMO. However, wording was incorrect on my part regarding usage of direct insults for the majority of the discussion, which is not true. my apologies.

 

It was not my intention to make the point of shutting people out, but an individual should consider the value of their statements. Again, like I said, it's an educated opinion, but still an opinion. People are bound to make mistakes when forming an opinion, even an educated one. My point is not to ploy gratitude as an excuse tag, but as a reminder towards your position as a free entrant.

 

I'm not going to disagree with you here. However, everything in defense of your reasoning stretched towards a full-on debate regarding the quality of judging as a whole in the CC Sub-section. This far extends beyond just constructive criticism of a single judge's entry.

 

I'm not taking a challange, I'm questioning your execution in providing an unnecessarily lengthy defense towards your opinion of Dova's opinion. He understands his mistakes made, no need to keep this debate train rolling.

 

If this is something that concerns you, then perhaps another post could be devoted towards this discussion? For now, let us leave this CC forum post in peace, and move on.

[VCR_CAT]

I'll do a correction on the OCG:

[spoiler=OCG Correction]

Original: 1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monsters

For this card's Synchro Summon, all non-Tuner monsters must be Xyz Monsters, treating their Ranks as if they were Levels. Must first be Synchro Summoned. Once per turn, you can target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls; Equip this card to that target, then take control of that target and it gains 3000 ATK and DEF, but it cannot be Tributed or be used as a Material for a Special Summon. This equipped card cannot be targeted or destroyed by card effects. If the monster this card is equipped to would leave the field, Special Summon this card from your S/T Card Zone.

 

Correction: 1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monsters

Must first be Synchro Summoned, by using an Xyz Monster(s) as the non-Tuner Material(s) towards this card's Synchro Summoning, treating its Rank as a Level, and by no other means. Once per turn: You can target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls; Equip this card to that target. While this card is equipped to a monster by this effect, take control of that monster. The equipped monster gains 3000ATK and DEF, also cannot be targeted or destroyed by card effects, used as Tribute or used towards the Summoning of another monster. If the equipped monster would leave the field, Special Summon this card from your Spell/Trap Card Zone.

 

I wouldn't mark off much, considering the mechanics for this kind of Summoning don't technically exist. I'm more concerned about the OPT effect regarding the run-off sentences.

 

"I expect more from someone who was chosen to be a judge, and you should as well and it's things like poor expectations of judges that have lead to this section's decline in quality."

Heavily implied, IMO. However, wording was incorrect on my part regarding usage of direct insults for the majority of the discussion, which is not true. my apologies.

 

It was not my intention to make the point of shutting people out, but an individual should consider the value of their statements. Again, like I said, it's an educated opinion, but still an opinion. People are bound to make mistakes when forming an opinion, even an educated one. My point is not to ploy gratitude as an excuse tag, but as a reminder towards your position as a free entrant.

 

I'm not going to disagree with you here. However, everything in defense of your reasoning stretched towards a full-on debate regarding the quality of judging as a whole in the CC Sub-section. This far extends beyond just constructive criticism of a single judge's entry.

 

I'm not taking a challange, I'm questioning your execution in providing an unnecessarily lengthy defense towards your opinion of Dova's opinion. He understands his mistakes made, no need to keep this debate train rolling.

 

If this is something that concerns you, then perhaps another post could be devoted towards this discussion? For now, let us leave this CC forum post in peace, and move on.

 

I made two posts, first of which was wordy (I'm an English Major; sue me) and presented in an impersonal manner at worst. I admitted my mistakes when they were made, and I only made two posts total. In regards to the parts I did challenge to debate, I did so because I felt the reasoning for the critique was due to a lack of understanding towards the current state of the game (Level 4 tuners and how they are used) which was argued using anecdotal evidence. 

 

I handled myself with Dova very well, and I do not appreciate being accused of flaming him or disrespecting him, nor the condescending manner in which you made these accusations towards me.

[Dova]

Welp, competition is over. Points have been awarded, would a mod please lock this?