Metamorphosis

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

Tribute 1 monster. Special Summon 1 Fusion Monster from your Fusion Deck with the same Level as the Tributed monster.

 

This might be my favorite spell card in the game, a card that gained infamy in my fav format etc. 

 

Until recently, due to Norden, it seemed like this card could never come off without an Errata, OCG dealt with that issue, and I'm hoping TCG will follow suit in the April (lol?) list

 

So what's broken about this card?

 

Cyber Twin Dragon? Blue Eyes aren't even running a card like Dargon's mirror to get free Twin Blue's off, why would they run a neg 1 to get a similar effect off?

 

Exterio? Stein has been legal for over 2 years not, still ain't shifting any games, also Ghost Oger is a card. Relying just on a s/t lock isn't and end all in the game, especially not with a card like Solemn Strike as popular as it currently is.

 

Last Warrior? Reverse Exterio really, basically any backrow can crack this car

 

People might say it'll break Hieratics since you can tribute a hieratic to go for Photon Twin dragon and then Atum. People do realize that two Hieratics can get the same result right?

 

It's an unsearchable -1 which no truly broken targets.

 

Some may say TER can never come back because of it, again not true. TER is better off from IF since you can CoTH it back in that case unlike here.

 

Most fusions are either Nomi these days, or need to be fusion summoned first, or need to be contact fusion'd first. While not as accessible as stein, I really don't see it being all that damaging, but I was wrong on Shock, and Chain, and a lot of other cards, so there might be a fair bit I'm missing

 

Discuss 

[VCR_CAT]

We had a thread about this not too long ago; and honestly I really, really dislike this card. Fusions are only going to get better over time, and with how easy practically every level is becoming to summon and get out on the field, this card is only going to get better and better. It's a virtually cost-free card that's able to summon some ridiculously powerful monsters with an incredible ease to set up. I cannot see, nor want, this card coming back without some significant errata that offers some real restrictions or cost to how this card works.

[mido9]

 

 

Until recently, due to Norden, it seemed like this card could never come off without an Errata

Isnt this just two level 4s for 2 cards which is average, except you swap one of your level 4s for one other monster in grave?

[VCR_CAT]

Actually, I'm going to expand on my post, because this card actually becomes utterly stupid in a lot of decks.

 

Beyond my elaboration of how ridiculously powerful this card gets, I'm already thinking of the hands you can have with Trains that not only turn this card into a +0, but can grant me a field of 81 w/ Derricrane and Exterio with stupid ease. That field, of 81 w/ Derricrane and Exterio, that's a gg; and this is still ignoring that Gaiastrio is an excellent toolbox alternative. There's nothing you can do there without shoehorning in something like Lava Golem that you can't search. Beyond that, any relatively toolboxy deck that's able to swarm with ease and get out decently high level has sudden access to a pretty good range of strong fusions to supplement their plays or extend combos. D/D's get a ridiculous number of combo extenders and easy plays using either Berfomet, or any range of their Extra Deck monsters that summon something from your grave when you summon a D/D. Frick, decks that can go Level 6 get access to frickin' Ojama King. And hey, let's not forget Odd-Eyes Vortex Dragon; can't forget that.

 

The way you look at this card is incredibly short-sighted, because you're only looking at a few examples and even then not even considering those very far. It doesn't matter if a card isn't searchable; considering the absolute sheer toolbox of this card, the splashability, lack of cost, ease of setup, you don't even need absolutely broken cards to go into. All you need is something decently strong and the ability to get it out with ease and you're golden. If anything, the only way this card was weakened is because the Level 5 or lower pool for Fusions got worse and less accessible entirely thanks to Instant Fusion. Levels from 6-10 are free game for a wide range of decks, and each level has access to even at least 1 pretty strong toolbox addition.

 

This card is way too generic, way too easy, and way too potent. If anything, I'd go as far as to say this is practically the Pot of Greed of Fusion-related cards. Absolutely never should this card come back in this current state without a significant errata.

[JessicaMuddy]

Gagaga Magician.

[Sleepy]

Honestly, if we are talking about pure concepts and principles alone, we have a share of cards that shouldn't be around out there.

Some of the design out there is only not ridiculous due to powercreep, and that's a very common thing in the game.

That combined with how TCG has the power to and has said that: They pretty much can and will update the list whenever they feel like it.

 

So it occurs to me that, well, cards that restrict future design, at least for TCG side, shouldn't really be banned just on the idea that the future might break it, at least until that actually does happen. 

 

I'm not saying Metamorphosis in particular here.... It's 3am and my mind is not gonna be very sound.

 

Still, I'd like to see the counter-argument, because reasons.

OT:
Just a quick note.
Dragon's Mirror is less of a minus, but actually requires more setup due to Graveyard fillup, that's part of why people still run Eye of Timaeus more than Dragon's Mirror for Dark Magician Fusions. I'd say Metamorphosis is like Timaeus but more generic, so its sheer potential and flexibility is pretty big. I'm sure it is also still better to go -1 with Metamorphosis in a solid power play than to pay 5000 LP you are not guaranteed to have unless you are aiming for a turbo build focused on locks which is gonna always aim for early game setup rather than letting the duel play out normally, and by "early game" it pretty much means "preferably turn 1".

IDK, I think this card is very risky. Yes there are other decks capable of OTKs, but this card makes them that much easier and general, meanwhile you pretty much will run Twin Burst in a Blue-Eyes deck and nowhere else otherwise.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

So it occurs to me that, well, cards that restrict future design, at least for TCG side, shouldn't really be banned just on the idea that the future might break it, at least until that actually does happen.

this needs to be said more. Maybe it is because this is a forum where many members designed their own stuff and was fed a "Konami is bad at designing cards" mantra, but people stress the concept of health way too highly. Like the RML argument. Yes, it can provide tons of plusses, but that isn't an inherently bad thing.

 

If the whole game adhered to what people here call healthy, it would honestly be boring as funk.

 

Honestly, I would love to see metamorphosis come back, at least for a format. It might be a tad bit broken, but it isn't going to push anything into tier 0 by a longshot.

[VCR_CAT]

this needs to be said more. Maybe it is because this is a forum where many members designed their own stuff and was fed a "Konami is bad at designing cards" mantra, but people stress the concept of health way too highly. Like the RML argument. Yes, it can provide tons of plusses, but that isn't an inherently bad thing.

 

If the whole game adhered to what people here call healthy, it would honestly be boring as f***.

 

Honestly, I would love to see metamorphosis come back, at least for a format. It might be a tad bit broken, but it isn't going to push anything into tier 0 by a longshot.

 

Refer to my post. You'll find I focus a lot more on the current than I do the potential future.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Refer to my post. You'll find I focus a lot more on the current than I do the potential future.

I read it. I just think you are overperceiving the risk, a la Winter and Yata.

[VCR_CAT]

I read it. I just think you are overperceiving the risk, a la Winter and Yata.

 

It's not just the risk that even today there are still plenty of monsters that are way too good to be summoned with these level of ease, but just that there's almost no niche to be had with this deck. Any deck that is able to get out levels 6+ with relative ease has almost instant access to a wide range of incredibly powerful monsters for incredibly cheap amounts. Metamorphosis is so close to being well balanced if it also went by Type and Attribute on top of level; but right now it just does WAY too much and enables combos and moves way too powerful for me to be comfortable with it.

 

If anything, I think you're undervaluing the risk simply due to the idea that nothing incredibly broken is immediately obvious.

[The Warden]

I'm on VCR's side here, though I'm more concerned with the fact that this pretty turns any level 4 into Norden, and it's probably not a very good idea to to be able to turn any level 4 into Norden. Plus, with the vast pool of Fusions available, it wouldn't be hard to tech this into a wide range of decks to, as VCR said, grant some excessively powerful monsters that would be otherwise difficult/tedious to make. Of course, this being limited wouldn't make this a toolbox card, insomuch that it's pretty much just going to be a lucky top deck like every other unsearchable and limited power card. It's just one of those things that don't improve on skill, but rather make it a test of who's luckier. I understand that this being a TCG means luck is a thing, but there is such a thing as making something too luck dependent, and Metamorphosis would be like that, much like Snatch Steal was. We honestly don't need any more of those, if I'm to be honest here.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

I'm on VCR's side here, though I'm more concerned with the fact that this pretty turns any level 4 into Norden, and it's probably not a very good idea to to be able to turn any level 4 into Norden.

Instant fusion doesn't even see universal play

[The Warden]

True, but unlike Instant Fusioning into Norden, you don't need your grave set-up to Metamorphosis into him.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

True, but unlike Instant Fusioning into Norden, you don't need your grave set-up to Metamorphosis into him.

But... if you have a guy on board to tribute to metamorphosis... and are aiming to have 2 on board... instant fusion into norden doesn't need to revive anything to be good...

[The Warden]

You CAN attack with the summoned Norden in Meta's case, and it just feels like a waste of a Norden summon if you aren't reviving anything with it.

[VCR_CAT]

Instant fusion doesn't even see universal play

 

Instant Fusion has far more limited plays, and is reserved mostly for decks that really love to work the R4 engine. Between decks like Monarchs and Kozmos, it makes sense that only really Dracopals really want to take advantage of it. It's not a terribly fair comparison considering that Instant Fusion only has one relevant play it does while Metamorphosis would have a much bigger toolbox.

[Kirika Akatsuki]

It just seems like overkill to me, unless you open it turn 1 and are able to stablish a good field. Otherwise, it's only good when you're in a winning position. Drawing it when you're losing won't do suddenly turn the game.

 

Those are just my thoughts on it. I'm pretty sheet at this game, so they don't mean much.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Actually, I'm going to expand on my post, because this card actually becomes utterly stupid in a lot of decks.

 

Beyond my elaboration of how ridiculously powerful this card gets, I'm already thinking of the hands you can have with Trains that not only turn this card into a +0, but can grant me a field of 81 w/ Derricrane and Exterio with stupid ease. That field, of 81 w/ Derricrane and Exterio, that's a gg; and this is still ignoring that Gaiastrio is an excellent toolbox alternative. There's nothing you can do there without shoehorning in something like Lava Golem that you can't search. Beyond that, any relatively toolboxy deck that's able to swarm with ease and get out decently high level has sudden access to a pretty good range of strong fusions to supplement their plays or extend combos. D/D's get a ridiculous number of combo extenders and easy plays using either Berfomet, or any range of their Extra Deck monsters that summon something from your grave when you summon a D/D. Frick, decks that can go Level 6 get access to frickin' Ojama King. And hey, let's not forget Odd-Eyes Vortex Dragon; can't forget that.

 

The way you look at this card is incredibly short-sighted, because you're only looking at a few examples and even then not even considering those very far. It doesn't matter if a card isn't searchable; considering the absolute sheer toolbox of this card, the splashability, lack of cost, ease of setup, you don't even need absolutely broken cards to go into. All you need is something decently strong and the ability to get it out with ease and you're golden. If anything, the only way this card was weakened is because the Level 5 or lower pool for Fusions got worse and less accessible entirely thanks to Instant Fusion. Levels from 6-10 are free game for a wide range of decks, and each level has access to even at least 1 pretty strong toolbox addition.

 

This card is way too generic, way too easy, and way too potent. If anything, I'd go as far as to say this is practically the Pot of Greed of Fusion-related cards. Absolutely never should this card come back in this current state without a significant errata.

Well let's look at Trains first, Meta is inferior to Stein in that regard. If you can make Dora, you might as well for the +1 Monster that you can protect, and then drop Last Warrior or Exterio. Add bonus of being a machine thus searchable by Geargiant.

 

I admit that I was had overlooked Odd Eyes, but isn't a +0 Searchable Odd Eyes fusion better than a -1 Meta? Both are pretty potent, and you're giving a deck another power card that it might not need, but it's out classed.

 

The vast majority of fusions these days need to be 1) Fusion Summoned (Shaddolls) 2) Have a specific way they need to be summoned and are nomi (Ritual Beast) 3) Only get their good effect if Fusion Summoned (Neo-BEUD) 

 

Could meta be more balanced? Sure. Will it likely need an errata before getting off. Yes. Are there better cards to unban. Absolutely. Is it the monster lurking under the bed you make it out to be? Not really.

[VCR_CAT]

Well let's look at Trains first, Meta is inferior to Stein in that regard. If you can make Dora, you might as well for the +1 Monster that you can protect, and then drop Last Warrior or Exterio. Add bonus of being a machine thus searchable by Geargiant.

 

Commenting on this first and foremost for some corrections.

- Stein uses the Normal Summon, and with Trains this is a very big deal. With Trains, the Normal Summon is crucial to the point that it's not something can easily just be given up, and doing Stein and Dora in a single turn requires a very specific hand. Typically not worth it in regard to the point that most of the time you're making a choice between a Rank 10 or something from Stein. The other factor is that Trains is not a Rank 4 deck. I run Gear Gigant in my deck not because I get him out a lot and make plentiful use of his effect. In fact, I very rarely use Gear Gigant. No, Gear Gigant is there for those rare moments I actually can get him out and get some pretty sweet value off of him. And again, I very often have to use a Normal Summon to get out Gear Gigant and Stein just is not happening in the turn I search him. Then, the question is if I'm actually able to use Stein on the next turn, or even if it's the smart thing to do; and this is on top of the question of "Do I want to search Ruffian or Scrap Recycler before Stein"; and buddy, those two cards are going to take a higher priority on the search list than Stein 9 times out of 10.

- The play with Metamorphosis and Dora is Night Express, Derricrane, and then Switchyard to bring a Ruffian from the deck. The Ruffian becomes level 10, Metamorphosis into Exterio and have Dora planted on the field. Already I'm going +0 on using fodder from the deck for Metamorphosis with only battle damage being sacrifice (Which is really no big deal if I'm getting out a god field like that), but Ruffian's going to search at the EP effectively making Metamorphosis into a +1 play alone. Yeah, that's a 4 card combo in hand, but I'll be danged if that's not going to win duels outright.

 

In regards to the Fusion Pool, trust me when I say that I looked through all relevant levels (I mostly ignored levels 5>/= due to the nature of how IF has limited them), and for each (levels 6-10) there was even at least 1 really solid option that was neither a nomi nor made useless by its effect only triggering on a Fusion Summon only; some levels (such as 10) having multiple REALLY GOOD monsters to go into. IF limits fusions enough already, and the huge problem with this card is that, like I said, the options don't need to be blatantly broken for it to be way too good, and already it's way too generic and way too splashable.

 

If this card received the erratum of only summoning monsters with the same type and attribute on top of the level, I would be much more willing to support this card coming back.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Commenting on this first and foremost for some corrections.

- Stein uses the Normal Summon, and with Trains this is a very big deal. With Trains, the Normal Summon is crucial to the point that it's not something can easily just be given up, and doing Stein and Dora in a single turn requires a very specific hand. Typically not worth it in regard to the point that most of the time you're making a choice between a Rank 10 or something from Stein. The other factor is that Trains is not a Rank 4 deck. I run Gear Gigant in my deck not because I get him out a lot and make plentiful use of his effect. In fact, I very rarely use Gear Gigant. No, Gear Gigant is there for those rare moments I actually can get him out and get some pretty sweet value off of him. And again, I very often have to use a Normal Summon to get out Gear Gigant and Stein just is not happening in the turn I search him. Then, the question is if I'm actually able to use Stein on the next turn, or even if it's the smart thing to do; and this is on top of the question of "Do I want to search Ruffian or Scrap Recycler before Stein"; and buddy, those two cards are going to take a higher priority on the search list than Stein 9 times out of 10.

- The play with Metamorphosis and Dora is Night Express, Derricrane, and then Switchyard to bring a Ruffian from the deck. The Ruffian becomes level 10, Metamorphosis into Exterio and have Dora planted on the field. Already I'm going +0 on using fodder from the deck for Metamorphosis with only battle damage being sacrifice (Which is really no big deal if I'm getting out a god field like that), but Ruffian's going to search at the EP effectively making Metamorphosis into a +1 play alone. Yeah, that's a 4 card combo in hand, but I'll be danged if that's not going to win duels outright.

 

In regards to the Fusion Pool, trust me when I say that I looked through all relevant levels (I mostly ignored levels 5>/= due to the nature of how IF has limited them), and for each (levels 6-10) there was even at least 1 really solid option that was neither a nomi nor made useless by its effect only triggering on a Fusion Summon only; some levels (such as 10) having multiple REALLY GOOD monsters to go into. IF limits fusions enough already, and the huge problem with this card is that, like I said, the options don't need to be blatantly broken for it to be way too good, and already it's way too generic and way too splashable.

 

If this card received the erratum of only summoning monsters with the same type and attribute on top of the level, I would be much more willing to support this card coming back.

Then I'm sorry. I'm not as knowledgeable w/ Trains as you are. In my past Exp, I've seen Dora, drop Stein end games (could be last warrior if not Exterio). Pretty sure #2 at Jap Nats sided 3 stein, (granted as Shaddoll Trains, Stein could be Winda/Beast fodder)

 

You can pretty easily get a Dora made and drop a stein the next turn. Access to to Last (thus invalidating Kaiju) is an added bonus that Meta cannot provided. 

 

I'm aware that Trains are not a r4nk deck, but they do have access to Gear if needed. The point being, I'm not aware of anything that would let them easily get Meta (gonna start running Left Arm? lol). Stein while requiring a normal, offers the deck more versatility than Meta ever could.

 

Pretty sure you can make double or maybe even triple quasar with 4 cards, don't know how much water an exterio-dora field has relative to that.

 

I was thinking a "you cannot SS any other monsters this turn" clause like what The Red Eyes fusion has, you're makes it unusable in most cases

 

 

I read it. I just think you are overperceiving the risk, a la Winter and Yata.

 

Yata is cancerous with Pendulums. I was wrong about thinking it was fine. Card cannot come back till it gets some manner of Exciton Claus slapped on it

 

The ceiling of the game as go through the roof and Pendulums can board clear and protect Yata really well be it through Ignister/Trish/Kerin or Vortex/Solemns