Lightsworn Judgment

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

When this card is activated: Place this card on top of your Deck.

If this card is sent to the Graveyard by the effect of a "Lightsworn" monster: You can add 1 "Judgment Dragon" from your Deck to your hand.

 

Just realized this was still OCG exclusive TBH. Card's relevance came up to me in the larger discussion I was having with Black about a hypothetical LS Meta. 

 

I find the idea that LS could be meta, based off a few DN players using the deck rather anecdotal, when LS can't even garner a 1% Meta Relevance in OCG based on having three of JoL, 3JD, and the same 2 CotLB as TCG.

 

In addition, Minerva peaks at around 1100 Yen (~12 USD, and that's you getting ripped off)...ie. Everyone who wants one can get one.

 

I'm not entirely sure where the idea is coming from that having an extra Juggler (0->1) or something along those lines would herald a LS meta game, etc.

 

As for this card not being imported yet, it kinda reminds me of TCG's reluctance to import the OCG errata of CED (drawing the connection to JD) when OCG erratas and exclusives that were released after these two have made their way over to TCG...fear of nukes maybe?

 

....then again Dark Hole @2 and Geki @1 speak volumes about that theory

[Blake]

I mean, I don't think Juggler is some insanely broken card that will never return.

 

I just think it was precautionary.

 

In the TCG, LS was a very strong rogue deck while Juggler existed. It's power level was comparable to the best decks (Arguable being the best deck pre-BOSH), but it was locked behind a promo/pay wall that made it not widespread.

 

OCG and TCG probably both hit Juggler to make sure it never got past that point, especially when wipes would come not too long after for the former.

 

Also this card is hot garbage.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

In the TCG, LS was a very strong rogue deck while Juggler existed.

 

OCG and TCG probably both hit Juggler to make sure it never got past that point, especially when wipes would come not too long after for the former.

 

 

Curious where you're getting #1 from. I've not heard of very many people multiple Minervas, so the idea that it could be rouge would have to be based purely on a sim, and there's a great many problems to be had if you're pulling conclusions off that.

 

I think what WAS the problem was incompetence and greed. OCG was not ready for a banlist in January, and they certainly weren't ready to hit their main cash crop in PWiz, so they scapegoated the mage-engine, (also it seemed like an attempt to weaken TT and Chain's senergy in the deck). When it was clear the goating wouldn't work, THEN they dealt with the cash crop cards.

 

TCG merely sheep'd after OCG's terrible Jan banlist with the February Adjusted one.

 

A deck that I would say might have impacted Juggler would be Dolls, but Construct didn't make it back in either list post Juggler banning, so that's shot.

 

As for Lightsworn Judgement, it's not great cause it doesn't work off either Charge or Solar, but that doesn't explain why TCG has been so reluctant to import it >:L

[Blake]

Nnnno?

 

LS fairly often did well in the TCG, provided you got your hands on a minerva.

 

TCG didn't import this because it wouldn't even see play, so why waste a slot?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Nnnno?

 

LS fairly often did well in the TCG, provided you got your hands on a minerva.

 

TCG didn't import this because it wouldn't even see play, so why waste a slot?

How many top 32's Black? How many regional wins? People DO have minervas right? If the deck was as good as it's made out to be, surely THEY would have run it?

[Blake]

How many top 32's Black? How many regional wins? People DO have minervas right? If the deck was as good as it's made out to be, surely THEY would have run it?

It was run. I don't remember the exact numbers, but Phil brought it up a fair number of times, and the deck definitely did perform. It just couldn't be called "tier 1" because so few people had the deck, and that made it appear less.

[BlackBeartic]

This is definitely one of those cards I hate just because of the concept, but in reality really isn't that good (considering most of your milling will be done by Recharge or Brigade).

 

Though let's be super fair here. If it worked off of being milled by the spells this card would be hilariously dumb. I honestly don't see a way to make this either not suck or be stupidly broken.

[Toffee.]

Problem is, This card is about as playable as Non Aggression Area.

 

....

 

And nobody plays that card, so....

[IQuitDolphin]

I mean, there were some arguments for JD in a Lightsworn deck because JD overpowers almost any toolbox you can whip out your ED with Norden, and this replaces Eclipse Wyvern in some aspects.

[evilfusion]

This is a card I despise just based on design, rather than whether it's good.

 

Firstly, it searches JD. That's stupid as hell. JD is a stupidly powerful card that requires a very luck-centric archetype, which is why it's gone untouched for eternity.

 

However, the card is actually really weak in practice. It's a Trap Card, so it's slow. And its activation effect is just to put it on top of your Deck, meaing that it literally does nothing for you if you draw it, and if you did, you have to waste a turn to Set it and despite being "chainable", it again doesn't help you to activate during the opponent's turn unless you have a Minerva (Tuner) or Ryko Set. In fact, using during your opponent's turn HURTS you by ensuring you draw it again.

 

Also, it has to be sent to the Graveyard by a Lightsworn monster effect. Well, that's the second issue with the card. Other than Raiden and I think Celestia (not counting Ryko and Minerva (Tuner) because those are a Flip Effect and Trigger Effect respectively), all the Lightsworn mill during the End Phase, so even if you hit this card to trigger the search, you can't play JD that turn anyway, because it's the End Phase.

 

It's luck-based entirely on whether you'll hit it at all, and Lightsworn run more mill cards other than their monster effects, such as Solar Recharge and Charge of the Light Brigade, neither of which will Trigger this, and yet, are far more likely to do so than the LS Monsters. Also, JD's mill won't trigger this, ironically.

 

So...while the idea of searching JD for doing literally nothing is stupid, the card is actually terrible beyond belief, because it's useless in the hand, counterproductive on the Field barring rare situations, or if it was left alone for your opponent's entire turn, letting you combo with it on your turn, and when in the Deck, you have to hope you mill it at the right time.

 

Lightsworn do not genuinely want this card. It offers the illusion of consistency. You would be much better off running almost ANY other Lightsworn or Graveyard themed card. If you're thinking of running this, and you aren't running 3 Wulf, run another Wulf. It has a LOT more going for it than this does. It's less of a dead draw than this, because it can still be ditched with Recharge, and counts as a name for JD. Run stuff like Plaguespreader or Bulb or hell, Necro Gardna, before looking at this.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

I loved how people hated on LS, complaining the deck was so reliant on drawing into JD that is was completely luck based.

 

Then they further complain about cards like monster reincarnation, and how it means they don't have to actually draw JD.

 

Then when we saw this, they complained even more about it.

 

It was just a case of ptsd from when LS were an insanely strong deck. If the deck is broken, or luck based, it invalidates the losses to it.

 

Or at least, that's the mentality, I presume.

[evilfusion]

I loved how people hated on LS, complaining the deck was so reliant on drawing into JD that is was completely luck based.

 

Then they further complain about cards like monster reincarnation, and how it means they don't have to actually draw JD.

 

Then when we saw this, they complained even more about it.

 

It was just a case of ptsd from when LS were an insanely strong deck. If the deck is broken, or luck based, it invalidates the losses to it.

 

Or at least, that's the mentality, I presume.

 

To be fair, I find Lightsworn extremely dull. There's a lot of luck involved, which can be frustrating because the only realistic approach to fighting them without specific negation/counter effects is to kill them as fast as possible, which makes you prey for JD's nuke, but not killing them as fast as possible makes you prey for JD's nuke.

 

I also occasionally feel dirty playing with the Deck, because some of the shenanigans, especially in a more "boss-oriented" build makes it viciously dangerous at all times. A long-drawn out affair against Lightsworn is going to result in what seems like a lucky topdeck, when in reality, with so many powerful bosses like BLS, CED, Lightray Diabolos, JD, Chaos Sorcerer, Synchro options, Sephylon if you're being weird like me, etc, it's inevitable that you'll often go from no field to abruptly 8000+ on the board after a Field wipe, and in some games, even having like 3 backrow each with a negation or other neutralizing effect won't be enough to protect you.

 

But I think it's the archetype's infamy that has earned it all the hatred. That said, I still am very happy with the Lightsworn Structure, because 3 of those pretty much gave you a completed LS Main Deck.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Minerva XYZ and Raiden both Trigger it, that's all you really need. As for the effect, I remember once using this to dodge Exciton hehe

[evilfusion]

Minerva XYZ and Raiden both Trigger it, that's all you really need. As for the effect, I remember once using this to dodge Exciton hehe

 

Minerva Xyz is too exclusive, TCG side, for me to count it.

 

Also...do Lightsworn actually get many options to Xyz early game? Other than Raiden milling Wulf, I'm not sure how often I end up with 2 Level 4s out without going into a Synchro instead.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

I'm not denying that JD was a completely insane card. But until relatively recently, just about the entire site wrote them off as a skilless luck sack based deck, which honestly wasn't the case before, and isn't the case now.

 

The original thread for this card kinda became a giant war about that mentality, iirc.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Minerva Xyz is too exclusive, TCG side, for me to count it.

 

Also...do Lightsworn actually get many options to Xyz early game? Other than Raiden milling Wulf, I'm not sure how often I end up with 2 Level 4s out without going into a Synchro instead.

I assume they do in TCG cause of Noden, OCG side you have to mill Clown or Wulf (like you noted) to do so. But I've really never seen (meta) LS being used in OCG, even with easy access to Minerva....cause the deck is just too damn fragile. Casual wise, Chaos Sworn I guess.

[evilfusion]

I'm not denying that JD was a completely insane card. But until relatively recently, just about the entire site wrote them off as a skilless luck sack based deck, which honestly wasn't the case before, and isn't the case now.

 

The original thread for this card kinda became a giant war about that mentality, iirc.

 

I vaguely recall that as well.

 

The thing I've noticed with my current LS Deck (not competitive level by any means) is the weird tendency to be completely annihilated if it opened even remotely poorly. And by remotely poorly I mean "didn't open Raiden or one of the main Spells...some of which are to search Raiden".

 

Like, it crushes things with ease if it gets a remotely decent opening, or it does the equivalent of bricking despite having a hand of functional cards, it's just that certain things shut them down on the spot early game, such as Compulsory, or god forbid, Pleiades.

[Blake]

Only thing I really had against LS is fear.

 

I'm not going to call them skilless, but funk if it's not annoying to play against them due to the fear factor of "but what if they milled the nuts".

 

It's like an opening hand, but with many more shots at hitting.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

I vaguely recall that as well.

 

The thing I've noticed with my current LS Deck (not competitive level by any means) is the weird tendency to be completely annihilated if it opened even remotely poorly. And by remotely poorly I mean "didn't open Raiden or one of the main Spells...some of which are to search Raiden".

 

Like, it crushes things with ease if it gets a remotely decent opening, or it does the equivalent of bricking despite having a hand of functional cards, it's just that certain things shut them down on the spot early game, such as Compulsory, or god forbid, Pleiades.

I mean, 75% chance of opening raiden in 5 cards, and with a 6th it becomes 90%, so despite whatever reliance there may be (i wouldn't know), the odds are pretty damn good.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

LS have a deck full of monkeyboards is how I'd describe it, one card card turn the duel around. This card can help you get to that one card is all I'm saying. That being said, Beckoning Light is likely a better option for the deck

 

Also, Chaos wouldn't go near this card, JS. They have much better engines, and JD isn't what it used to be

[The Highlander]

I mean, 75% chance of opening raiden in 5 cards, and with a 6th it becomes 90%, so despite whatever reliance there may be (i wouldn't know), the odds are pretty damn good.

If you draw 1 the odds of not getting one are 37/40 = 92.5%.

2 => (37/40) * (36/39) = 85.384...%

3 => above * (35/38) = 78.64...%

4 => above * (34/37) = 72.267...%

5 => above * (33/36) = 66.2449...%

6 => above * (32/35) = 60.5668...%

So your chances of getting at least 1 are 33.7 ...% if you open with 5 and 39.43...% if you open with 6.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

If you draw 1 the odds of not getting one are 37/40 = 92.5%.

2 => (37/40) * (36/39) = 85.384...%

3 => above * (35/38) = 78.64...%

4 => above * (34/37) = 72.267...%

5 => above * (33/36) = 66.2449...%

6 => above * (32/35) = 60.5668...%

So your chances of getting at least 1 are 33.7 ...% if you open with 5 and 39.43...% if you open with 6.

You seem to forget that decks contain 6 raiden

 

This isn't even going into Solar Recharge.

[Slinky]

If you draw 1 the odds of not getting one are 37/40 = 92.5%.

2 => (37/40) * (36/39) = 85.384...%

3 => above * (35/38) = 78.64...%

4 => above * (34/37) = 72.267...%

5 => above * (33/36) = 66.2449...%

6 => above * (32/35) = 60.5668...%

So your chances of getting at least 1 are 33.7 ...% if you open with 5 and 39.43...% if you open with 6.

 

+ ROTA + 2 copies of Charge

 

so its actually 6 copies instead of 3 copies, which still equates to less than what Giga said, but its still substantially larger.

[evilfusion]

Oh good, I was just about to ask whether the odds were factoring in the cards that can search Raiden.

[The Highlander]

I mean, 75% chance of opening raiden in 5 cards, and with a 6th it becomes 90%, so despite whatever reliance there may be (i wouldn't know), the odds are pretty damn good.

including charge at 2 and rota.

1 => (34/40) = 85%

2 => above * (33/39) = 71.9...%

3 => above * (32/38) = 60.5668...%

4 => above * (31/37) = 50.7...%

5 => above * (30/36) = 42.2876...%

6 => above * (29/35) = 35.038...%

 

Unless I forgot a card that should be mentioned to increase the odds the chances are more than 57% if you open with 5 cards and more than 64% if you open with 6 cards that you open with raiden.

I could technicly also take recharge into account, but that would be a bit much work for only a rough change.