C&D Filed Against DN

[Goose]

Someone filed a C&D against DN claiming they represented a company that owns certain rights for YGO and demanding the pictures be removed.

 

https://ygorganization.com/cd-order-filed-against-dueling-network/

 

Thoughts?

[Trebuchet MS]

Citations needed. From that company.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

After nearly 5 years of Dueling Network being around, I'd like to point out that Dueling Network going away would be one of the best possible things for the competitive community.

- Near monopoly on it's respective market, which allowed it to coast on its own success and just refuse to fix any of its problems in recent times. DN dying would be vacuum for innovation.

- The decline of DGZ has nearly mirrored the rise of DN. People think that grinding DN rated is a substitute for competitive discussion. I guarantee that we'd see a spike in activity.

 

Allen said it best. DN has a basic monopoly on the market and stagnates the whole deal. Look at it from a economic stand point. You have an oligopoly, with one firm being the dominant alpha (DN), that firm largely tilts the standards for the market and the rest of the firms cannot overcome it without collusion, with would contrast their individual interests.

 

DN has MANY flaws. They refuse to even begin updating till the date of release, they completely ignored half the game with OCG, Tag Rules have been in place for who knows how long, DN/DNF has it's own sheet storm of staff corruption, and one dude plays Dragon with DN. All in all, DN reached it's ceiling of growth and can improve no further. All it has going for it, is the legacy of being the best and having the player base from that era

 

Now before Manual vs Auto is brought up. The smaller firms will eventually begin to fade as they can't match the Alpha, to counteract this we've seen a bit of collusion with Salvation's head reaching out, but it's not enough. They're not devoted enough to pouring in time and effort to iron out every code cause half the funkers will still go to DN anyway.

 

In this regard, the Death of DN will force the Pros to improve and add new features. 

 

The only way to make a market thrive it to break up the monopoly or near monopoly, which in this case is DN

 

Good funking riddens

[epicmemesbro]

Dueling Network is packed with sheer chaos, a lot of people are refusing to duel. Apparently Konami was not behind this. There is a possibility that the perpetrator that hacked DN is connected. It might not be a loss for images to be removed, since it may load a tad faster. 

[Mr Dr Professor Spaz]

My comment on the matter is that the C&D was from Nihon Ad Systems, who licenses the anime. They have literally nothing else to do with the trading card game. If this somehow makes it to court, the burden of proof would be on them to show how a 3rd party simulator of the card game financially harms the Yugioh anime itself.

[Blake]

It's fine in the long run, because Konami has a Hearthstone-style client coming out later this year. Yeah, testing/tournaments on DN would be nice, but it could be worse, and you can test for basics on the Pros.

 

After nearly 5 years of Dueling Network being around, I'd like to point out that Dueling Network going away would be one of the best possible things for the competitive community.

- Near monopoly on it's respective market, which allowed it to coast on its own success and just refuse to fix any of its problems in recent times. DN dying would be vacuum for innovation.

- The decline of DGZ has nearly mirrored the rise of DN. People think that grinding DN rated is a substitute for competitive discussion. I guarantee that we'd see a spike in activity.

 

Allen said it best. DN has a basic monopoly on the market and stagnates the whole deal. Look at it from a economic stand point. You have an oligopoly, with one firm being the dominant alpha (DN), that firm largely tilts the standards for the market and the rest of the firms cannot overcome it without collusion, with would contrast their individual interests.

 

DN has MANY flaws. They refuse to even begin updating till the date of release, they completely ignored half the game with OCG, Tag Rules have been in place for who knows how long, DN/DNF has it's own sheet storm of staff corruption, and one dude plays Dragon with DN. All in all, DN reached it's ceiling of growth and can improve no further. All it has going for it, is the legacy of being the best and having the player base from that era

 

Now before Manual vs Auto is brought up. The smaller firms will eventually begin to fade as they can't match the Alpha, to counteract this we've seen a bit of collusion with Salvation's head reaching out, but it's not enough. They're not devoted enough to pouring in time and effort to iron out every code cause half the funkers will still go to DN anyway.

 

In this regard, the Death of DN will force the Pros to improve and add new features. 

 

The only way to make a market thrive it to break up the monopoly or near monopoly, which in this case is DN

 

Good funking riddens

@Bold: Are you even funking listening to yourself?

 

How in the hell is not updating until release day bad? That's them keeping cards that are FAIRLY OFTEN errata'd before release away from the site, which is exactly what happened with LPD. That's keeping the site from being hurt. Yes, they could do it with the unrated only cards, but that still has issues in that the cards would have to be deleted and readded, and it just makes more work overall.

 

The game is TCG based. Shut the funk up about the OCG, no one cares. If you want an OCG DN, have one made, stop jabroniing that a site aimed at perpetuating the TCG game doesn't go out of its way to implement a new format which, if you hadn't noticed, does not have enough demand.

 

What it has going for it... Well, I'm sick of saying it ,but a better testing/competitive environment.

 

@the business comparison: Again, people go to the pros for speed/early testing. That's their niche. DN's niche is quality testing. They are inherently flawed, because you cannot get all rulings 100%, miscoding is frequent, and there are timing issues present, in general.

 

At least DN mimics real life game flaws, as opposed to suffering through ADDITIONAL flaws that are beyond control.

 

Also, for the "force to improve" argument... funking no?

 

Cardfight has one client; Cardfight Area. It's a really bad client, rarely updates, and so on. It's the only client available. The pros fall under this, as well, given that they're all the same base client, and they have the userbases they would have anyways, minus maybe a handful.

[Toffee.]

DN used to release cards early/not fully confirmed/etc.

But that ended during Inzektor era.

 

I mean, early versions of Mantis, for example, said the equipped monster gained 2400; You can see how well that turned out.

[Blake]

DN used to release cards early/not fully confirmed/etc.

But that ended during Inzektor era.

 

I mean, early versions of Mantis, for example, said the equipped monster gained 2400; You can see how well that turned out.

Biggest reason was Lightpulsar FTK.

[Toffee.]

Biggest reason was Lightpulsar FTK.

Lightpulsar saying "If" was really funking stupid.

[Sander]

My comment on the matter is that the C&D was from Nihon Ad Systems, who licenses the anime. They have literally nothing else to do with the trading card game. If this somehow makes it to court, the burden of proof would be on them to show how a 3rd party simulator of the card game financially harms the Yugioh anime itself.

 

Konami has very likely signed over the rights to NAS to act. Why would they be doing this if that was not the case?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It's fine in the long run, because Konami has a Hearthstone-style client coming out later this year. Yeah, testing/tournaments on DN would be nice, but it could be worse, and you can test for basics on the Pros.

 

@Bold: Are you even funking listening to yourself?

 

How in the hell is not updating until release day bad? That's them keeping cards that are FAIRLY OFTEN errata'd before release away from the site, which is exactly what happened with LPD. That's keeping the site from being hurt. Yes, they could do it with the unrated only cards, but that still has issues in that the cards would have to be deleted and readded, and it just makes more work overall.

 

The game is TCG based. Shut the funk up about the OCG, no one cares. If you want an OCG DN, have one made, stop jabroniing that a site aimed at perpetuating the TCG game doesn't go out of its way to implement a new format which, if you hadn't noticed, does not have enough demand.

 

What it has going for it... Well, I'm sick of saying it ,but a better testing/competitive environment.

 

@the business comparison: Again, people go to the pros for speed/early testing. That's their niche. DN's niche is quality testing. They are inherently flawed, because you cannot get all rulings 100%, miscoding is frequent, and there are timing issues present, in general.

 

At least DN mimics real life game flaws, as opposed to suffering through ADDITIONAL flaws that are beyond control.

 

Also, for the "force to improve" argument... funking no?

 

Cardfight has one client; Cardfight Area. It's a really bad client, rarely updates, and so on. It's the only client available. The pros fall under this, as well, given that they're all the same base client, and they have the userbases they would have anyways, minus maybe a handful.

It's bad cause there's really no excuse for cards that KONAMI OF JAPAN  puts out on their twitter is there now? LPD was a shitty v-jump scan. As was Juregedo as was Harpies (not sure on this one). There is literally no funking reason NOT to trust what the KoJ twitter pages says when it puts a card out.

 

OCG, what makes the game "TCG" oriented? That's like saying Disk Commander has no impact on the meta...well no funking sheet, its banned and locked out from ever having an impact. Similar with OCG; if you shut out any avenue for it to gain popularity, of course there won't be demand. 

 

As for the game being TCG, sure I'd buy that...if every other platform also didn't have the OCG list...oh wait...they do...this is just a case of BLS not trusting anyone else to code, and pulling a "we're TCG only" ass pull to cover that up

 

You can't get all the ruling right on pro, you can't get all the cards or all the actions right on DN either. Yeah you can say exchange is never used, but it's not like DN is anywhere near a perfect testing ground for the RL...when's the last time you had to wait an hour for an admin to clear up a MST negates during a YCS or a YOT?

 

Know what that is black? You said it yourself, it's the ONLY one. It has a monopoly on the market and thus has no initiative to improve. The pro's infighting creates a free-market where they will constantly improve to try to outdo the other.

Lightpulsar saying "If" was really funking stupid.

LPD saying IF, and having a Hard OPT would have been perfection TBH, shame they didn't come up with the concept of a Hard OPT until Tachyon Galaxy

 

 

That all being said, I have a paper to finish and I'm on the wire, if I don't respond it's not cause I'm ignoring or anything...I just have to finish this damn paper

[ihop]

Winter you have to realise you are in the minority and 99% of the playerbase do not give a shiny sheet about playing OCG.

[Toffee.]

Inzektors was the last time they did early release/rough translations/etc, which is why I mentioned it. But whatever.

 

Winter you have to realise you are in the minority and 99% of the playerbase do not give a shiny sheet about playing OCG.

The majority of DN plays a ghetto TCG + OCG game.

Ranked can be either TCG or OCG, but still.

[ihop]

DNCG and OCG are entirely different things.

[Toffee.]

DNCG and OCG are entirely different things.

Oh, you know what I mean...

[goodfusion]

I don't really care what happens to Dueling Network itself, I just like having an easy to access (browser-based) and not automated way to play Ygo.

 

I kind of agree with Winter however in that more support for the OCG format would be nice.

[IQuitDolphin]

YGOPro, DevPro is all consolidated under one main backend, so the most they can do is improve the frontend client that links to the backend, or enter the upstream. Upstream coding is where the xPro backend is actually improved, but development appears to be stagnating anyways.

 

DN has its issues, but it's centralized, has a solid foundation, great player base if you ask for them, a reasonable release date on cards, and is loaded with intuitive features. All the xPro clients bloat themselves with worthless junk that people will never touch (Puzzle Mode lol).

 

----

 

Analogy: Killing off DN (Windows) may open up the door for competition in the xPro department (Linux), but it's not like they haven't already been competing, and taking down the top dog won't magically make development speed increase since all the clients (distributions) are relatively equivalent - they have the same backend (which is where all the important automation rules are), but they only ever work on their frontend (which is only good for aesthetics).

[byak]

flash applications in 2016 EleGiggle

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I have to ask because I've never known. What ARE the legalities of DN? Because I honestly thought they had some kind of permission and apparently not?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

The circular logic of DN is some really classy sheet.

 

We won't have OCG on DN cause people aren't playing it

 

By not making a section, or in anyway acknowledging that OCG exists you kill any interest in OCG

 

Then you turn around and use that same lack of activity to say that people won't play OCG

 

 

@Cow, there's Proper TCG, Adjusted TCG, and fake TCG were people play in a fake format with OCG card, but following the TCG list

 

Basicically the only legality DN has is TCG. This works fine for people who feel that OCG is an agressive format and don't want to play under it, but it certainly hammers the rest of us who disagree with that idea

 

YGOPro, DevPro is all consolidated under one main backend, so the most they can do is improve the frontend client that links to the backend, or enter the upstream. Upstream coding is where the xPro backend is actually improved, but development appears to be stagnating anyways.

 

DN has its issues, but it's centralized, has a solid foundation, great player base if you ask for them, a reasonable release date on cards, and is loaded with intuitive features. All the xPro clients bloat themselves with worthless junk that people will never touch (Puzzle Mode lol).

 

----

 

Analogy: Killing off DN (Windows) may open up the door for competition in the xPro department (Linux), but it's not like they haven't already been competing, and taking down the top dog won't magically make development speed increase since all the clients (distributions) are relatively equivalent - they have the same backend (which is where all the important automation rules are), but they only ever work on their frontend (which is only good for aesthetics).

Any improvement is better than no improvement. Guess when the last time DN did a non-list update :)

 

Winter you have to realise you are in the minority and 99% of the playerbase do not give a shiny sheet about playing OCG.

Well mate, I think we've reached a good point in our relationship, so I'm not interested in tarnishing it any further.

 

But I've got to say, you of all people dismissing the minority, comes off as a little shocking.

 

Honestly don't have much else to say about this.

 

I hope DN gets shut down, y'all may not, to each his own

 

@Winter: I think you misinterpreted Cow's post. He wasn't on about legalities as in game formats.

So it seems

[~British Soul~]

@Winter: I think you misinterpreted Cow's post. He wasn't on about legalities as in game formats.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Isn't the fact that DN is a website built for and by Western players, who by default play the TCG not the OCG. It's playerbase have no choice for the most part, they are TCG players because of Geography. You can't change that by adding a DN format that barely anyone would play seriously. It's not cyclical, it's just incredible simple. 

 

And Winter, I'm pretty sure CowCow meant legalities as in actual legal standing to use Konami's works. Not banlists. To which I have no idea either, but it was a non profit so about as much as a wikia I guess? The C&D will just be because as Black says a HS equivilant is coming so it's easier to kill of the noticeable competition 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Isn't the fact that DN is a website built for and by Western players, who by default play the TCG not the OCG. It's playerbase have no choice for the most part, they are TCG players because of Geography. You can't change that by adding a DN format that barely anyone would play seriously. It's not cyclical, it's just incredible simple. 

 

And Winter, I'm pretty sure CowCow meant legalities as in actual legal standing to use Konami's works. Not banlists. To which I have no idea either, but it was a non profit so about as much as a wikia I guess? The C&D will just be because as Black says a HS equivilant is coming so it's easier to kill of the noticeable competition

 

And th reason for the US based Pros having OCG? The OCG list is just the lastest in DN's long series of cop outs? We were both on DNF back in 2012. Remeber Tag?

 

First it was, "there's no rules, so we won't add tag"

 

Rules came out, the excuse became "we only said we wouldn't add as long as rules, didn't say we would add them if we got rules ;)"

 

You can eat it up, but when every other program is adding features and DN plays godfather and stifles them all while staying stuck in 2013, it irritates me.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I have to ask because I've never known. What ARE the legalities of DN? Because I honestly thought they had some kind of permission and apparently not?

 

I'm not really sure what the legalities are with regards to what DN can/cannot do either, so apologies if I'm not much help here. I would assume that as long as they don't make money off of the use of the cards or images, they should be fine using them. They didn't have any issues doing it up until now; if NAS/Konami or whoever didn't like it back then, they would've filed this much earlier.

 

(There was a note about them using the card sleeves at an earlier time, but that's about it.)

 

Though, the laws of usage may be different in other countries than what they are in the US (if they exist); I don't know about laws in those places and how much they will apply.

 

-----

With that in mind, I've been staying on YGOPro most of the time lately (due to more frequent updates on part of YGOHack and other factors) so these changes to DN won't really bother me too much. Though, I will admit that it is much easier to play on DN as opposed to YGOPro, even with the playerbase at times and updates. If we get another browser-based thing to check cards, then I'd be fine with it.

[IQuitDolphin]

Just make a web-based deck constructor w/ importer-exporter for YGOPro with a chatbox and people will flock to it like wildfire.