Perfomage Plushfire

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

Pendulum Effect If a "Performage" monster(s) you control is destroyed by battle or card effect: You can Special Summon this card from your Pendulum Zone, then take 500 damage. You can only use this effect of "Performage Plushfire" once per turn.

 

Monster Effect If this card on the field is destroyed by battle or card effect: You can Special Summon 1 "Performage" monster from your hand or Deck, except "Performage Plushfire".

 

Here we see the Super Rejuv of the current age. A card unfairly hit to "help" balance a deck that subsequently shows that it would not be so.

 

This card is perfectly balanced at 1. How's that? Let's look at the interactions that broke it. 

 

Luster+Plush: Luster & Clash (o) are limited, even if you got Luster+Plush, with Plush limited, the Combo won't work

 

Wizard+Plush: The Wizard, Crobat, and Monkey search cycle is eviscerated (banned or limited in OCG, hit a fair bit in TCG). Being able to time Plush and Wizard at the same time is not all that likely with the "glue" factor between the two decks, Lavaval Chain, being banned too now

 

Wavering Eyes: 1) Plush would be limited, so set two plush, Eyes is gone. Also Eyes is also at 1 now. Statistically unlikely to be of any real use.

 

But what IF you do get Sorc/Eyes+Plush? Well then it's still fine, because at that point it's just Yang Zings. You can crash it to get a float, or you can use a secondary effect to get a float.

 

Lies, you can pendulum summon Plush back and pop it again. Fair, so Plushfire has a Twice per turn in the best case scenario?  You're investing two card to make a pendulum summon possible, guess what else you can do. Invest in something like creation, suddenly your yang zings are "twice" per turn too.

 

But Plush tools out better cards. What at the current good options? Trick Clown and Mirror Conductor. For one, neither of them have the float potential of Yang Zing. Trick clown would allow you one two more bodies potentially stopping an OTK. Conductor can flip the attack and defense of a monster to potentially out locks and such.

 

So what's the ideal play? Wavering Eyes on Plush and Ariadne, grab Solemn+Trick clown. Add a relevant scale. Summon Joker (which you already had), add Wizard, Summon Feral Imp, summon clown, add the other scale. PS Plush, Wizard, and Ariadne. Pop plush and Ariadne summon. Add another counter trap and summon Conductor in defense. Make Rafflesia? That's nothing significant there seeing that opening Twin Twister or Duster pretty much sets everything you did back.

 

Bottom line, Plush was NOT the problem. It was and will always be the pals and that's what needs to be hit.

[Slinky]

Short Version: No.

 

Long Version: Card is ridiculous. You might have a point /if the card wasn't a pendulum/. But it is a pendulum, and that is what ultimately breaks the card because you can destroy it, get a monster, then pendulum summon it back for more floating. And you can repeat this every turn as desired. The advantages it gives you is far too great to allow at all, and Konami funked up big time by not giving it an opt clause, because the lack of it only digs its grave deeper.

[Blake]

This post is sensationalist bullshit, but what else should I have been expecting.

 

Your strongest argument is that it requires setup, but... no sheet? That's a given. 

 

Sky Iris exists. Ignister exists. A LOT of 1-of ways to pop it exist. Dark Hole exists (and don't argue against it, YZ do the same sheet and Pendulums don't care about dark holing themselves, especially for a +), Twin Twister exists and the option to pop this is real, and so on.

 

A floater that floats further is an unfair design, stop trying to blame the Ppals for this. It's not their fault that this is broken, and they have enough blood on their hands. This is just an unfair design that promotes pendulums going in a terrible direction.

 

The fact that Performages have 10~+ anime cards to be printed further implies this is just going to get stronger and stronger when they finally see print. It's not fair, it's not going to be fair, get over it already, especially when it hasn't even been banned long enough to pitch a fit over it. Like, 3 months, and you can't wait longer? Really?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Short Version: No.

 

Long Version: Card is ridiculous. You might have a point /if the card wasn't a pendulum/. But it is a pendulum, and that is what ultimately breaks the card because you can destroy it, get a monster, then pendulum summon it back for more floating. And you can repeat this every turn as desired. The advantages it gives you is far too great to allow at all, and Konami funked up big time by not giving it an opt clause, because the lack of it only digs its grave deeper.

Pendulum summoning requires a 2 card investment. And an investment that needs to be protected. That's like saying Guarded Treasure is broken.

 

You're only going to run 3-4 Plush targets anyway. I assume 1-2 Clown and 1 Conductor, and if  Juggler is unbanned as well, one of him. You're not going to be able to pendulum summon "EVERYTURN" cause you won't have targets after 2.

 

The OPT doesn't matter because he has a functional 1.5 PT on him

 

It's easy to say no, harder to have a good reason why

[Slinky]

Pendulum summoning requires a 2 card investment. And an investment that needs to be protected. That's like saying Guarded Treasure is broken.

 

You're only going to run 3-4 Plush targets anyway. I assume 1-2 Clown and 1 Conductor, and if  Juggler is unbanned as well, one of him. You're not going to be able to pendulum summon "EVERYTURN" cause you won't have targets after 2.

 

The OPT doesn't matter because he has a functional 1.5 PT on him

 

It's easy to say no, harder to have a good reason why

 

.. Did you just compare the sensational plus engine known as pendulums to a completely irrelevant card like Guarded Treasure? If you mst Treasure, its gone for good, if you mst a pendulum, it's only a minor setback, and if they happen to have another pendulum, its just more plussing instead of a minor setback.

 

Furthermore, Treasure isn't an investment, its a suicide card. Its dead significantly more often than it isnt, because it has an extremely high cost of specifically discarding 5 cards. It isn't place 2 on field then proceed to plus like nobodys business.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

This post is sensationalist bullshit, but what else should I have been expecting.

 

Your strongest argument is that it requires setup, but... no sheet? That's a given. 

 

Sky Iris exists. Ignister exists. A LOT of 1-of ways to pop it exist. Dark Hole exists (and don't argue against it, YZ do the same sheet and Pendulums don't care about dark holing themselves, especially for a +), Twin Twister exists and the option to pop this is real, and so on.

 

A floater that floats further is an unfair design, stop trying to blame the Ppals for this. It's not their fault that this is broken, and they have enough blood on their hands. This is just an unfair design that promotes pendulums going in a terrible direction.

 

The fact that Performages have 10~+ anime cards to be printed further implies this is just going to get stronger and stronger when they finally see print. It's not fair, it's not going to be fair, get over it already, especially when it hasn't even been banned long enough to pitch a fit over it. Like, 3 months, and you can't wait longer? Really?

And this post is just the same dismissive handwave as usual

 

My argument it that it doesn't do much even without set up. It's a float into 2/3 card that 1) OPT Self-Floats 2) Swaps attack 3) Searches one of the pre-affirmed cards. 

 

So you're damning this card cause there are card that can trigger it outside of Wizard and Eyes? Well hold on there, something like BA or even Shaddolls float off a lot more than just simple destruction and they're at multiples. Twin Twister exists? TT Target one opponent and Plush? Giving up three cards to take 1 from opponent and gain one off Plush...uh and that's great how? The opponent does it? So you have a scale that the opponent will be reluctant to pop...that's like saying sangan set pass is good because the opponent would be reluctant to kill it.

 

The pals don't have enough blood on their hands because the topping ratio of Dracopals was HIGHER than Pure PEPE. If anything Mages clogged down the deck. And even three months is too much when all this card's ban says is that KoJ wanted to sell gold series before hitting Wizard instead of care about game balance

 

 

 

.. Did you just compare the sensational plus engine known as pendulums to a completely irrelevant card like Guarded Treasure? If you mst Treasure, its gone for good, if you mst a pendulum, it's only a minor setback, and if they happen to have another pendulum, its just more plussing instead of a minor setback.

 

Furthermore, Treasure isn't an investment, its a suicide card. Its dead significantly more often than it isnt, because it has an extremely high cost of specifically discarding 5 cards. It isn't place 2 on field then proceed to plus like nobodys business.

 

Treasure is irrelevant, just like Plush would be with the current hits. Guarded Treasure is trash, not denying that.

 

What I'm saying is the Plush loses all it's utility after 1-2 turns at best. Further hurt by the fact that running more mages to get it off will also make the chance of drawing said mages higher as well, thus making plushy dead once again. Plush has a functional cap of twice per turn. It'll end up like ariadne. After turn 1, you only see Ariadne summoned as a lv 4 body not for it's effects. 

 

Being suicide isn't mutually exclusive from being investment btw.

 

 

@Black 

 

KoJ released a statement apologizing for Pepe and affirming that it was on their mind not to repeat. Looking at the starter deck they seem to be holding to the pledge pretty well. You can't say that future support for the mages will break plush again when 1) most of us can't see the future 2) the only data points we have so far suggest that the future support will be weakened with pepe in mind

 

ie Longhorn Bull for pals

[Blake]

And this post is just the same dismissive handwave as usual

 

My argument it that it doesn't do much even without set up. It's a float into 2/3 card that 1) OPT Self-Floats 2) Swaps attack 3) Searches one of the pre-affirmed cards. 

 

So you're damning this card cause there are card that can trigger it outside of Wizard and Eyes? Well hold on there, something like BA or even Shaddolls float off a lot more than just simple destruction and they're at multiples. Twin Twister exists? TT Target one opponent and Plush? Giving up three cards to take 1 from opponent and gain one off Plush...uh and that's great how? The opponent does it? So you have a scale that the opponent will be reluctant to pop...that's like saying sangan set pass is good because the opponent would be reluctant to kill it.

 

The pals don't have enough blood on their hands because the topping ratio of Dracopals was HIGHER than Pure PEPE. If anything Mages clogged down the deck. And even three months is too much when all this card's ban says is that KoJ wanted to sell gold series before hitting Wizard instead of care about game balance

Maybe, just maybe, if you put actual thought into the game, people wouldn't funking dismiss what you say.

 

It can more than OPT self-float. I gave multiple examples of such. Not to mention it's a Level 4 Pendulum, which means it's insanely good, and you just choose to ignore this.

 

They float a lot more because THEY DON'T FLOAT INHERENTLY. You're arguing an infinite floater with extra float capability is fair. 

 

Twin Twister point is a versatility comment, which are the kind you always act as if don't exist. Like, y'know, Swincobra? It's not like -1 proccing (-1 hand, -1 spell, -1 Pendulum, +1 opp card, +1 float) in order to win the game is bad, on a PENDULUM THAT IMMEDIATELY RETURNS no less. It's not like Frightfur Tiger never -1 pops Toy Vendor in order to get a search. This is a point gleaned from actually playing the game, not spouting out theory.

 

so what you're saying is that the deck is unfair in its own regards, but another deck did better so its fair? Do you not know how to form a straight argument?

 

3 months for a horribly unfair design that they apologized for. Gee, wonder why it's on the list and they aren't overly concerned with cleaning out the list like you. Oh wait, I remember! Because when you pull things off the list, things can go horribly wrong. Like DAD. Stop losing your sheet over the list existing, it exists for a reason.

 

Also lmfao at guarded treasure, that's almost as good as crystal beasts top tier.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Maybe, just maybe, if you put actual thought into the game, people wouldn't funking dismiss what you say.

 

It can more than OPT self-float. I gave multiple examples of such. Not to mention it's a Level 4 Pendulum, which means it's insanely good, and you just choose to ignore this.

 

They float a lot more because THEY DON'T FLOAT INHERENTLY. You're arguing an infinite floater with extra float capability is fair. 

 

Twin Twister point is a versatility comment, which are the kind you always act as if don't exist. Like, y'know, Swincobra? It's not like -1 proccing (-1 hand, -1 spell, -1 Pendulum, +1 opp card, +1 float) in order to win the game is bad, on a PENDULUM THAT IMMEDIATELY RETURNS no less. It's not like Frightfur Tiger never -1 pops Toy Vendor in order to get a search. This is a point gleaned from actually playing the game, not spouting out theory.

 

so what you're saying is that the deck is unfair in its own regards, but another deck did better so its fair? Do you not know how to form a straight argument?

 

3 months for a horribly unfair design that they apologized for. Gee, wonder why it's on the list and they aren't overly concerned with cleaning out the list like you. Oh wait, I remember! Because when you pull things off the list, things can go horribly wrong. Like DAD. Stop losing your sheet over the list existing, it exists for a reason.

 

Also lmfao at guarded treasure, that's almost as good as crystal beasts top tier.

I have been saying it has a cap of a twice per turn, with the chance of that being limited to once being realistic. Infinite on the other hand is unreasonable seeing at most you've got 5 targets. Even at a TPT and Juggler at 1, this card is dead t2

 

I don't think that's bad mate, if you can summon Clown for that extra 1600 for game. Dope. I'm saying that's not really broken and it not usually the norm. Not sure why you suddenly think I don't play this game or am blinded by some agenda

 

As for blaming pals, Pals topped more after getting rid of the mages...what does that imply dear sir if not that Mages were the weak underbelly of the deck.

 

The apologize and promised not to make anything that could plus as much in the future. If anything that says the future support of mages and pals will be weaker and more manageable 

 

Not sure why're bringing up DAD. Dark Armed was semi-limited April 1st 2014 OCG, limited again October 1st 2014 OCG. It was inconsequential for the entirety of one format and only a problem after they decide to gut Rulers and Chronofacts to peddle two Dark Decks to the #1 spot. If you're going to shoot yourself in the foot, stop blaming the cards for your stupidity. 

 

What does irritate me is situations like OCG and Goyo/MoF where cards should be unbanned and are banned on some stupid neglect principle when they in reality would do NOTHING. 

 

@CB did I really say that rofl haha

[Blake]

I have been saying it has a cap of a twice per turn, with the chance of that being limited to once being realistic. Infinite on the other hand is unreasonable seeing at most you've got 5 targets. Even at a TPT and Juggler at 1, this card is dead t2

 

I don't think that's bad mate, if you can summon Clown for that extra 1600 for game. Dope. I'm saying that's not really broken and it not usually the norm. Not sure why you suddenly think I don't play this game or am blinded by some agenda

 

As for blaming pals, Pals topped more after getting rid of the mages...what does that imply dear sir if not that Mages were the weak underbelly of the deck.

 

The apologize and promised not to make anything that could plus as much in the future. If anything that says the future support of mages and pals will be weaker and more manageable 

 

Not sure why're bringing up DAD. Dark Armed was semi-limited April 1st 2014 OCG, limited again October 1st 2014 OCG. It was inconsequential for the entirety of one format and only a problem after they decide to gut Rulers and Chronofacts to peddle two Dark Decks to the #1 spot. If you're going to shoot yourself in the foot, stop blaming the cards for your stupidity. 

 

What does irritate me is situations like OCG and Goyo/MoF where cards should be unbanned and are banned on some stupid neglect principle when they in reality would do NOTHING. 

 

@CB did I really say that rofl haha

It is an infinite floater. It has targets that further allow it to float. This means, even by your logic, you can get an additional +5 per game with it for no reason. Who CARES if it's dead by T2, it put you stupidly far ahead. How is that hard to grasp?

 

I think you don't play because you insist on changes that need to be made, but every time Konami makes a hasty list decision it bites the game in the ass. You spout theory with no substance, and adamantly defend things that don't deserve it.

 

Pals being better without mages =/= Mages are bad, especially with other stuff hit down. That is such backwards logic.

 

That... has nothing to do with anything. In fact ,this is circular logic on your part that doesn't help you. If they're getting more support, that means it ISN'T dead by T2. You can argue they'll be lower quality, but the situation favors the situation with fewer assumptions. And that situation is the one that more targets = more unfair.

 

DAD is an example of poor list decisions. Even without pushing DARK, it was still an unfair card that should not move up the list. Hastily making decisions, especially in a new era, is a bad idea.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It is an infinite floater. It has targets that further allow it to float. This means, even by your logic, you can get an additional +5 per game with it for no reason. Who CARES if it's dead by T2, it put you stupidly far ahead. How is that hard to grasp?

 

I think you don't play because you insist on changes that need to be made, but every time Konami makes a hasty list decision it bites the game in the ass. You spout theory with no substance, and adamantly defend things that don't deserve it.

 

Pals being better without mages =/= Mages are bad, especially with other stuff hit down. That is such backwards logic.

 

That... has nothing to do with anything. In fact ,this is circular logic on your part that doesn't help you. If they're getting more support, that means it ISN'T dead by T2. You can argue they'll be lower quality, but the situation favors the situation with fewer assumptions. And that situation is the one that more targets = more unfair.

 

DAD is an example of poor list decisions. Even without pushing DARK, it was still an unfair card that should not move up the list. Hastily making decisions, especially in a new era, is a bad idea.

Trick Clown can get it sure, then you float into another trick clown? You still need to get plush in the grave, which contrasts destroying it (as it would go into the extra)

 

That's really not true black, there's at most around 7 other cards I say should be off the list. Yata (we agreed on this one?), MoF (everyone agrees on this one), Goyo (see MoF), Juggler (we likely disagree), TIV (I'm not entirely sold), Witch (see meta), Metamorphosis (there's good arguments as to why it should stay) and maybe Monkey in the future...that's really it...

 

So let's just assume that they're getting more support. Ok. So Plush will get better? You would have more targets outside of Clown, Juggler, Mirror. You also have the delicate balance game that more targets= more chance of being able to draw them, thus making plush more likely to be dead. It's a balancing act. Sure it might be in Plush's favor, but inundating a deck full of mages seems poor logic to me

 

The substance is the January 1st OCG banlist. 3 Hits, that's IT. Shock, Juggler, Plush to 0 from there. NO hits to BA or Monarchs. Even Posh SHIV, Dracopals were performing better in the metagame relative to BA and Monarchs, care to explain that?

 

I'm damn'd if I do or don't here black. I've played both decks, but that's subjective anecdotal evidence. But if I don't bring in what I've played you call me out on being substance-less EVEN when the Jan 1st list is the perfect evidence for my case that's neither substance-less, subjective, or anecdotal. 

 

Again on DAD, it might have been an unfair card to move off, but for an entire format and most of the latter it was fine dude. There are more variable to consider outside of just the DAD unban. For example Ravine and Shrine to 1 killed Rulers as did Moral and Nebra to 1&2 respectively. You threw the game to Dolls and Heroes. The July list was awful and signed a death warrant for DAD.

[IQuitDolphin]

I'll just barge in here for a second with a tl;dr statement as it appears that trying to type an essay when the thread is this hyper is somewhat difficult.

 

- Plushfire is an infinite floater that relies on external forces to pop it, namely Ignister and Pendulum Sorcerer being the most efficient triggers. Both are limited in OCG, which makes it harder to trigger it for a solid plus.

- Plushfire will realistically never pop more than 2-3 times, and the advantage gleaned off of it will lead to Rafflesia and/or Castel/Dire/Trapeze for OTKs. Rafflesia has been proven to be easily sidestepped, while the more resilient usage is to OTK with Trapeze. This does conflict with going first to set up Ariadne, however.

 

---

 

This looks somewhat like the discussion for Lavalval Chain, only reversed. Plushfire's design is unfair, but the interactions currently aren't enough to deem it threatening.

[Blake]

Trick Clown can get it sure, then you float into another trick clown? You still need to get plush in the grave, which contrasts destroying it (as it would go into the extra)

 

That's really not true black, there's at most around 7 other cards I say should be off the list. Yata (we agreed on this one?), MoF (everyone agrees on this one), Goyo (see MoF), Juggler (we likely disagree), TIV (I'm not entirely sold), Witch (see meta), Metamorphosis (there's good arguments as to why it should stay) and maybe Monkey in the future...that's really it...

 

So let's just assume that they're getting more support. Ok. So Plush will get better? You would have more targets outside of Clown, Juggler, Mirror. You also have the delicate balance game that more targets= more chance of being able to draw them, thus making plush more likely to be dead. It's a balancing act. Sure it might be in Plush's favor, but inundating a deck full of mages seems poor logic to me

 

The substance is the January 1st OCG banlist. 3 Hits, that's IT. Shock, Juggler, Plush to 0 from there. NO hits to BA or Monarchs. Even Posh SHIV, Dracopals were performing better in the metagame relative to BA and Monarchs, care to explain that?

 

I'm damn'd if I do or don't here black. I've played both decks, but that's subjective anecdotal evidence. But if I don't bring in what I've played you call me out on being substance-less EVEN when the Jan 1st list is the perfect evidence for my case that's neither substance-less, subjective, or anecdotal. 

 

Again on DAD, it might have been an unfair card to move off, but for an entire format and most of the latter it was fine dude. There are more variable to consider outside of just the DAD unban. For example Ravine and Shrine to 1 killed Rulers as did Moral and Nebra to 1&2 respectively. You threw the game to Dolls and Heroes. The July list was awful and signed a death warrant for DAD.

what does that have to do with my point, and how does a free +1 not equate to a free +1

 

You've made cases in the past, and you continue to do so, be thgey on the list or cards people say belong on. IE Chain.

 

Again, Occam's Razor. There are fewer assumptions to more targets = better than trying to justify B-BUT TOO MANY TARGETS or B-BUT QUALITY, which require many more assumptions in order to validate.

 

That's not evidence. The fact that Pedra was better than Pepe proves NOTHING in regards to the quality of Performage. It seems to imply that Pedra is the better deck (which was in part due to Titanic, which pushed it to there nonetheless), and you are using points that are not related to prove your point.

 

The Jan 1 list isn't proof. At all. I've disproven it a few times, stop citing it.

 

DAD should not have come off. It's an example of a move that ended up impacting the game negatively because it should never have been moved off. "There are more variables to consider" is exactly the point of not pulling sheet off of the list when it has plenty of potential to funk the game up.

[Dragulas]

That ice cream represents konami's despair to push the pendulum mechanic, it went too far and should not come back so they know what they shouldnt do in the future

The lack of a hard OPT is a proof of that, and even with it, i d say it still deserves to be banned.

The card is unfair even if the means to abuse it arent

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

what does that have to do with my point, and how does a free +1 not equate to a free +1

 

You've made cases in the past, and you continue to do so, be thgey on the list or cards people say belong on. IE Chain.

 

Again, Occam's Razor. There are fewer assumptions to more targets = better than trying to justify B-BUT TOO MANY TARGETS or B-BUT QUALITY, which require many more assumptions in order to validate.

 

That's not evidence. The fact that Pedra was better than Pepe proves NOTHING in regards to the quality of Performage. It seems to imply that Pedra is the better deck (which was in part due to Titanic, which pushed it to there nonetheless), and you are using points that are not related to prove your point.

 

The Jan 1 list isn't proof. At all. I've disproven it a few times, stop citing it.

 

DAD should not have come off. It's an example of a move that ended up impacting the game negatively because it should never have been moved off. "There are more variables to consider" is exactly the point of not pulling sheet off of the list when it has plenty of potential to funk the game up.

You were talking about Plush being able to float into card that would float again. The only way to get Plush in the grave for Trick to use it again would be to XYZ with it, which would in turn be counter productive since you want to destroy it and have it float to the extra not have it in the grave. Unless you mean having Trick float into another (non-plush) card. Then we have no disagreement. I don't think a player being able to generate a +5 over the course of a duel is anything wrong. It happens with most decks.

 

Let set this record straight. Card without Erratas:

 

[spoiler=mainly to Black]

 

Magician of Faith - OCG has many cards that do this job better at 3

Goyo - A troubling high attack, but slow works in a highly contested phase

Yata - Slow, most decks need the normal summon, and most decks can work around losing their DP, that being said, should never go above 1

Juggler - A little to much utility in one card and certainly not one that should be at three

Witch - Slow, but with Narchs and Sagan's errata, it's unlikely to return as is

TIV - Water is already making a splash in OCG, I don't think giving them a raigeki to out painful boards is wise, but I can get behind it - Iffy

Meta - Stein and this aren't entirely comparable, and like DAD this might be one of those cards that with the right list change can backfire, but most fusion are being built with a need to be fusion summoned first clause these days - Iffy

Chain - not entirely sure with this anymore, it has very little chance of returning with the OCG ban of it. I don't think that milling one card is that wrong, but it does have stupid interactions in rank 4 decks that can abuse cards like Zeph and Clown. I would not be opposed to it returning to 1, but I also would be quite happy if it got an errata that you cannot SS after resolving the effect

Monkeyboard - pretty similar to Scout, didn't really need a hit after all the other hits Pals got, but it was a cautionary thing. 1 Card scales are dumb, but seeing this one was already made and the relevant deck was neutered, it can and likely should return in the near future

 

Now I assume you're going to call me out on things like Construct, Shock, Oppression and Judgment?

 

As a Shaddoll player I would love Construct back, but I have noted time and time again that it's interactions with the Envoys, Princess, and DMoC are dumb and than an El to 2 move would be better for the game and the deck

 

Shock, I said this card was never the problem, and it wasn't. OCG would have been about the same with or without it. It isn't healthy and I wouldn't cry either way on it.

 

Oppression, this was a card I said needed to return to address the SS cancer going on with the game. Vanity would be a better replacement to move up and I have conceded this point to you. Why this card? Because it was the only one like it at the time in relevance. But you do have me on this one

 

Judgment, started with me suggesting an errata, said proper hits to Fate and such would allow it's return. Reaper+DMoC made that not so

 

 

 

 

 

More targets = better - agreed

Better=broken deserves to be banned - disagree, you need more information to decide that

 

It really is though. Pepe had Harbinger too. Lets look at this shall we? We had X, (pepe), we took off Y, (jan list hits), we got Z.

 

Z proved to be >X, what does that tell about Y? THAT IT IS NEGATIVE. Mages were awful for the deck and they always had better cards to put in

 

If that's true, why the funk did Mages get hit harder than both the original Pal engine AND the replacement for Mages, the Draco Engine

 

You can't blame DAD's unban and then make a terrible list designed to re-break DAD and say, yup DAD was the problem. You can't experiment at all if you not only say future cards but future list are also that cards fault

 

Bottom line Experimenting with Plush isn't a terrible idea, and it's basically the only one they can do right away outside of obv ones like MoF and Goyo

[Kaiji]

I didn't really consider this an "issue" in pepe at least not without juggler

 

Even without juggler you have to run cards like Brick Clown, which is not to say that the card isn't powerful but it will come at some opportunity cost

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I didn't really consider this an "issue" in pepe at least not without juggler

Curious what you think of 1 or each then?

 

Construct and Chain are funked for the current period, so keeping the Mages banned to stop Gysta and Construct seems like a poor (yet widely circulated) reason on that front

[Kaiji]

That's an arbitrary set of hits that misses the point

 

I just think comparatively it's the weakest engine between it, Dracoslayer, and Performapal obviously just hitting one of them won't solve the "issue" of Pepe dominating

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

That's an arbitrary set of hits that misses the point

 

I just think comparatively it's the weakest engine between it, Dracoslayer, and Performapal obviously just hitting one of them won't solve the "issue" of Pepe dominating

I'm a little confused by what you mean by that first statement.

 

I as just citing a general sentiment that the banning of Plush (and Juggler) would allow for Chain (to stay when that was popular) and Construct to return. Be that true or good or relevant I don't know

 

So what exactly is your stance on the matter? Plush at what and Juggler at what?

[Kaiji]

Again an arbitrary set of hits that doesn't matter in the context of what Im saying

 

ie who cares

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Again an arbitrary set of hits that doesn't matter in the context of what Im saying

 

ie who cares

????

 

I'm not talking about any hits. I was reiterating a sentiment I have heard OCG side. I'm sorry it ended up in the same post as the one addressing you. YCM merges posts and I forgot to address it earlier

 

The point again is what do you think the correct hits are if not what Konami has done

 

Unless "who cares" is was the answer to that

[Toffee.]

Mages were honestly one of the most fun Decks I have ever seen. However, they were borderline cancerous due to being an engine that could literally be played with anyhting- Only natural that a splashable/highly useful/etc engine would be paired with other things that would showcase how prominent the cards were, in terms of combos/etc that just end up as a funking goldmine of pluses.

Go figure they would hit This and the RotA; Mages are just too good.

 

But what do I know....