Ultimate Falcon and BS that is the two card combo

[Forest Fire]

When Ultimate Falcon was first shown, some people instantly realized it would be another towers and didn't deserve to exist. Others lamented that it wasn't op because it wasn't as easy as towers to get out or because it wasn't a +1 play, it wasn't as bad as towers. there is literally a two card combo to get this on field. bullshit it isn't as easy as towers to get out. - actually, you know what, you're right, it isn't as easy as towers it's even easier because you need ABSOLUTELY NO SET UP to get it out, at least with towers, you either needed three qli's out or a way to get three out after searching. with this it's just play force strix and have a rank-up in hand - that's it.

 

Because Towers was a +1 play that required minimal setup while this requires some finagling* with RUMs?

 

*Yes, I am aware that this not technically the proper use of the word. It's just a fun word to say.

It's unlikely to see play.

 

Last Strix helps, but same issue. Unless Skip Force is good enough to warrant generically running (i.e. Start with tutu but go into anything) instead of a double raid force (go from anything to ruri), even that fails. And the Rank 8 just isn't worth making on its own.

and guess what kids? last strix is completely searchable - by not 1, but 3 THREE cards in the archetype. yeah, you can't search skip force, but are you really telling me that with all the searching you can do and the fact that this thing is your archetypes towers, that 1) you're not going to play it and/or 2) you really can't afford to play more than one copy of skip force. yeah right. and who cares if the r8 isn't good the play normally? step 1) last strix into the r8, step 2) slap skip force down. and now you have towers.

...

 

But it is actually extremely difficult to summon, maybe not the process but the set-up and practicality. Blaze into Double Death and Last Strix into Astral Force are both ways it can be done but they both have glaring flaws. DDF is bad and is a minus no matter how you make it. Last is bad, Astral is not good and neither are run.

drawing into two random cards or drawing into one (skip) and searching out the other. SO MUCH SET UP how can you even bare it. SO MUCH DIFFICULTY

 

tldr Ultimate Falcon is 1) easier to get out then towers 2)requires absolutely no set up 3) is bird towers

call me salty, but ban it now plz

[Blake]

itt report REALLY OLD NEWS and quote posts from before any impact was observed!

 

Like holy hell, this is just absurd. You didn't even post the cards, so you're clearly not going for a discussion, so why are you posting this in TCG instead of, say, Misc?

 

The RUM not being searchable means it's a power play, not a consistent one... In a format where the stupidly consistent and fast deck known as Pepe or Pedra was severely hampered. Of course it's better now than it was, though I doubted its initial OCG showing due to the existence of Pepe/Pedra.

 

Also, you say 2 cards, but one of which is a card that's entirely dead outside of this one play. I'm not saying you're wrong about it being strong, but you didn't remove my points about the flaws of the RUM.

 

This is actually one of the worst posts I've seen in a while, tbh, especially with how much you try to take things out of context in order to make yourself seem... smarter? Saltier? IDK, it isn't even a coherent abuse tactic, so not sure what you're going for. Nevermind that I never said you could only run 1 Skip Force, or that the post was made, as is clear by context, before the IRL reveal of Skip Force.

[ENMaker]

When I said that Skip Force didn't exist and that's a fairly essential part of why it's so easily splashable, though I admittedly was being a bit dogged in my position.

 

But Force can't search Last, you can only search it with Mimicry or Nest. That's significant in itself, it's not as easy search as you make out. Yes you can splash it down turn 1 if you topdeck both cards but the RUMs not being searchable, and the monster not being searchable by your primary searcher, still leaves it with a great factor of luck.

[Blake]

When I said that Skip Force didn't exist and that's a fairly essential part of why it's so easily splashable, though I admittedly was being a bit dogged in my position.

 

But Force can't search Last, you can only search it with Mimicry or Nest. That's significant in itself, it's not as easy search as you make out. Yes you can splash it down turn 1 if you topdeck both cards but the RUMs not being searchable, and the monster not being searchable by your primary searcher, still leaves it with a great factor of luck.

Raidraptor - Call

 

that's how you find last strix, means that Tribute + Skip makes it.

[ENMaker]

Raidraptor - Callthat's how you find last strix, means that Tribute + Skip makes it.

What? I really don't get what you're saying. Tribute mill Mimicry search Last yes, but why Call?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

That all being said, the logical thing to do is unban towers

[Blake]

What? I really don't get what you're saying. Tribute mill Mimicry search Last yes, but why Call?

Forgot Call said same name, tbh. People brought it up before, and I just forgot what it actually did.

 

Vanishing + tribute + Skip does work Via call, though.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

You can't "search" waving eyes easily either, and scout is limited now, so that begs the question, why was towers banned? Specially now that Crab King is legal everywhere and UTL in America?

 

It's just another of TCG's signature dumbass moves.

 

I'd argue ultimate Ruri > Towers in its ease to summon currently in TCG, but come SHIV, cherry Ghost will make it easy to kill too

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Towers had the advantage of being in a relatively good deck at the time, and being able to draw 3 cards off the summon was very much the only reason it saw play.

[Spinny]

You can't "search" waving eyes easily either, and scout is limited now, so that begs the question, why was towers banned? Specially now that Crab King is legal everywhere and UTL in America?

 

It's just another of TCG's signature dumbass moves.

 

I'd argue ultimate Ruri > Towers in its ease to summon currently in TCG, but come SHIV, cherry Ghost will make it easy to kill too

Banning towers was just to make them dead dead. Like, the shaddoll and nekroz hits werent that justified at the time either.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Banning towers was just to make them dead dead. Like, the shaddoll and nekroz hits werent that justified at the time either.

Let's be honest, and I've been a Shaddoll die hard for almost two years now, construct had to go. Esp with DMOC and CED coming out. Shaddoll hits were fair and synched up with the OCG format.

 

Nekroz and Qli's I'll agree on

[Βyakuya]

Utopia Lightning.

 

gg no re.

 

/thread

[VCR_CAT]

The funny part is thinking that it needs to be banned. Ultimate Falcon is second worst on the Towers Monster Spectrum (TMS for short); scraping above Towers itself only due to better stats and protection. The thing is, Ultimate Ruri lacks any kind of disruption removal and, more so than the other Towers Monsters, relies on the other cards you're able to get out. One-off stat nerf is a pretty lame defense mechanism, and pretty much the only decks that this really causes problems for are the ones that people don't build expecting to need large-ish beatsticks to get rid of. Frick, even Monarchs have a relatively simple time removing this from the field. 

 

If anything, Ultimate Ruri is a card I would refer to as "The Bane of Casuals"; since any proper deck worth its mettle shouldn't have too much of a problem with this (save Kozmos; but even those have creative ways of outing something like this).

 

The spectrum still stands:

 

Magnus > Dora > Ruri / Towers

 

On the statistic on "How UTLable is this card?" The answer remains "Laughably UTLable". This card won't get banned because in proper competitive play, it's just not a problem. If it is a problem for you, then I would suggest going over your deck and asking yourself "Why can't this deck beat face?"

[Spinny]

Let's be honest, and I've been a Shaddoll die hard for almost two years now, construct had to go. Esp with DMOC and CED coming out. Shaddoll hits were fair and synched up with the OCG format.

 

Nekroz and Qli's I'll agree on

/at the time

[Blake]

You can't "search" waving eyes easily either, and scout is limited now, so that begs the question, why was towers banned? Specially now that Crab King is legal everywhere and UTL in America?

 

It's just another of TCG's signature dumbass moves.

 

I'd argue ultimate Ruri > Towers in its ease to summon currently in TCG, but come SHIV, cherry Ghost will make it easy to kill too

The Wavering Eyes argument is such a funking copout.

 

Skip Force isn't a good card. It only has a very linaer method of usage, and most of the Ruri Xyz suck.

 

Wavering Eyes is an insanely strong "Generic" card. It has implications outside of a singular power play.

 

Regardless of the quality of the hit/quality of these two, you cannot compare a card of Wavering Eyes' quality to one of Skip Force's.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Towers only has 2 more practical outs than this, right? Star Eater and Crab King? I mean I understand that these were the two most common ways to deal with towers but they weren't the only options at all. This is far from unkillable, and once UTL comes out it is just bad.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

/at the time

DMoC got his errata 2 days after the banlist? I think TCG is short sighted, but not that's short sighted

[Βyakuya]

Towers only has 2 more practical outs than this, right? Star Eater and Crab King? I mean I understand that these were the two most common ways to deal with towers but they weren't the only options at all. This is far from unkillable, and once UTL comes out it is just bad.

 

It already has, and it's very effective being an anti-"Towers", especially against this card.

 

I'm not going to repeat what some people are already arguing, but Raidraptors is fine enough with its unsearchable RUM and its seemingly powerful boss monster. The argument that it's all broken and that it's a low-card combo with low investment is not worth the talk.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

The Wavering Eyes argument is such a funking copout.Skip Force isn't a good card. It only has a very linaer method of usage, and most of the Ruri Xyz suck.Wavering Eyes is an insanely strong "Generic" card. It has implications outside of a singular power play.Regardless of the quality of the hit/quality of these two, you cannot compare a card of Wavering Eyes' quality to one of Skip Force's.

Well Performages were still a deck, and that meant Juggler at three. So sure, waving is a great generic card, but you had a good portion of the metagame using it also and also running outs to it.

 

Skip Force isn't nessesarily a worse card black, it presents multiple oppertinities not called Ultimate falcon that can be used to your benefit.

 

They're two completely different cards with different uses. I was commenting on the statistics of both Towers and Ruri being "2 card combos"

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

DMoC got his errata 2 days after the banlist? I think TCG is short sighted, but not that's short sighted

Saying construct had to go then for two cards that still aren't around now is just silly.

 

That said, having a banlist perform a hard reset on the metagame isn't necessarily a bad thing, the issue was in how it was repopulated, if anything.

[ENMaker]

When ye're saying UtL I feel the fact that Skip Force revives this for free is being forgotten.

[Βyakuya]

When ye're saying UtL I feel the fact that Skip Force revives this for free is being forgotten.

 

You could always do that overlay into 7 Sins. That can surely get over UtL.

 

*shot*

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

It already has

*checks*

 

 

 

 

 

Why does this thread exist?

[Kaiji]

*checks*

 

 

 

 

 

Why does this thread exist?

[heraldry_lord]

When I said that Skip Force didn't exist and that's a fairly essential part of why it's so easily splashable, though I admittedly was being a bit dogged in my position.

 

At the time, Skip Force was an anime card, and considering the trend, it was extremely unlikely that Konami wouldn't print it.

 

So yes, you were pretty stubborn in admitting that there might have been something to Last Strix becoming significant.

 

That being said, there was no telling what nerfs or buffs, if any, Konami would have given RUM SF, so it was speculation mostly.