Pokemon Sun & Moon

[Flame Dragon]

I'm going to continue to beat the dead horse that is one of Lycanroc's forms not being obtainable in one of the versions, but in a slightly different way. I'm sure we've touched on this before, but with Lycanroc it reminds that that the issue it has also extends to some of the Alolan Pokemon. Raichu, Marowak, and Executor are all obtained from evolving a normal version of their base form. So this begs the question, are the normal versions of those Pokemon just not obtainable in Sun/Moon? I believe strongly that you should be able to obtain every Pokemon and have it be your own (have you be the OT) so I can't believe that they wouldn't give us some way to get the normal versions of those Pokemon. Not to mention, for the other Alolan Pokemon their base form is different so they will never have this issue. My standard Vulpix (presumably) can never evolve into Alolan Ninetales. I'm going to assume that if I breed a standard Vulpix it will give me a standard Vulpix. I know I'm bringing this up a lot, but for all intent and purposes the different forms are unique Pokemon and never being able to have that Pokemon be registered as "yours" seems like something they shouldn't do and honestly, I don't think they would.

 

 

With all that said, I do find it interesting that it says this for Passimian "Passimian is a Pokémon that only appears in Pokémon Sun. If you’re playing Pokémon Moon, you can obtain it by trading with someone playing Pokémon Sun." and Lycanroc's version exclusiveness isn't called out like that.

[Shradow]

With all that said, I do find it interesting that it says this for Passimian "Passimian is a Pokémon that only appears in Pokémon Sun. If you’re playing Pokémon Moon, you can obtain it by trading with someone playing Pokémon Sun." and Lycanroc's version exclusiveness isn't called out like that.

 

Well, version exclusives have worked that way since the series started, it's not like they have to put the description on every single applicable Pokemon by this point.

[evilfusion]

I personally operate on the assumption that version-exclusive evolutions is not going to be a thing.

 

Having a Pokemon evolve based purely on what version you're playing is exceedingly poor game and world design. No, there will almost certainly be a justifying factor or variable that causes a Pokemon into one thing over the other, and I'm fairly confident it won't be "the game you're playing", because that sort of thing simply cannot cross over to future games, and makes no sense in terms of the overall world.

 

The closest thing we've gotten to that previously is "location based evolution" (Magnezone/Probopass, Leafeon/Glaceon) where the MEANS of evolution is not available in certain games, but there's been a justifying factor, such as the presence of the Moss/Ice Rock, or an electromagnetic charge in the area. But even those, they've simply added the features to current games, so no evolution or Pokemon has ever been 100% locked to a certain game.

 

Yes, Pokemon supports the "buy 2 games to get everything" principle, but I simply cannot imagine them legitimately making an evolution unobtainable unless you're playing a certain game, and that ONLY the game itself factors into it. They'll either have an item, or a world feature (such as the Deoxys meteorites) that will make the forme obtainable.

 

Plus, there's got to be a reason why they have the Sun/Moon clock gimmick.

 

Especially since they did so much in Gen VI to make breeding for competitive purposes easier. Only letting you breed for something in a specific game would be a step backwards.

[Blake]

It's confirmed they only evolve in their specific games. No precedent for it happening earlier is not an argument. Arguing against the game design of a series full of exclusives is not an argument. It is no different than a regular exclusive, except they only had to make 1 base form.

 

I think what people aren't getting is that the evolutions very much do seem to be based on WHERE they evolve.

 

"When Rockruff is bathed in profuse amounts of solar energy, it evolves into its Midday Form. In the world of Pokémon Sun, Solgaleo’s influence causes Rockruff to evolve into this form."

"When Rockruff is bathed in an abundance of lunar energy, it evolves into its Midnight Form. In the world of Pokémon Moon, Lunala’s influence causes Rockruff to evolve into this form."

 

This implies that it has nothing to do with breeding. At all. The alolans do, at least those with a base form native to Alola (Sandshrew, Vulpix, Rattata, Meowth), but the jury is still out on Pikachu, Cubone, etc.

 

As an aside, this also very much proves it's version based... OR that it can maybe be subverted by moving the other legend into the game. This is speculation, but mentioning it like that means it is, in fact, entirely possible.

 

Also, no, you do NOT have to justify the day/night gimmick beyond things Pokemon already has.

1. Time-based encounters.
2. Time-based evolutions.

Why do they have to validate it beyond that? Those alone are enough to sell Moon to a lot of people, because it IS different from the usual. You can more consistently hit things that only appear/evolve at night, such as Ghosts or Umbreon, in theory.

 

The forward moving argument doesn't work, either. We have gimmicks like Malamar or Sylveon, and I doubt those are always going to be the same, especially not Malamar. Series tend to adapt as they move forward, as things like the Physical/Special split demonstrate, moving forward.

 

Feel free to be upset about it, but don't get incensed and insist that it cannot be true, when they have pretty much spelled out that it IS true now. There's a line between dissatisfaction and denial.

[.Rai]

Why is breeding being brought up? I might be missing something.

 

I don't really anything wrong with version-exclusive evolutions myself, like, at all. It's pretty much identical to version exclusive Pokémon.

[Blake]

Why is breeding being brought up? I might be missing something.

 

I don't really anything wrong with version-exclusive evolutions myself, like, at all. It's pretty much identical to version exclusive Pokémon.

Because of what we know of the Alolan Pokemon, namely those with an alolan base form, people assume Rockruff has to be born in a certain version to evolve a certain way. When... nothing of the sort is even remotely implied.

 

I don't see the issue, either. You trade it from one to the other, just the same. I guess it makes some trouble for competitive players, but, as I said, they would most likely make a way to circumvent it, considering it's based on exposure to the cover legends.

[evilfusion]

Because of what we know of the Alolan Pokemon, namely those with an alolan base form, people assume Rockruff has to be born in a certain version to evolve a certain way. When... nothing of the sort is even remotely implied.

 

I don't see the issue, either. You trade it from one to the other, just the same. I guess it makes some trouble for competitive players, but, as I said, they would most likely make a way to circumvent it, considering it's based on exposure to the cover legends.

 

I don't have an issue if that's what they're doing. I plan to have both games, and if I was for some reason compelled to use one forme over the other and it's restricted to version, I'd simply trade my bred Rockruff to the other version, evolve it, and trade it back. I'd still be the OT, if that bothers me (and it wouldn't).

 

I'm simply saying that I find it unlikely they'd restrict an evolution path 100% by version, because it doesn't factor into future games very well. It's not impossible, but I find it unlikely.

 

Ha...I forgot all about Malamar's derpy way of evolving. I imagine that it'll eventually follow Milotic in having an alternate way of evolving than the original, if it ever goes to a console or game that no longer can replicate the original method of turning your DS upside down (One fan game I've seen has you spam B when Inkay attempts to evolve - if you don't, it'll auto-cancel the evolution).

 

Sylveon probably wouldn't be an issue, either, if they ever drop Amie (or expansions of Amie. I know Sun/Moon still uses it, just saying). They might just make it a Happiness evolution while it has a Fairy move (with Sylveon taking priority over Umbreon/Espeon). But I actually like Sylveon's method. I think it's cute.

 

Aww, Eevee's Z move all but confirms no new Eeveelution.

[Flame Dragon]

Why is breeding being brought up? I might be missing something.

 

I don't really anything wrong with version-exclusive evolutions myself, like, at all. It's pretty much identical to version exclusive Pokémon.

As I said in my status the breeding issue is that unless you have a friend willing to jump through a buch of hoops or have both versions you can't control for Nature/IVs/Ability/Egg Moves. So if the only way to get Midday Lycanroc is in Sun, but you own Moon you can't control for those unless you have a friend willing to do it for you. Not to mention crazy people like me who care about nicknames, Pokeballs, and OT also have issues.

 

That being said, I agree with Black that we can't just assume they won't have a work around for it and them specifically mentioning the cover legends playing a roll seems to be that. Though I am curious what they'll do for people that want a normal Raichu in Sun/Moon.

 

I don't have an issue if that's what they're doing. I plan to have both games, and if I was for some reason compelled to use one forme over the other and it's restricted to version, I'd simply trade my bred Rockruff to the other version, evolve it, and trade it back. I'd still be the OT, if that bothers me (and it wouldn't).

 

Aww, Eevee's Z move all but confirms no new Eeveelution.

Actually, if I just think of this as a trade evolution where it just needs to level in another games that does make it easier to swallow. Pretty sure someone I know will get Sun.

 

We've actually known that for a while. Back when they were showing off the Pokedex at E3 (I think) we saw them catch and Eevee and it only had 8 spaces for the evolutions.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

The issue with version exclusive evolutions compared to version specific Pokemon can be explained fairly simply.

 

I own omega ruby. I do not own alpha sapphire. The first team I put together post-game included a Tyranitar. All I had to do was get a larvitar from GTS, and with a bit of patience I was able to breed that into what I needed.

 

If, for a team, I needed a Lycanroc from the other version, I am honestly kinda boned. I would need to find one that is exactly what I need, rather than being able to make due after acquiring one of them. That said, this is quite obviously an intentional design choice, to further push getting both versions, but it is really quite frustrating.

 

Obviously it is still possible with a bit of cooperation, but trade evolutions were a hassle already and this just extends that process. On the bright side this can be done with 1 DS, utilizing pokebank

[Blake]

The issue with version exclusive evolutions compared to version specific Pokemon can be explained fairly simply.

 

I own omega ruby. I do not own alpha sapphire. The first team I put together post-game included a Tyranitar. All I had to do was get a larvitar from GTS, and with a bit of patience I was able to breed that into what I needed.

 

If, for a team, I needed a Lycanroc from the other version, I am honestly kinda boned. I would need to find one that is exactly what I need, rather than being able to make due after acquiring one of them. That said, this is quite obviously an intentional design choice, to further push getting both versions, but it is really quite frustrating.

As said, entire thing is downplayed by saying "Trade Evolution", which it essentially is. It's bothersome, but it's nothing new and we've grown to swallow it, so shrug.

 

However, I will say this: If Rockruff is, in fact, a happiness evo, then it is most definitely a terrible design choice. If it's level up or stone... not so much.

[Flame Dragon]

However, I will say this: If Rockruff is, in fact, a happiness evo, then it is most definitely a terrible design choice. If it's level up or stone... not so much.

That would be a total nightmare. Like, I have no reason to assume it will be since most happiness evolutions are baby Pokemon, but that doesn't eliminate the chance it could happen.

 

 

Anyway, part of the reason I've been so fixed on Lycanroc is because I REALLY want to use it for me team. Since we have a good number of Pokemon at this point I think I'll post the batch I'm considering.

 

Rowlet (based on leaked designs)

Lycanroc

Vikavolt

Mudsdale

Mimikyu

Wishiwashi

Turtonator

Jangmo-o (depending on final form)

 

I'll also need a fighting type, but I'm not super sold on either of the ones we have right now.

 

That is at least 9 Pokemon so I'm going to need to drop some. Will make that call once we know more about the actual break down of the Pokemon and what the locked in slots will cause me to need to round out my team.

[Shradow]

Even if you don't personally know someone who owns the opposite version from you, the internet exists. Like, there are subreddits specifically for these sort of things.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Midday Lycanroc has sand rush. This means that, in sand, its accelrock will almost certainly be able to outspeed Talonflame's priority brave bird (and by extension roost). That's big.

 

This is less relevant for sand teams (because they really give no shits about Talonflame) but a core of Lycanroc and Hippowdon doesn't sound unreasonable at all.

[Agro]

tl;dr on the version exclusivity thing: ppl either don't want 2 versions of the game, or don't want friends. :'^)

 

Also I can't believe they made 2 Normal/Psychic types before one Normal/Ghost type.

 

I'm gonna go on record as betting that Dayruff will be competitively better than Nightruff.

[Jord200]

tl;dr on the version exclusivity thing: ppl either don't want 2 versions of the game, or don't want friends. :'^)

 

Also I can't believe they made 2 Normal/Psychic types before one Normal/Ghost type.

 

I'm gonna go on record as betting that Dayruff will be competitively better than Nightruff.

 

 

Wonder Trade and GTS ( ok, maybe not GTS given people ask for Volcanion for Bidoof or stuff like that half the time ) are a thing.

[Flame Dragon]

tl;dr on the version exclusivity thing: ppl either don't want 2 versions of the game, or don't want friends. :'^)

 

Also I can't believe they made 2 Normal/Psychic types before one Normal/Ghost type.

 

I'm gonna go on record as betting that Dayruff will be competitively better than Nightruff.

I want friends. But who knows how many will have Sun.

 

Ghost/Normal is WAY better than Psychic/Normal. You only have 1 weakness vs. 2, 3 immunities vs. 1, and 2 resits vs. 1. Not to mention the STAB combo is only resisted by Rock/Dark and Steel/Dark which both get nuked by Fail Blast.

 

I'm curious what Nightruff's stat spread will need to be to be viable. Based on its description it seems to like taking hits so it has to have some durability, but Rock is a terrible defensive type. I'm guessing/hoping high HP, ATK, and DEF, low SPE and SPA, with SPD hopefully being high.

[.Rai]

Although, I'd say that Normal/Psychic is a better defensive typing than pure Psychic. An immunity to Shadow Ball is insane for a Psychic-type wall, and losing the Fighting resistance doesn't really matter since most of the relevant Pokémon with Fighting STAB are running Knock Off or Crunch.

[Snatch Steal]

I want friends. But who knows how many will have Sun.Ghost/Normal is WAY better than Psychic/Normal. You only have 1 weakness vs. 2, 3 immunities vs. 1, and 2 resits vs. 1. Not to mention the STAB combo is only resisted by Rock/Dark and Steel/Dark which both get nuked by Fail Blast.I'm curious what Nightruff's stat spread will need to be to be viable. Based on its description it seems to like taking hits so it has to have some durability, but Rock is a terrible defensive type. I'm guessing/hoping high HP, ATK, and DEF, low SPE and SPA, with SPD hopefully being high.

Now would be the perfect time to give Nightruff Fur Coat.

[Flame Dragon]

Now would be the perfect time to give Nightruff Fur Coat.

I'm hopeful it will get that as its HA. Honestly, a lot of the Pokemon with underwhelming abilities right now can still end up with insane hidden ones so we have a lot left to see for them.

[Thomas★Zero]

I'm hopeful it will get that as its HA. Honestly, a lot of the Pokemon with underwhelming abilities right now can still end up with insane hidden ones so we have a lot left to see for them.

To be honest I can see Nightruff getting Tough Claws for a HA based on it meant to be quite a offensive pokemon.

[Flame Dragon]

To be honest I can see Nightruff getting Tough Claws for a HA based on it meant to be quite a offensive pokemon.

I'm not sure if its going to be a purely offensive Pokemon though. Based on the description we got it seems to like getting hit and using it to fight back (its why it learns counter). I could see a physical version of berserk.

[Pchi]

Sharing a few thoughts:

 

My guess is that the normal variants of mon with Alolan Formes will only be obtainable by transferring from another game featuring them or by breeding a normal female or a male with a Ditto. Only the wild ones caught in Sun/Moon will be in their respective Alolan Formes. Not exactly an original theory, but I felt the need to remind people of that possibility in order to calm them down.

Passimian, despite beinf referred to as a monkey by a large portion of the fandom currently, seems to be, in reality, based on a lemur, judging by its coloration and fluffy tail. Its name can also be derived from Prosimian, a former taxonomic group which the lemurs belong to.

As for its new, exclusive ability, I'm afraid it probably won't be able to receive broken/species-exclusive abilities such as Wonder Guard or Parental Bond from their fallen allies. Because Game Freak likes to be a little sheet :P BTW, has anyone noticed a growing trend of giving exclusive moves/abilities to the new generation mon? Practically all species introduced in Gen VI had one, at least until ORAS came out.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Yes! Sun monkey is best monkey. The ability seems super cool.
Though I might actually prefer Nightruff (still calling it that)
Also sandcastle gets Earth Power that's good to know.
Wow lot of clothing options.
THE PIKA DANCE IS THE CUTEST THING
Eevee's attack is so over the top it's beautiful.
 

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

To be honest, I didn't see the version exclusive thing for Passimian and Oranguru when I initially watched the trailers, but yeah. Already preordered Sun, so I end up with the former in-game (though trading still exists). 

 

Come to think of it, I have FCs from a couple of you from Gen 6.

[.Rai]

THE PIKA DANCE IS THE CUTEST THING

random trivia, the pikachu z move is literally just a few random dance moves from this vid put together

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7thM6thDbg