Pokemon Sun & Moon

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

[spoiler=Necrozma]I thought something was strange about Necrozma when we found out it didn't have Beast Boost as it's ability like the other Ultra Beasts.

 

[~British Soul~]

I also thought the mysterious black pokemon was an UB when I first saw it, but it looks pretty cool, and I'm also interested in seeing what it has to do with the box legends.

The Kaguya UB looks pretty cool, and the origami one is neat as well.

 

Also the starter having their own exclusive Z-Moves is interesting;

Shadow/Sinister Arrow Strike (Decidueye)

Hyper Dark Crusher (Incineroar)

Primarina's isn't known atm.

[Darj]

I just recently took a look at most of the new Pokemon and their stats, and got a few thoughts regarding them:

 

- So it's Pikipek who becomes into a toucan; when it was mentioned here in the thread I assumed it was a different Pokemon. Anyway, I find disappointing how not only it is too slow when I was hoping for the next Staraptor, also it doesn't even get a Flying-Type consecutive-attack move to take advantage of its Skill Link Ability + STAB bonus. At least it learns Fury Attack, which gets STAB, but it doesn't look good regardless.

- Likewise, I expected Vikavolt to be fast with such appearance, but it is not. The Sp. ATK is outstanding, but it still seems too frail to stand out. It's only hope is a priority Special attack move,but it doesn't look like it can learn any. Another option is in Doubles with an Speed Swap ally?

- Ribombee, one of the Pokemon I would pick if I were to make an Alola Pokemon team, looks alright: High speed and decent Sp.Atk, access to some good STAB moves like Pollen Puff, a new Bug-type attack with 90 base power, also Hurricane and Quiver Dance; plus it can have Shield Dust or Sweet Veil (cannot Sleep) as protective abilities. I do wish it had a bit more base stats, either distributed on its HP/Def/Sp/Def, or more Sp.Atk to go past 100, but oh well.

...Actually, I did a bit more of research on it, and it looks better than I thought. It has access to Roost, U-Turn, and Baton Pass Aromatherapy for the support, even Stun Spore for the disruption, all backed up by that sweet base Speed.

- Comfey looks promising too, IMO: High Speed and Sp.Def, and decent Sp.Atk and Def, plus with its ability that gives priority to healing moves I suspect it can be as resilient as Sableye. However, it is no Prankster so it shouldn't be as effective at spreading status or disrupting the opponent, but it got that Speed to back it up.

- Toxapex is another Pokemon that I found with potential: High defenses, Regenerator, Recover, immunity to Toxic from its type, and last time I checked Water-Type was still a decent defensive type. It's lacking on base HP bit its defenses should make up for it, plus a low HP should make it easier to set up Substitutes, as it will be able to fill a 1/3 of its HP more easily with a Wish. Plus that new move Liquidation looks cute, as it lets it to potentially drop the opponent's Def while it walls; Baneful Bunker, a Protect that poisons a Pokemon making contact, looks interesting, too. Also, it seems to be based on an starfish, and it looks really cool IMO; I'm surprised they never showcased this Pokemon the sneak peek videos.

- Not related to combat use but, it caught my attention how the evolution of Salandit is only female, and only the female ones can evolve, naturally. I'm curious on if this trait is based on a real lizard.

 

All in all, I spotted some new Pokemon with potential when I went through the stats & moves video, but I think most of them aren't outstanding. Although, to be fair, I still have to review their movepools, plus the new moves & abilities.

 

 

EDIT:

I just found Marshadow and damn, that thing is a freaking monster; don't be deceived by its cute appearance. Ghost/Fighting, 125 ATK & Speed, Technician STAB Shadow Sneak, and its signature move is evil.

[~British Soul~]

I missed the Ship Girl thing (whoops), so I can only imagine what she did when I wasn't there to see her off when I promised to do so. Probs chucked the Comet Shard into the ocean in frustration. That's fine, once I send the sheet over to the game when I get it, I'll just pretend the demo character went to kill himself after breaking a promise to the girl.

[The Warden]

Yeah, I had a busy day yesterday, so I totes forgot myself. Kinda vexing really, but I suppose if the economy in Alola is like Kalos, money won't be much of an issue.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

[spoiler=Bottle Cap gain]

You can get Bottle Caps from the Festival

 

 

[Astro Dude]

I missed the Ship Girl thing (whoops), so I can only imagine what she did when I wasn't there to see her off when I promised to do so. Probs chucked the Comet Shard into the ocean in frustration. That's fine, once I send the sheet over to the game when I get it, I'll just pretend the demo character went to kill himself after breaking a promise to the girl.

Too bad for you, you should have set your clock back an hour last week, like I did.

 

On a more seious note, I think they got rid of HM's because Pokemon riding takes it's place. For Strength: Tauros. For Surf: Sharpedo and Lapras. For Fly: Charizard. Not sure about the others like Cut, Waterfall, Dive, Defog and Rock Smash.

 

Also, if the Gen 4 games get remade, will they still use HM's with the applied physics of Gen 7?

[Shradow]

So that ship girl was, like, a ghost or something? She said she'd finally get to see her parents, then she literally vanished.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Yeah, I noticed she just went through the gate and it didn't even open. But at least I did all of the mini-events, so once Sun/Moon comes around, I'll have a lot to send over.

 

As much as I'm excited for the game, what isn't sitting well (and a lot of you have the same feelings) is the fact that outside of a choice few, all of the Pokes in this generation are slow as hell (least from the datamining); well, at least the stuff that we'd think should've been faster.

 

I suppose we could check the stats ourselves and see if they are right or if Gamefreak had anticipated the mining and stats are actually a little better; likely going to be former.

[~British Soul~]

Too bad for you, you should have set your clock back an hour last week, like I did.

I'd rather not funk up time based events, so I leave my 3DS clock as-is.

[Βyakuya]

I just recently took a look at most of the new Pokemon and their stats, and got a few thoughts regarding them:

 

- So it's Pikipek who becomes into a toucan; when it was mentioned here in the thread I assumed it was a different Pokemon. Anyway, I find disappointing how not only it is too slow when I was hoping for the next Staraptor, also it doesn't even get a Flying-Type consecutive-attack move to take advantage of its Skill Link Ability + STAB bonus. At least it learns Fury Attack, which gets STAB, but it doesn't look good regardless.

- Likewise, I expected Vikavolt to be fast with such appearance, but it is not. The Sp. ATK is outstanding, but it still seems too frail to stand out. It's only hope is a priority Special attack move,but it doesn't look like it can learn any. Another option is in Doubles with an Speed Swap ally?

- Ribombee, one of the Pokemon I would pick if I were to make an Alola Pokemon team, looks alright: High speed and decent Sp.Atk, access to some good STAB moves like Pollen Puff, a new Bug-type attack with 90 base power, also Hurricane and Quiver Dance; plus it can have Shield Dust or Sweet Veil (cannot Sleep) as protective abilities. I do wish it had a bit more base stats, either distributed on its HP/Def/Sp/Def, or more Sp.Atk to go past 100, but oh well.

...Actually, I did a bit more of research on it, and it looks better than I thought. It has access to Roost, U-Turn, and Baton Pass Aromatherapy for the support, even Stun Spore for the disruption, all backed up by that sweet base Speed.

- Comfey looks promising too, IMO: High Speed and Sp.Def, and decent Sp.Atk and Def, plus with its ability that gives priority to healing moves I suspect it can be as resilient as Sableye. However, it is no Prankster so it shouldn't be as effective at spreading status or disrupting the opponent, but it got that Speed to back it up.

- Toxapex is another Pokemon that I found with potential: High defenses, Regenerator, Recover, immunity to Toxic from its type, and last time I checked Water-Type was still a decent defensive type. It's lacking on base HP bit its defenses should make up for it, plus a low HP should make it easier to set up Substitutes, as it will be able to fill a 1/3 of its HP more easily with a Wish. Plus that new move Liquidation looks cute, as it lets it to potentially drop the opponent's Def while it walls; Baneful Bunker, a Protect that poisons a Pokemon making contact, looks interesting, too. Also, it seems to be based on an starfish, and it looks really cool IMO; I'm surprised they never showcased this Pokemon the sneak peek videos.

- Not related to combat use but, it caught my attention how the evolution of Salandit is only female, and only the female ones can evolve, naturally. I'm curious on if this trait is based on a real lizard.

 

All in all, I spotted some new Pokemon with potential when I went through the stats & moves video, but I think most of them aren't outstanding. Although, to be fair, I still have to review their movepools, plus the new moves & abilities.

 

 

EDIT:

I just found Marshadow and damn, that thing is a freaking monster; don't be deceived by its cute appearance. Ghost/Fighting, 125 ATK & Speed, Technician STAB Shadow Sneak, and its signature move is evil.

 

Decided to post here for once; not sure why I honestly haven't been. Here's some of my thoughts too.

 

Have you checked out Golisopod? Slow af, but makes up for it with its super high Attack and Defense, as well as access to Priority moves like Aqua Jet for STAB. Ability makes it very good as a tactic combining with its signature move. Give a strong blow on the first attack Golisopod comes out, then if Golisopod survives around half, you get a risk-free switch. Combined with Life Orb it might potentially be a monstrous hit-and-run kind of Pokemon, and not to mention Leech Life i Base 80 is also a thing. Pairing with Wish works out very well so something like Togekiss or Jirachi would be good supporters cause of Thunder Wave & Serene Grace. 

 

Mimikyu is also pretty lethal as well. Aside from being the other unique Physical Ghost-type, Disguise with Focus Sash ensures not dying in 2 turns, so it can x4 Attack boost with Swords Dance and then priority Sucker Punch. If you bait a switch, stacking a Substitute can be annoying af. It's got decent Sp. Def to counter against opposing Ghosts and Poison, has access to crippling status moves like Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave, as well as other powerful STAB moves like Play Rough.

 

Minior is incredibly solid; It learns Shell Smash and Cosmic Power, so under the right condtions, this thing can be a powerhouse. Only thing holding it back is its subpar speed, but it can yield a good amount of powerful moves like Acrobatics so with a Sitrus Berry use + Shields Down can be devastating. Rock Slide is a good STAB in Multiples and Stealth Rock is a good setup.

 

Bruxish is a decent anti-Priority tech so it has somewhat of a niche to prevent your other teammates from being weak to certain Priority. Swap it in against something like Aqua Jet Azuramill or Bullet Punch Scizor, then under a bait & switch setup a Reflect/Light Screen. It's got a limited movepool but it has very well-rounded stats that will make these moves effective.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

@~BS~: Only reason I reset the clock nowadays is pretty much Gen 5 stuff or if I want to do a time-based evolution when I know I'm going to be busy when it occurs naturally. (i.e. Use Dusk Balls for stuff when my nights are busy, daylight evolutions when I missed the cutoff, etc.)

 

On a more seious note, I think they got rid of HM's because Pokemon riding takes it's place. For Strength: Tauros. For Surf: Sharpedo and Lapras. For Fly: Charizard. Not sure about the others like Cut, Waterfall, Dive, Defog and Rock Smash.

 

Also, if the Gen 4 games get remade, will they still use HM's with the applied physics of Gen 7?

 

If Gen 3 / ORAS are any indication, then likely yes. However, assuming the trend keeps up, we shouldn't worry about Gen 4 remakes for another couple years (unless they break it). Yeah, Pokemon Riding and HMs will conflict in certain ways, but they could just reserve the HMs for small stuff and riding for larger obstacles.

 

(Also the fact they need to make Defog widely available again)

[Flame Dragon]

So, I was talking with a friend and based on what he said the bottle caps don't change the actual IV value. Instead it just increases the stat. Assuming that is right you can have various Hidden Powers without sacrificing a stat.

 

Another change is when you Mega Evolve it uses the Speed of the Mega form, not base.

 

Ray can't Mega evolve if it has a Z-Crystal.

 

Not sure if it was brought up here, but I'm pretty sure I saw people talking about it somewhere. So, just gonna say looks like no Eviolite nerf.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I would probably prefer having the actual IV raised, if partly for breeding purposes and also desired Hidden Powers that are relevant for competitive.

 

As for Mega Rayquaza, I don't think it really needs a Z-Crystal, considering how crazy it already is without requiring a Mega Stone and holding Life Orb / Choice Band, etc. Otherwise, it'll probably be just as nuts if it does hold a Z-Crystal for stuff.

 

----

As for the new changes to Mega Evolution, Lucario and a bunch of other stuff that get buffed speed (read: most of them) will enjoy it, but Mega 'chomp and some others won't.

[Flame Dragon]

I would probably prefer having the actual IV raised, if partly for breeding purposes and also desired Hidden Powers that are relevant for competitive.

 

As for Mega Rayquaza, I don't think it really needs a Z-Crystal, considering how crazy it already is without requiring a Mega Stone and holding Life Orb / Choice Band, etc. Otherwise, it'll probably be just as nuts if it does hold a Z-Crystal for stuff.

 

----

As for the new changes to Mega Evolution, Lucario and a bunch of other stuff that get buffed speed (read: most of them) will enjoy it, but Mega 'chomp and some others won't.

Right, that is the major downside. You still need a 6 IV ditto. That or a LOT of bottle caps.

 

Yea, this makes Megas a fair bit stronger. Not to mention it makes Protect a lot less needed.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I know I have a perfect Ditto from someone I traded with locally a couple years ago (well, on public transport going home, but yeah); just need to check if that shiny one I have really is a 6 IV one. But yeah, we still don't know how Hyper Training functions; is it all the way to 31, or just a certain amount? Assuming Bottle Caps will be hard to get, so either you can breed them properly with Ditto or just reset like crazy until you get good IVs.

 

If it just pumps the stat, then it'll save some time (although, would the stat reset to its actual value before Hyper Training in future games that don't recognize it or remain the same). IV boosting would be more permanent, but unsure about it. If it pumps the stat itself, then it's close to a concept that other online Pokemon game I used to play had to an extent. Won't mention its name because advertising.

 

----

I have a LOT of Pokemon that I want Hyper Trained, but don't think I'll have enough Bottle Caps to train them all. Gen 6 stuff is less tedious (and would just require that I pump their Speed or offensive stats); stuff I imported from Unova is more work (imperfect speed or attacking).

[Astro Dude]

@~BS~: Only reason I reset the clock nowadays is pretty much Gen 5 stuff or if I want to do a time-based evolution when I know I'm going to be busy when it occurs naturally. (i.e. Use Dusk Balls for stuff when my nights are busy, daylight evolutions when I missed the cutoff, etc.)

 

 

If Gen 3 / ORAS are any indication, then likely yes. However, assuming the trend keeps up, we shouldn't worry about Gen 4 remakes for another couple years (unless they break it). Yeah, Pokemon Riding and HMs will conflict in certain ways, but they could just reserve the HMs for small stuff and riding for larger obstacles.

 

(Also the fact they need to make Defog widely available again)

That's true, but can a riding pokemon like Sharpedo go up a waterfall?

[Darj]

Decided to post here for once; not sure why I honestly haven't been. Here's some of my thoughts too.

 

Have you checked out Golisopod? Slow af, but makes up for it with its super high Attack and Defense, as well as access to Priority moves like Aqua Jet for STAB. Ability makes it very good as a tactic combining with its signature move. Give a strong blow on the first attack Golisopod comes out, then if Golisopod survives around half, you get a risk-free switch. Combined with Life Orb it might potentially be a monstrous hit-and-run kind of Pokemon, and not to mention Leech Life i Base 80 is also a thing. Pairing with Wish works out very well so something like Togekiss or Jirachi would be good supporters cause of Thunder Wave & Serene Grace. 

 

Mimikyu is also pretty lethal as well. Aside from being the other unique Physical Ghost-type, Disguise with Focus Sash ensures not dying in 2 turns, so it can x4 Attack boost with Swords Dance and then priority Sucker Punch. If you bait a switch, stacking a Substitute can be annoying af. It's got decent Sp. Def to counter against opposing Ghosts and Poison, has access to crippling status moves like Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave, as well as other powerful STAB moves like Play Rough.

 

Minior is incredibly solid; It learns Shell Smash and Cosmic Power, so under the right condtions, this thing can be a powerhouse. Only thing holding it back is its subpar speed, but it can yield a good amount of powerful moves like Acrobatics so with a Sitrus Berry use + Shields Down can be devastating. Rock Slide is a good STAB in Multiples and Stealth Rock is a good setup.

 

Bruxish is a decent anti-Priority tech so it has somewhat of a niche to prevent your other teammates from being weak to certain Priority. Swap it in against something like Aqua Jet Azuramill or Bullet Punch Scizor, then under a bait & switch setup a Reflect/Light Screen. It's got a limited movepool but it has very well-rounded stats that will make these moves effective.

 

Yes, Golisopod and Minior are among the promising gems from Alola.

 

I noticed Bruxish, and yeah, it looks more like a niche Pokemon to counter priorities. But I suspect its Water/Psychic, which AFAIK is too vulnerable, and average bulk won't let it reach too high from a competitive standpoint.

 

Mimikyu, I overlooked it after glancing at its base stats, but now that you pointed it out, I agree it looks promising. As you explain, its ability makes it easier for it to set up stat boost, plus it has access to utility moves as well as the odd physical move like Wood Hammer (it's cute because I found that its "tail" is actually an stick, so this move in its learnset makes sense now) and the buffed Leech Life. You can even try a more bulky approach with Bulk Up. And Play Rough is such a blessing; I was reading on the island legendaries, and it was mentioned how the 2 physically-offensive ones didn't get access to any physical Fairy-Type move with good base power.

 

Speaking of Leech Life, I love what they did with it: not only its base power was raised to 80, also it's available as a TM. It ought to do favors to so many Pokemon.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

That's true, but can a riding pokemon like Sharpedo go up a waterfall?

 

We don't know that right now; maybe Sharpedo will be able to go up a waterfall without actually needing the move (although you'd probably still keep it for a powerful STAB that's reliable).

 

One of my gripes about Hyper Training, if it doesn't actually change the IVs and just makes the stat what it would've been if it were, would the stat reset to what it should be pre-training when transferred to another game or keep its new stats? Reason I'd prefer to boost the IV instead is that it's permanent, would lower the need for 6 IV Ditto (or other breeding parents) and yeah, wouldn't have the above issue if the game doesn't recognize the trained stats.

 

(I would assume future games will account for that, but yeah)

 

-----

Oh right, and Soul Dew got nerfed hard (only works on Eon STAB moves now). Probably old news by now, but yeah, can't say I'm happy about this one (even though I have Mega Evolution and/or Life Orb as an alternative option)

 

* insert upset Latias face here *

[Flame Dragon]

One of my gripes about Hyper Training, if it doesn't actually change the IVs and just makes the stat what it would've been if it were, would the stat reset to what it should be pre-training when transferred to another game or keep its new stats? Reason I'd prefer to boost the IV instead is that it's permanent, would lower the need for 6 IV Ditto (or other breeding parents) and yeah, wouldn't have the above issue if the game doesn't recognize the trained stats.

 

(I would assume future games will account for that, but yeah)

 

-----

Oh right, and Soul Dew got nerfed hard (only works on Eon STAB moves now). Probably old news by now, but yeah, can't say I'm happy about this one (even though I have Mega Evolution and/or Life Orb as an alternative option)

 

* insert upset Latias face here *

For trading/transferring the Pokemon I'm assuming it will keep the stat. And while the breeding issue is one, getting any Hidden Power is a nice upside.

 

I don't think Soul Dew was nerfed. It seems to me like it was buffed. Smogon says nothing about it losing its previous affect, but now has the added effect of boosting its STAB by 20%.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

 

 

Q) Has this ability or move been nerfed?

A) Here's confirmation / deconfirmation of various nerfs and buffs. If you have any information confirming / deconfirming nerfs or buffs, please PM an OI Mod (DHR-107Nexus TheMantyke Codraroll NoCheese )

• Gale Wings - Has been nerfed - will now only be active while the Pokemon's HP is full.
• Soul Dew - Has been nerfed - Soul Dew now only boosts Latios and Latias's Dragon and Psychic-type moves only.
• Unaware - Has NOT been nerfed - Unaware still works as it did in Gen 6
• Eviolite - Has NOT been nerfed - Rumors that the defensive boost is x1.2 instead of x1.5 have arisen. They are false.
• Knock Off - Has NOT been nerfed - has been tested, same mechanics as Gen 6

 

If it does boost the STAB instead, then that's great. To be honest, I really don't think Soul Dew needed a nerf considering that the Eons would be pushed to Ubers anyway. 

 

That's where I found the info though; really hope it got buffed, but we'll see. 

[Flame Dragon]

If it does boost the STAB instead, then that's great. To be honest, I really don't think Soul Dew needed a nerf considering that the Eons would be pushed to Ubers anyway. 

 

That's where I found the info though; really hope it got buffed, but we'll see.

Interesting. Not sure which report to believe. As for the Eons, they were both OU Gens 5 and 6. They just ban soul dew from OU if its too good. If it is a nerf, this might let them use it in OU.

 

My guess for why they might nerf it is to make the Megas have a chance to compare to it. As it was, Soul Dew was just better.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

To be fair, Mega Eons do get a physical Defense buff, whereas Soul Dew ones don't (but the Special Defense buff isn't as substantial). Out of fairness, I don't really see people using Latios's Mega (as the old Life Orb sets are still better for the most part, outside of needing a stronger EQ or something to deal with special walls); Latias is a definite Mega candidate though. Can say I use the latter most of the time, even if I have it on a sweeper set that should be for her brother (spread-wise).

 

I want to believe it got buffed for Gen 7, but yeah. (Gamefreak also wanted to buff some of the other stuff that's currently PU-tier [aka gimmick Pokemon that not many care for], looking at some of the leaks)

[Flame Dragon]

To be fair, Mega Eons do get a physical Defense buff, whereas Soul Dew ones don't (but the Special Defense buff isn't as substantial). Out of fairness, I don't really see people using Latios's Mega (as the old Life Orb sets are still better for the most part, outside of needing a stronger EQ or something to deal with special walls); Latias is a definite Mega candidate though. Can say I use the latter most of the time, even if I have it on a sweeper set that should be for her brother (spread-wise).

 

I want to believe it got buffed for Gen 7, but yeah. (Gamefreak also wanted to buff some of the other stuff that's currently PU-tier [aka gimmick Pokemon that not many care for], looking at some of the leaks)

I know Bibarel is actually a Pokemon now since it has Sword Dance Aqua Jet backed by Simple.

 

In other news, Male/Genderless Pokemon can now pass down their ball with Ditto. This makes me SOOOOOO happy.

[~British Soul~]

UB05-Gluttony looks kinda scary tbph, Not something you would want to bump into in a dark alley that's for sure.