Pokemon Sun & Moon

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

[spoiler=stuff]

1. I was hoping the other final evo stats were fine, and would've certainly been fine with those. At least Incineroar would've had a good enough speed (base 116); now they're all the same speed as Swampert (aka really slow), barring the owl.

 

I suppose it does make Primarina a very powerful Sp. Atk mon, but I would've liked it to have more speed than this. Base 74 would've been fine (hey, it at least outruns Samurott). Will have to double check once the game comes out. But yeah, if these starters are extremely slow, then it's a first.

 

2. RIP perfectly accurate Thunder Waves; might help with not getting Paraflinched or something every so often.

Bye Dark Void, it was nice knowing you when you were extremely accurate instead of a coin flip.

Not too thrilled about Gengar losing Levitate either; Cursed Body is really bad for it (sure, the opponent can't use the killing move, but I'd rather take immunity to Spikes and EQ). Although if we Mega Evolve it, the loss of Levitate won't be an issue.

Gale Wings works like Multiscale/stuff now? Well, I guess no more getting priority CB Brave Birds every turn. (Talonflame is still pretty fast on its own though)

 

 

 

I only looked at the starter stats; not the rest.

[Tourmaline]

MINIOR THE LOVE OF MY LIFE JUMPING TO OU AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I accidentally learned some of the nerfs.

[spoiler=Thoughts]I kinda hate the Gale Wings one. T-Flame is super meh without Gale Wings. And completely full health is hard to do. However....It definitely means no more Brave Bird T-Flame. Acro or bust.

Knock Off being weaker is...well. I mean....Knock Off wasn't really broken. It was one of the best moves but like, if you just make all the best things worse it just makes new things the best. Idk I feel a lot of these nerfs are kinda knee-jerk. Taking the strong things and just weakening them all. I don't like that. Knock Off will still be used but not as much. And now Dark is a fairly weak type. Like what else do they have, Night Slash?

 

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

[spoiler=Well, I decided to look at the rest of the stuff for Alola]

I've been noticing A LOT of the Sun/Moon 'mons are really slow in their final evolutions (aka starting out fast, then slowing down when they evolve). That's something I'm kinda iffy about, especially when choosing a team. I have a preference for faster 'mons so I can hit quickly, but can make do with slower stuff if they serve something (would also help if I gotta deal with Trick Room users)

 

My general definition of speed tiers (you guys may have different levels):

• 110+ = great
• 100-109 = good
• 81-99 = average
• 70-80 = passable
• 55-69 = a bit slow for my liking
• 54 and below = really slow

Thoughts

• At least Midday Lycanroc is significantly fast, so keeping that. (112 spd is amazing)
• Mudsdale's slower than I thought it'd be (granted, Mudsbray isn't that fast to begin with, but would've liked it to be at least base 65-70 or something). At least I know what type of training to give it (bulky physical hitter)
• Salandit has good Sp.Atk and Spd, so may be considering that now.
• Vikavolt only has base 43 speed? I get that it has an amazing base 145 Sp.Atk, but again speed is an issue. Given appearance, it would've thought it'd be quicker than this.
• Silvally only gets a speed buff when it evolves, but it does become like a mini-Arceus in a way. As much as I would've liked for base 100 across the board, that would put it in event legendary territory stat-wise. (Base 95 is cool though, but I probably expected a bit more)
• Minior's Shields Down form may be worth a shot now, as is Mimikyu.
• Kommo-o line is still up for consideration.
• Island Guardians / box legendaries have pretty decent stats; box ones even more so.

In other words, knowing some of the stats and movepools of the Alola 'mons has made me reconsider some choices that I may like for my team (but ultimately, a general idea of how I should go about training them). That in mind, if some of the older 'mons are available, I may end up adding them on to team in place of stuff I'm iffy about.

 

Nothing wrong with the 'mons in general, but rather that they weren't what I had expected.

 

 

[Flame Dragon]

[spoiler=New Pokemon]

Yea, I've more or less seen all the stats and this gen is slow. Also, feels like the BSTs are lower then I would have expected.

 

Honestly, I'm really curious how old Pokemon are going to change with this gen. Between various nerfs and buffs and new move looks like a lot might be moving around. Makes me wonder how much more competitive breeding I should do.

 

 

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I know one thing.

I'm gonna cry when I have to delete/re-do basically all of my teams on Showdown.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I'll probably have to redo my competitive teams in-game, but I don't think I'll have to make too many adjustments. I don't think Showdown saved my teams from Gen 5, and that's the last time I ever touched it.

 

Let's see how things turn out, and whether or not my current stuff can go on, or I need to adjust accordingly. Nerfed Talonflame isn't too much of an issue, but I had been considering one for a while; guess that I may need to reconsider.

[Astro Dude]

Yeah, why are you asking?

Cause with this ability, Disarming Voice will be Water move instead of Fairy.

 

Also, why are the starters slow as molasses? Look at Greninja, Sceptile, Infernape. They have great speed. Why give Decidueye, Incineroar and Primarina the same base speed?

[Flame Dragon]

I know one thing.

I'm gonna cry when I have to delete/re-do basically all of my teams on Showdown.

I literally have well over a 100 competitively breed Pokemon. It kind of sucks that a number of them won't be able to carry over with all the changes, but I have some number of extra perfects for a bunch of them and everyone has some number of 4 IVs sitting in the Pokebank. Breeding new ones should it come to it shouldn't be that bad since 4/5 IVs, natures, egg moves, and abilities are already set.

 

Cause with this ability, Disarming Voice will be Water move instead of Fairy.

 

Also, why are the starters slow as molasses? Look at Greninja, Sceptile, Infernape. They have great speed. Why give Decidueye, Incineroar and Primarina the same base speed?

That is a weird change for Disarming Voice. Most sound moves won't have that though.

 

Decidueye is actually faster than the other two. As for why they are so slow, most starters aren't that fast. The trend is 1 speedster per gen. That is broken, but it isn't a massive change. And, in general, this gens Pokemon are slow.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

The speed starters for the past six gens are Charizard, Typhlosion (ignore the fact their BSTs are copied), Sceptile (I suppose Blaziken can count if you factor in Mega Evolution and ability), Infernape, Serperior, Greninja and Delphox.

 

8/18 is still fine, but yeah.

 

----

I don't know why they made this generation slow (and it better not be toying around with the concept of "I'm on Hawaiian time"*). I had expected Primarina to be the slow one, but certainly not the other two starters as well. But yeah, Decidueye has base 74, which is faster, but still slow by my standards. I guess they're not as slow as Torterra, which is base 56 (but it's a tortoise; you think that thing's going to be quick?), however just not appealing.

 

* reason people use for being late for something (I doubt this is the case for the slow speeds)

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Cause with this ability, Disarming Voice will be Water move instead of Fairy.

 

Also, why are the starters slow as molasses? Look at Greninja, Sceptile, Infernape. They have great speed. Why give Decidueye, Incineroar and Primarina the same base speed?

I think the reason has to do with the timing Popplio gets the move.Disarming Voice wouldn't get STAB till final evolve(which by then wouldn't be that useful anyways) so to make it still really strong early game they type change it. That's just my guess though.

[Flame Dragon]

The speed starters for the past six gens are Charizard, Typhlosion (ignore the fact their BSTs are copied), Sceptile (I suppose Blaziken can count if you factor in Mega Evolution and ability), Infernape, Serperior, Greninja and Delphox.

 

8/18 is still fine, but yeah.

 

----

I don't know why they made this generation slow (and it better not be toying around with the concept of "I'm on Hawaiian time"*). I had expected Primarina to be the slow one, but certainly not the other two starters as well. But yeah, Decidueye has base 74, which is faster, but still slow by my standards. I guess they're not as slow as Torterra, which is base 56 (but it's a tortoise; you think that thing's going to be quick?), however just not appealing.

 

* reason people use for being late for something (I doubt this is the case for the slow speeds)

Eye only has 70 base speed.

 

I think they are trying to move away from last gen where speed was everything. That being said, the new Pokemon still need to compete so how things end up playing out still remains to be seen.

 

 

In other news, Z-Moves are much more than just super moves from what I've been able to gather. This makes me really happy and I'm interested in how things will play out with them.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Oh right, regarding Z-Moves they get through Protect though their Damage is reduced.

 

Also Z-Move with Splash is Oped if I recall.

[Snatch Steal]

[spoiler=Spoiler]

 

>gale wings only works at full health

Ok but why?

Talonflame wasn't OP to begin with. There are at least 2 hard talonflame walls in OU and several checks including the ever-present Stealth Rock.

I'm assuming Talon will now be RU at best to be honest. I wouldn't even use it period if they nerf Gale Wings so much.

And they nerfed Gengar? Why did base form Gengar need to be nerfed? Levitate was a perfectly good ability for it. I don't remember base form Gengar being particularly outstanding in VGC so this is a shock.

 

 

 

[~British Soul~]

[spoiler=Regarding nerfs]

Knock Off got nerfed? Is its power near to what it was originally or something?
​(For reference: it was originally 20 power)

 

 

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

[spoiler=Spoiler]

 

>gale wings only works at full health

Ok but why?

Talonflame wasn't OP to begin with. There are at least 2 hard talonflame walls in OU and several checks including the ever-present Stealth Rock.

I'm assuming Talon will now be RU at best to be honest. I wouldn't even use it period if they nerf Gale Wings so much.

And they nerfed Gengar? Why did base form Gengar need to be nerfed? Levitate was a perfectly good ability for it. I don't remember base form Gengar being particularly outstanding in VGC so this is a shock.

 

 

 

 

[spoiler=Response]

1. IDK, maybe Gamefreak didn't do their own playtests of their own 'mons and/or people who don't play OU complained that Gale Wings was OP'd coupled with base 126 spd. I really don't know. Yeah, getting CB Brave Bird-ed sucks, but that's about it.

 

2. I don't see a reason for Gengar to be nerfed; it's already fragile enough with low defenses and certainly enough checks to deal with it otherwise.

 

Not going to point fingers at specific players or Gamefreak for the nerfs, but yeah, Gengar was fine.

 

 

[Snatch Steal]

[spoiler=Spoiler]

 

I mean the thing about Talonflame is that its attack stat is tiny. Mega Gardevoir has more Attack than Talonflame. Priority Brave Bird is balanced because Pokémon who resist it can take the hit very easily and prevent it from setting up using their own attacks because Talonflame usually lacks bulk and is prone to residual damage.

Basically, if people are smart enough to know the fundamentals of competitive Pokémon, they will prepare for Talon, otherwise they should just play with their friends and not jabroni about it. Talonflame was very healthy in that it checked several Pokémon who were threatening like Mega Lopunny, Serperior, and Mega Venusaur. I hope a new Flying-Type can replace Talon.

 

 

 

[Flame Dragon]

Oh right, regarding Z-Moves they get through Protect though their Damage is reduced.

 

Also Z-Move with Splash is Oped if I recall.

 

+3 ATK. Not worth giving up the move slot most likely. 

 

[spoiler=Spoiler]

 

>gale wings only works at full health

Ok but why?

Talonflame wasn't OP to begin with. There are at least 2 hard talonflame walls in OU and several checks including the ever-present Stealth Rock.

I'm assuming Talon will now be RU at best to be honest. I wouldn't even use it period if they nerf Gale Wings so much.

And they nerfed Gengar? Why did base form Gengar need to be nerfed? Levitate was a perfectly good ability for it. I don't remember base form Gengar being particularly outstanding in VGC so this is a shock.

 

 

 

 

[spoiler=Nerfs]

If I were to guess, Gale Wings got hit because of VGC and Tailwind. But, having a priority 120 base power move is still kind of nuts.

 

No idea why they went after Gengar. Which sucks because he is one of the few Pokemon to have always been OU. This is likely to change with this gen.

 

 

 

[spoiler=Regarding nerfs]

Knock Off got nerfed? Is its power near to what it was originally or something?

​(For reference: it was originally 20 power)

 

 

From what I can tell, the move has not changed.

 

https://paste.ee/r/zYMUr

 

Control F for (!) to see things that have been changed. The change is on the top. My guess is the items mean they have had a change in the % chance they'll hold it. Doesn't flag if they Pokemon has had new moves learnable (Arcanine gets Burn Up for example).

 

https://paste.ee/r/mvJ70

 

New Moves. Same search for changes. The flags are likely for new abilities. See all the Dance moves that have them.

 

https://paste.ee/r/8LT3s

 

New Abilities

 

https://paste.ee/r/zFXRA

 

New Items

[Astro Dude]

Awesome. Will this mean Shellder will have to use an Ice Stone, or Eevee?

 

Also, has anyone figured out how to fix the demo timeloop?

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

[spoiler=Spoiler]

 

I mean the thing about Talonflame is that its attack stat is tiny. Mega Gardevoir has more Attack than Talonflame. Priority Brave Bird is balanced because Pokémon who resist it can take the hit very easily and prevent it from setting up using their own attacks because Talonflame usually lacks bulk and is prone to residual damage.

Basically, if people are smart enough to know the fundamentals of competitive Pokémon, they will prepare for Talon, otherwise they should just play with their friends and not jabroni about it. Talonflame was very healthy in that it checked several Pokémon who were threatening like Mega Lopunny, Serperior, and Mega Venusaur. I hope a new Flying-Type can replace Talon.

 

 

 

[spoiler=Response]

Yeah, base 81 isn't something you can boast about to your friends, hence why you need Choice Band and/or an Adamant nature (correct me if I'm wrong and people still chose a Jolly nature for theirs). If it were higher (i.e. Staraptor-level), then yeah we'd have an issue.

 

Granted, I haven't touched Showdown for a good while, but I have run into Gale Wings Talonflame during Institute/Maison battles (yeah, it's an AI as opposed to an actual player who will switch if needed, but what can I do about it?)

 

Hopefully we do get a new one, but just gotta see what ends up being good enough to deal with the faster threats.

 

 

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

 

+3 ATK. Not worth giving up the move slot most likely. 

 

 

Well look at it this way, It's half a Belly Drum on Gyarados without the health lose. I think it also does damage but I could be wrong about that.

 

Speaking of Belly Drum, used with a Z-Move first heals health and then does Belly Drums effect meaning you could use it below half health.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

 

+3 ATK. Not worth giving up the move slot most likely.

Jumpluff. Splash, Seed Bomb, Acrobatics, Sleep Powder.

I hereby declare I will run this on a team.

[~British Soul~]

From what I can tell, the move has not changed.

 

https://paste.ee/r/zYMUr

It appears whoever I saw that said Knock Off got a nerf was misinformed then.

[Blake]

tbh the funniest thing about splash z-move is that solgaleo and lunala have access to it because WHY NOT

[Flame Dragon]

It appears whoever I saw that said Knock Off got a nerf was misinformed then.

I had seen that too, but that would seem to not be the case.

 

Also, important to remember that the links I shared don't cover everything. Ability changes like what happened with Gale Wings, or mechanical changes like Destiny Bond failing if spammed are things I haven't seen in in the data mining dumps, but seen said by the people sharing the data dumps.