FE: Fates

[Raine]

[Raine]

[Blake]

Alright, finally got around to finishing Revelation. Just got lazy about it, and idk why.

 

Overall...

 

SPOILERS DERP

 

[spoiler=Conquest]

Gameplay: Really challenging at points, but never really unfair. I haven't played lunatic yet, but overall, I had fun with it, I just misplayed it at first due to the bad habits Awakening gives you. Really works with the new mechanics, though maybe 1-2 chapters are a little TOO gimmicky with the Dragon Veins. Most are good uses, though. 9.5/10

 

Story: Easily the best of the three. I was interested from start to finish, despite the confusion due to WHY Iago is such an asshat (I'm still unsure), but the general flow was solid, and not like regular FE. Not perfect, but good. I enjoyed that this was about "peace" and love, and trying to find a solution that worked best, even if required looking sullied to the world. 8.5/10

 

Characters: Very, very, VERY good cast. They are enjoyable and well written, and I'm always interested to see where it goes. Like FE8, it's one of the few games in the series where you have fully defined characters without NEEDING supports to do so, but you still reap benefits from them.

 

As for the returns; Selena!Severa, Odin!Owain, and Lazlow!Inigo... I don't mind it. It's not out yet here, but there IS a reason for them being there. It's a bit shoehorned, but it's used to develop an important character a lot more, which is needed. They show further development for those three, and they're executed well, overall.

 

I'd give the cast a 9/10

 

Other: Money is a little too tight without the money DLC, which just CHUCKS money at you. At least, the first playthrough. Playing through Revelation, I found less need for money outside of seals, so IDK.

 

Overall: 9/10

 

[spoiler=Birthright]

Gameplay: Honestly? Insulting, almost, at least after Conquest. It's certainly better than Awakening, but it's still really easy a lot of the time, where an entire one chapter seems somewhat difficult, as well as one that's bullshit if you do it blind due to takign for funking ever. That's really it, though, and it leaves a lot to be desired. 7/10, for improving I guess.

 

Story: I don't like the story. At all. It's a story of "justice", but that really means "justified revenge, which just so happens to make the world better". Despite being sold as the traditional FE story, it isn't, but in odd ways. It has a lot of hatred involved. Unlike almost any other lord, you aren't fighting to "save" in this one. You are fighting to get rid of Garon. If that saves the kingdom, fine, but that comes across as a tertiary goal. Just take the chapter Xander for example; You basically say "pls let me pass", Xander says no, and then you tell Elise "welp i tried, fight time".

 

I understand that there is a Light in the Darkness (Conquest) and Darkness in the Light (Birthright) theme, as if to sumbolize Yin and Yang, but it doesn't work. Nevermind that, instead of continuing to make Zola a playable character, he was just a borderline total traitor. He was very gollum like, so I suppose it's not too out of line, but Gollum was more defined, and he had a specific reason. Zola believed in you and cared about you, but still betrayed you, albeit while begging for you to be pardoned.

 

It felt a lot more meanspirited than the other two stories, and it wasn't about saving anyone. Even for the Hoshidan siblings, they seemed like they mostly wanted to avenge their mother, as opposed to save Hoshido, which makes it all very sad.

 

Playing this game made me have moments that reminded my Undertale; "What have I done?" "Why did I ruin their happy ending?"- I felt like I got a bad end here, and that many more lives were taken for "justice" rather than Nohr's "peace", where many lives were spared when able, in addition to the lives that WERE lost were not done by your hands in Conquest; Your family shielded you, except for one. And you develop DESPITE that, but it develops your family members more, as well.

 

I'd give it a 5/10. It's not bad, but it's not good, at least not next to Nohr.

 

Characters: Unmemorable, for the most part. Your siblings, Subaki, Oboro, Hayato, and Kaden stand out, but that's not enough to salvage the rest of them being so... bland. The children are msotly better, though I never met Mitama, but they still aren't as strong as the Nohrian characters, overall. 5/10

 

Other: Grinding is honestly easy as sheet, which means you can reliably use characters you want to, but get too late/etc, so that's nice.

 

Overall: While the average is slightly lower, I'd give it a 6/10. The overall experience is fine, it just has issues.

 

[spoiler=Revelation]

Gameplay: Chapter 7 is dumb blind. Other stuff is neat. The later you go, the more "wat" the design gets, like having to remove locks while riding sliding rooms, or having to sneak around as if you were in Hyrule Castle Garden. It is really gimmicky, and I just feel like, while it had higher points than Birthright, it was overall weak due to the low points. 5.5/10

 

Story: Uuuuuuh... It starts out okay, but it gets funking weird. And there are a few questionable choices based around playable party members that make no funking sense. The main villain, aside from the true villain, was dumb, the story feels rushed, you feel TOO goody two shoes here (unlike in Conquest), and you just have to wonder what the funk. There were enjoyable moments, but again, overall weaker. 4.5/10

 

Characters: While there is only 1 new character, and he replaces another optional late game character, it does help the Hoshidan characters out. Interacting with the more interesting Nohrians makes them shine brighter, and SakuraxLeo is probably my favorite pairing so far, though both were fine in their own routes. It's not fair to give this a full rating, though the story characterizations are a bit weaker here, but I will give it points for spicing up the bleh Hoshidans. 7/10

 

Other: Uuuugh why do you spend the first 6-8~ chapters with minimal Nohrians. It's really annoying that you can't pair people up as efficiently due to not being able to get them married, which means the Hoshidans do just as well in Birthright. This was a major flaw in my eyes, as you really do need more Nohrians. You also get Silas way too funking late. Not to mention Lilith is EVEN MORE IRRELEVANT here. Hopefully the DLC shapes her up.

 

I was also confused by how... The avatar seems to grow more weakly in this one? Maybe it was bad luck, but...

 

Also, the Revelation is that the name Birthright is dumb.

 

OH, but one plus side; The friendship seal is super funking helpful here, because it gives access to classes otherwise off limits/close to it.

 

Overall: Given the flaws, while it would be around the same percentage as Birthright in theory, I do have to take points off for the other segment. It really takes away from the idea of mixing, and it just feels like what Birthright "should have been"; A story about not shirking your birthright, but not shirking your family, either. I understand why we have A, B, and AB, but this isn't really AB so much as A with extra, which is just... Odd.

 

5.5/10

 

 

 

Overall, I appreciate most of the new mechanics/changes, though some need refinement, like the A/G stances. Some things are broken, namely DLC related stuff, but it's overall fine.

 

Also, not sure but, uh... It seems like Ninja is hands down the best secondary class for Corrin. Locktouch is always good, Poison Strike is good early/for helping little ones grow, Lethality is okay mid-game/Golembane helps if you need it, and Shurikenfaire/REPLICATE are good depending on your build. Okay, Replicate is plain good, but shhh.

 

That said, I would say make sure you have access to Quixotic for ingame, because that skill is mmm.

 

I just wish Yato wasn't sheet outside of killing the final bosses. Range is more important than ever in this trio...

 

Overall, Fates gets a 6.83~% rating, but the individual games do shine, Conquest most brightly. Rather ironically, at that. It's not a bad installment, and the mechanics are good, but 2/3 are just not very refined in story, characters, or gameplay, so I find them wanting.

[Raine]

Alright, finally got around to finishing Revelation. Just got lazy about it, and idk why.

 

Overall...

 

SPOILERS DERP

 

[spoiler=Conquest]

Gameplay: Really challenging at points, but never really unfair. I haven't played lunatic yet, but overall, I had fun with it, I just misplayed it at first due to the bad habits Awakening gives you. Really works with the new mechanics, though maybe 1-2 chapters are a little TOO gimmicky with the Dragon Veins. Most are good uses, though. 9.5/10

 

Story: Easily the best of the three. I was interested from start to finish, despite the confusion due to WHY Iago is such an asshat (I'm still unsure), but the general flow was solid, and not like regular FE. Not perfect, but good. I enjoyed that this was about "peace" and love, and trying to find a solution that worked best, even if required looking sullied to the world. 8.5/10

 

Characters: Very, very, VERY good cast. They are enjoyable and well written, and I'm always interested to see where it goes. Like FE8, it's one of the few games in the series where you have fully defined characters without NEEDING supports to do so, but you still reap benefits from them.

 

As for the returns; Selena!Severa, Odin!Owain, and Lazlow!Inigo... I don't mind it. It's not out yet here, but there IS a reason for them being there. It's a bit shoehorned, but it's used to develop an important character a lot more, which is needed. They show further development for those three, and they're executed well, overall.

 

I'd give the cast a 9/10

 

Other: Money is a little too tight without the money DLC, which just CHUCKS money at you. At least, the first playthrough. Playing through Revelation, I found less need for money outside of seals, so IDK.

 

Overall: 9/10

 

[spoiler=Birthright]

Gameplay: Honestly? Insulting, almost, at least after Conquest. It's certainly better than Awakening, but it's still really easy a lot of the time, where an entire one chapter seems somewhat difficult, as well as one that's bullshit if you do it blind due to takign for funking ever. That's really it, though, and it leaves a lot to be desired. 7/10, for improving I guess.

 

Story: I don't like the story. At all. It's a story of "justice", but that really means "justified revenge, which just so happens to make the world better". Despite being sold as the traditional FE story, it isn't, but in odd ways. It has a lot of hatred involved. Unlike almost any other lord, you aren't fighting to "save" in this one. You are fighting to get rid of Garon. If that saves the kingdom, fine, but that comes across as a tertiary goal. Just take the chapter Xander for example; You basically say "pls let me pass", Xander says no, and then you tell Elise "welp i tried, fight time".

 

I understand that there is a Light in the Darkness (Conquest) and Darkness in the Light (Birthright) theme, as if to sumbolize Yin and Yang, but it doesn't work. Nevermind that, instead of continuing to make Zola a playable character, he was just a borderline total traitor. He was very gollum like, so I suppose it's not too out of line, but Gollum was more defined, and he had a specific reason. Zola believed in you and cared about you, but still betrayed you, albeit while begging for you to be pardoned.

 

It felt a lot more meanspirited than the other two stories, and it wasn't about saving anyone. Even for the Hoshidan siblings, they seemed like they mostly wanted to avenge their mother, as opposed to save Hoshido, which makes it all very sad.

 

Playing this game made me have moments that reminded my Undertale; "What have I done?" "Why did I ruin their happy ending?"- I felt like I got a bad end here, and that many more lives were taken for "justice" rather than Nohr's "peace", where many lives were spared when able, in addition to the lives that WERE lost were not done by your hands in Conquest; Your family shielded you, except for one. And you develop DESPITE that, but it develops your family members more, as well.

 

I'd give it a 5/10. It's not bad, but it's not good, at least not next to Nohr.

 

Characters: Unmemorable, for the most part. Your siblings, Subaki, Oboro, Hayato, and Kaden stand out, but that's not enough to salvage the rest of them being so... bland. The children are msotly better, though I never met Mitama, but they still aren't as strong as the Nohrian characters, overall. 5/10

 

Other: Grinding is honestly easy as sheet, which means you can reliably use characters you want to, but get too late/etc, so that's nice.

 

Overall: While the average is slightly lower, I'd give it a 6/10. The overall experience is fine, it just has issues.

 

[spoiler=Revelation]

Gameplay: Chapter 7 is dumb blind. Other stuff is neat. The later you go, the more "wat" the design gets, like having to remove locks while riding sliding rooms, or having to sneak around as if you were in Hyrule Castle Garden. It is really gimmicky, and I just feel like, while it had higher points than Birthright, it was overall weak due to the low points. 5.5/10

 

Story: Uuuuuuh... It starts out okay, but it gets funking weird. And there are a few questionable choices based around playable party members that make no funking sense. The main villain, aside from the true villain, was dumb, the story feels rushed, you feel TOO goody two shoes here (unlike in Conquest), and you just have to wonder what the funk. There were enjoyable moments, but again, overall weaker. 4.5/10

 

Characters: While there is only 1 new character, and he replaces another optional late game character, it does help the Hoshidan characters out. Interacting with the more interesting Nohrians makes them shine brighter, and SakuraxLeo is probably my favorite pairing so far, though both were fine in their own routes. It's not fair to give this a full rating, though the story characterizations are a bit weaker here, but I will give it points for spicing up the bleh Hoshidans. 7/10

 

Other: Uuuugh why do you spend the first 6-8~ chapters with minimal Nohrians. It's really annoying that you can't pair people up as efficiently due to not being able to get them married, which means the Hoshidans do just as well in Birthright. This was a major flaw in my eyes, as you really do need more Nohrians. You also get Silas way too funking late. Not to mention Lilith is EVEN MORE IRRELEVANT here. Hopefully the DLC shapes her up.

 

I was also confused by how... The avatar seems to grow more weakly in this one? Maybe it was bad luck, but...

 

Also, the Revelation is that the name Birthright is dumb.

 

OH, but one plus side; The friendship seal is super funking helpful here, because it gives access to classes otherwise off limits/close to it.

 

Overall: Given the flaws, while it would be around the same percentage as Birthright in theory, I do have to take points off for the other segment. It really takes away from the idea of mixing, and it just feels like what Birthright "should have been"; A story about not shirking your birthright, but not shirking your family, either. I understand why we have A, B, and AB, but this isn't really AB so much as A with extra, which is just... Odd.

 

5.5/10

 

 

 

Overall, I appreciate most of the new mechanics/changes, though some need refinement, like the A/G stances. Some things are broken, namely DLC related stuff, but it's overall fine.

 

Also, not sure but, uh... It seems like Ninja is hands down the best secondary class for Corrin. Locktouch is always good, Poison Strike is good early/for helping little ones grow, Lethality is okay mid-game/Golembane helps if you need it, and Shurikenfaire/REPLICATE are good depending on your build. Okay, Replicate is plain good, but shhh.

 

That said, I would say make sure you have access to Quixotic for ingame, because that skill is mmm.

 

I just wish Yato wasn't sheet outside of killing the final bosses. Range is more important than ever in this trio...

 

Overall, Fates gets a 6.83~% rating, but the individual games do shine, Conquest most brightly. Rather ironically, at that. It's not a bad installment, and the mechanics are good, but 2/3 are just not very refined in story, characters, or gameplay, so I find them wanting.

 

9/10 review

 

- points for not taking into account second half of the game. Dating simulator and kid simulator 2016. 

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

The Birthright review was a bit weird because it looked like it would be a 7/10 all together from what you said. But it sounded like "Compared to Conquest it was bad so it gets a bad score" which is odd as Conquest you consider one of the best.

 

Also the character part. The children, siblings, and 4 characters (a total of...12?) were good and the rest unmemorable and that makes 5/10? Could just be looking at it from a grading scale (50% equals fail) but just struck me as odd.

 

Definitely a good review overall just that bit seemed strange. Not trying to argue or say you're wrong.

[Blake]

The Birthright review was a bit weird because it looked like it would be a 7/10 all together from what you said. But it sounded like "Compared to Conquest it was bad so it gets a bad score" which is odd as Conquest you consider one of the best.

 

Also the character part. The children, siblings, and 4 characters (a total of...12?) were good and the rest unmemorable and that makes 5/10? Could just be looking at it from a grading scale (50% equals fail) but just struck me as odd.

 

Definitely a good review overall just that bit seemed strange. Not trying to argue or say you're wrong.

... No...? I gave it 7/5/5 out of a possible 30. That's 17. That's less than a 6. IDG how you added up 7.

 

Being released alongside a great title hurts it a LOT, especially considering just how much simpler the gamepaly is. I get that it targets newer players, but it has no real challenge, even WITHOUT grinding. Grinding just makes it easy as piss. Lunatic is probably better, but even then, the maps aren't as interesting as Conquest's. It's like comparing X and Y, but if there were actual differences between them. Extremely comparable.

 

You can cheese most of the "difficult" chapters fairly easily, such as 24. The Hans battle chapter. Flier + Corrin = GG no re.

 

There's also the issue that it has a lot of straightforward chapters, where Conquest at least tries to shake it up a notch.

 

The fact that we got a REALLY good game alongside a pair of lesser games hurts them a lot, as it means they COULD have been on the same level.

 

Furthermore, you're taking the character statement out of context; I listed 4 interesting characters, said the kids were still worse than the Nohrian cast overall, and that the royals were fine. Though, IN Birthright, only Hinoka and Takumi seem like they get any real character, where Sakura and Ryoma are just... there? 

 

Honestly, this is the saving grace of Revelation; Most of the Hoshidan cast become more interesting, especially Sakura/Ryoma/Takumi. Hinoka... does suffer there, given minimal screentime, but still has the option to interact with the Nohrians. Both her supports with Xander and Camilla made me appreciate her a lot more, and simialr can be said of all of the royals. 

 

I feel that I can't give Revelation a higher character score because it uses premade casts mixed together, but it still manages to breathe some much needed life into the Hoshidan side, which is nice. Conquest has a  very solid cast, Birthright's is okay at best, and Revelation manages to take both of them and do great with them.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

... No...? I gave it 7/5/5 out of a possible 30. That's 17. That's less than a 6. IDG how you added up 7.

 

Being released alongside a great title hurts it a LOT, especially considering just how much simpler the gamepaly is. I get that it targets newer players, but it has no real challenge, even WITHOUT grinding. Grinding just makes it easy as piss. Lunatic is probably better, but even then, the maps aren't as interesting as Conquest's. It's like comparing X and Y, but if there were actual differences between them. Extremely comparable.

 

You can cheese most of the "difficult" chapters fairly easily, such as 24. The Hans battle chapter. Flier + Corrin = GG no re.

 

There's also the issue that it has a lot of straightforward chapters, where Conquest at least tries to shake it up a notch.

 

The fact that we got a REALLY good game alongside a pair of lesser games hurts them a lot, as it means they COULD have been on the same level.

 

Furthermore, you're taking the character statement out of context; I listed 4 interesting characters, said the kids were still worse than the Nohrian cast overall, and that the royals were fine. Though, IN Birthright, only Hinoka and Takumi seem like they get any real character, where Sakura and Ryoma are just... there? 

 

Honestly, this is the saving grace of Revelation; Most of the Hoshidan cast become more interesting, especially Sakura/Ryoma/Takumi. Hinoka... does suffer there, given minimal screentime, but still has the option to interact with the Nohrians. Both her supports with Xander and Camilla made me appreciate her a lot more, and simialr can be said of all of the royals. 

 

I feel that I can't give Revelation a higher character score because it uses premade casts mixed together, but it still manages to breathe some much needed life into the Hoshidan side, which is nice. Conquest has a  very solid cast, Birthright's is okay at best, and Revelation manages to take both of them and do great with them.

I meant that the reasons given made it sound like a 7, not that the scores you gave added up to 7. As in, take out the comparison stuff and I had expected the scores to be higher from what you said. So I was surprised.

I still disagree with the idea of comparing the two instead of looking at them separately, and that's what a lot of it sounded like, is all.

Personally I've never struggled with any non-lunatic-mode Fire Emblem game so I can't speak on that. Difficulty has never been a factor for me as I've never had a hard time.

[Blake]

That's like saying you can't compare BW to BW2, which is more accurate than a third version. You definitely can, and one of those had room to improve upon, given the gap between release, where these don't. Conquest is easily the best of the three games, and the fact that Birthright falls so short of Conquest, which it was released as an alternate version to, is very much a realistic comparison. This is even further shown in Revelation, considering that the same characters come back, but are much more interesting due to interacting with more interesting characters/having more environment to work in. Like Saizo.

 

Saizo develops very, very little in Birthright, barring supports. However, he DOES have good characterization in both Conquest and Revelation in-story. This sort of deal is why Birthright gets the lower rating; It is on the same playign field as the other two, but it still doesn't do some of the aspects NEAR as well. 

 

FE4, 5, somewhat 12 if General isn't your secondary class, and FE14:C are all definitely hard. Radiant Dawn also has a degree of difficulty, though not to the same level. 6 can be "challenging" in that your units are largely garbage, so not actually a fair comparison.

 

IDK OG 1/3 or 2. 8 is really easy, and 7 is only sorta difficult if you're new to the series, which is fine. 13 is barely harder than 8, barring Lunatic.

 

However, Awakening and 8 are, partially, so easy due to grinding. Hoshido... even minimal "grinding", aka side chapters, makes it easy. Really, REALLY easy. 

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

You can compare them but lowering one's score more than normal due to not being as good as the other isn't what one should do.

Like, would Birthright have scored higher had you never played Conquest? That's what it seems like, and just doesn't feel right.

 

Never played any before 7 but didn't find 12 hard, and I don't think I used any Generals. I'm not saying they aren't hard I'm saying I don't personally use that as a measurement as the difficulty has never factored in for me.

[Blake]

You can compare them but lowering one's score more than normal due to not being as good as the other isn't what one should do.

Like, would Birthright have scored higher had you never played Conquest? That's what it seems like, and just doesn't feel right.

 

Never played any before 7 but didn't find 12 hard, and I don't think I used any Generals. I'm not saying they aren't hard I'm saying I don't personally use that as a measurement as the difficulty has never factored in for me.

They're all one big game. Sure, they can stand alone, but the three stories require each other to make complete sense, as do the characters. You cannot 100% measure them individually, due to this. Conquest is the closest to independently measurable, but even it has to be factored in, which is why I gave Fates a score, which was the mean of the individual scores. And why is Conquest closest to standalone? Its facets are exceptional.

 

The story isn't perfect, but it's a nice toss up for Fire Emblem, and it goes for a good moral message, and part of the story weakness is the need for all three to be one, which is where it's not totally standalone in this regard. You cannot fully grasp the story and implications without all three stories, so you cannot fully judge it.

 

The characterization is absolutely amazing, in-story and out. Near enough every character is likable, memorable, relatable, or some combination thereof. For playable cast, at least. And this is where more comes in; You get a lot of characterization for the Hoshidan siblings here. Hell, this makes me want to redefine "Characters" into "Characterization" and give a bump to Revelation, if anything, because it DOES add to the characters. Some more than others, sadly, but more than Birthright does. I will say that Birthright further fleshes out your Nohrian siblings, but the playable cast suffers for it.

 

The gameplay is difficult, but not unfair, and it uses gimmicks to encourage strategy. It involves slow rolling and tactical thought, where the other two encourage going faster to clear the map ASAP, especially the later you get into it. Hell, I do have to say that Revelation's idea of "pacing" in lategame battles is... "Oh look we stuck random chests, GET THEM!!!", which is terrible.

 

I gave Birthright credit where it was due. The gameplay IS better than Awakening, due to some switchups and consistent level of difficulty, and it's moreso aimed at newer fans, so I was lenient on it in that regard. That, however, does not defend the fact that it has the worst characterization of the three, by far, which are what it is to be measured against.

 

As I said a long time ago, this is one game. It comes in three parts, totalling 80 dollars. It is designed with 3 stories that all bind together, and that makes them inseperable pieces of the same game. Hell, that's why they're called "Fire Emblem: if/Fates"; Because they are the same game at the core. Mechanics, story, characters... all the same.

 

It is not unfair to rate a part of something, which was released at the same time/near enough the same time as the other two parts, differently based on its portion. It was found wanting in gameplay, VERY wanting in characterization, and the story was mean spirited a fair amount of the time. There was ALSO the chance to lose a playable character in this route, which I forgot, which still rubs me wrong. "You put time into this character, but you didn't fulfill X condition!!!"... And it's a character with support and growth opportunities, as well as a kid, so it's a really dumb move to have him potentially die.

 

I think I would possibly rate Birthright lower, if not for the other two. They salvage its shortcomings to a degree with their characterization, which makes the bland cast seem brighter than it really is, at least in Birthright. Again, this makes me want to change "Characters" to "Characterization", in which case Revelation would be better, but I don't think Revelation is the better "game" overall, mostly due to gameplay that isn't as poor. Gameplay does weigh heavier in my mind than Character(ization), despite my love of a good cast. It's why, despite 8 being my favorite, I wouldn't call it one of the best. A strong cast does not salvage a flawed game on its own, and 8/14:B ARE flawed games.

 

As for difficulty... Your point iiiis? Difficulty is a part of gameplay. You cannot say that it isn't. Maybe you don't value it as highly, but it is a major factor.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I still disagree with the bulk of what that was but there's no point talking about that part anymore cause we just disagree with the general idea.

.

""You put time into this character, but you didn't fulfill X condition!!!"... And it's a character with support and growth opportunities, as well as a kid, so it's a really dumb move to have him potentially die."

I kinda wish they did more stuff like this, I find FE puts too little stock into the character deaths and such given that outside of not resetting not many impact deaths happen. (Of course there's several but not really playable characters which arguably would be more impact emotionally). Not a big thing but I do think it'd be interesting where they could go with this.

"As for difficulty... Your point iiiis? Difficulty is a part of gameplay. You cannot say that it isn't. Maybe you don't value it as highly, but it is a major factor."

 

r00d. :P Anyway the point is just that I don't value it highly so it's not a major factor to me. Stating my opinion.

 

 

In other news. Got most characters, including most children, to S rank with someone. Besides the ones that only pair with Corrin and Ryoma cause dammit Scarlet.

Oh and won't have a pair for Not!Tharja and Not!Cordelia so hoping they support and I can pretend it's secretly a pair.

[Blake]

I still disagree with the bulk of what that was but there's no point talking about that part anymore cause we just disagree with the general idea.

.

""You put time into this character, but you didn't fulfill X condition!!!"... And it's a character with support and growth opportunities, as well as a kid, so it's a really dumb move to have him potentially die."

I kinda wish they did more stuff like this, I find FE puts too little stock into the character deaths and such given that outside of not resetting not many impact deaths happen. (Of course there's several but not really playable characters which arguably would be more impact emotionally). Not a big thing but I do think it'd be interesting where they could go with this.

"As for difficulty... Your point iiiis? Difficulty is a part of gameplay. You cannot say that it isn't. Maybe you don't value it as highly, but it is a major factor."

 

r00d. :P Anyway the point is just that I don't value it highly so it's not a major factor to me. Stating my opinion.

 

 

In other news. Got most characters, including most children, to S rank with someone. Besides the ones that only pair with Corrin and Ryoma cause dammit Scarlet.

Oh and won't have a pair for Not!Tharja and Not!Cordelia so hoping they support and I can pretend it's secretly a pair.

You... want them to punish you for no reason other than "you didn't know X condition"...? That doesn't even make sense. If they were killed off early (Gunter in ch. 3, Orson in Sacred Stones) it's one thing, but when it happens halfway through the game, it's a bit of an issue. It costs you 2 characters, not just 1, and there's no emotional impact for the loss of the second. It's just a kick in the balls for playing it totally blind, and it removes it.

 

The first two examples are a little bit punishing, in that they can eat up valuable EXP the first playthrough, but that's not comparable to someone who was holding items/had a relationship (again, even if married, his child will not be born if you don't meet the condition)/was an integral member of your team.

 

No, I didn't get caught... Because I wondered why his paralogue didn't show and googled it, and now I know. But I would have been furious if I had been. Heartbreak is well and good, and I DID feel that with certain characters in Revelation, but player punishment is not a good thing.

 

Something like Emmeryn, while not playable, does this same idea, but better. Hell, it could be a character that joins you, but then gets the axe quickly. The problem is when they're with you for too long, because it means you wasted a lot of time and effort because... "Story".

 

Difficulty IS a factor. Not in a game like Pokemon, but with a tactical RPG, difficulty is a major factor, just like in a game like Dark Souls. It's not a matter of opinion, it's part of the design. The more difficult yet fair the game is, the more it rewards you for learning the game, as opposed to simply using X strategy every battle. Sure, that part is somewhat opinion, but the base idea isn't opinion based, because the level of challenge is a major part of design in a tactical RPG.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Why? Well as you said, because story. Loss, even if it's a frustrating loss, is part of life, and stories. I can see it if they're your only chance to succeed but not otherwise. I think it's totally an interesting idea to hit the players with surprises like that, as long as it doesn't make the game unplayable.

Though yes taking away the items is a bad decision.

 

The importance of difficulty is an opinion. Otherwise no one ever would enjoy casual normal(easy) mode. You cannot convince me otherwise because...facts. Fact is I don't find difficulty as important as you. And since I don't, clearly that means it's an opinion. Otherwise I would not be able to think it.

[Blake]

Why? Well as you said, because story. Loss, even if it's a frustrating loss, is part of life, and stories. I can see it if they're your only chance to succeed but not otherwise. I think it's totally an interesting idea to hit the players with surprises like that, as long as it doesn't make the game unplayable.

Though yes taking away the items is a bad decision.

 

The importance of difficulty is an opinion. Otherwise no one ever would enjoy casual normal(easy) mode. You cannot convince me otherwise because...facts. Fact is I don't find difficulty as important as you. And since I don't, clearly that means it's an opinion. Otherwise I would not be able to think it.

It makes the game unplayable blind, because X character can suddenly disappear, items and all, and funk your run up. For example, if you lost one of the nobles (namely Ryoma/Xander), you WOULd be i na much worse position, especially Ryoma. And he's one of the characters who would be most impactful.

 

I'm... not saying the importance is 100%?

 

It's a fact that difficulty is part of the gameplay of a tactical RPG or a game like Dark Souls. I'm not saying you have to find it as important as most, but you cannot outright deny its importance, as there is a level to it. I admitted the actual impact varies from person to person, so really not sure what your point is here. Challenge is part of designing with tactics in mind =x

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I'm confused you ask what my point is when

 

Anyway the point is just that I don't value it highly so it's not a major factor to me. Stating my opinion.

I never said that others can't find it important was just expressing I didn't think it was so much.

 

As for making it unplayable. Unless you're just using 2/3 characters then I don't see how it makes it unplayable.

 

I don't know if we're getting anywhere but it's been interesting to see your side of this.
 

[Blake]

And I'm trying to explain to you that, whether it is high or not, there is 100% AN importance to difficulty in a game like FE.

 

Tactical RPGs have difficulty as a core part of design, and, whether it's "casual" or not, such as Birthright v. Conquest, it plays a role. You don't have to value it super highly, it is still a part of the design and gameplay of a tactical RPG.

 

If a character you've had since basically day 1 is killed off around or just past the halfway point, and you lost THAT much EXP to it, you would be pretty mad. That also makes an unusable character (there is an issue with this in Revelation, sorta), which is a complete waste of space. They can help you out early, but you'll bench them ASAP, as not to lose value to them. This is less so an issue in the two entries with such an occurrence (FE8, FE14:B/R), but one of the examples in Revelation DOES have that potential, especially to a newer player. Yes, it is the third game and intended third one you play in a trio with a higher level of play before it, but the chance for it happening still exists, and it could make even Casual mode harder. Not so much Phoenix, which is basically "play the story for story and characters" mode.

 

If there's a condition to save them, that just punishes you for going in blind, which a game shouldn't do. Rewarding you for replaying is one thing, but punishment for blind play is the opposite, and encourages a player to not enjoy a game to the fullest and purest way, for fear of punishment.

 

Also, since I mentioned Phoenix Mode: This is the argument for the game without difficulty, and with the actual gameplay not mattering as much. In which case, Birthright WOULD be the worst, because the characterization is so much worse than the other two. For a modern FE game (minus 11/12), it's the worst characterization overall, outside of Radiant Dawn and maaaaaaybe Binding Blade, but not sure if that's on bad translations or characters actually being boring. And the story, while not as WTF as Revelation, really is mean spirited and "Dark" compared to the other two, which have dark moments, for sure, but don't dwell on them. I'd say Conquest has more dark moments, easily, but  lighter story overall, which is rather odd.

 

Point remains: Phoenix Mode is the game without difficulty. Not saying you can't enjoy Phoenix Mode, but then it's basically a pseudo-Visual Novel with some overall plot attached. And if you want that, fine. But that's not playing "Fire Emblem", that's watching it and toying with the playable units. That's not what the game is designed to be, that's an addition for newer fans who WANT it to be a Visual Novel, not for people looking to play a Tactics RPG, where the difficulty and challenge are important, to some degree.

[Yosuke-kun]

Overall, Fates gets a 6.83~% rating, but the individual games do shine, Conquest most brightly. Rather ironically, at that. It's not a bad installment, and the mechanics are good, but 2/3 are just not very refined in story, characters, or gameplay, so I find them wanting.

This is actually kinda funny to me. For all my complaints about it I gave the series a higher overall score xD To be fair though, I judged them all as one game with branching paths, so I guess they had a higher chance for an 8 that way.

[Blake]

This is actually kinda funny to me. For all my complaints about it I gave the series a higher overall score xD To be fair though, I judged them all as one game with branching paths, so I guess they had a higher chance for an 8 that way.

I did so, too. Well, sorta?

 

I kinda 50/50'd it. I gave them the rights the games themselves gave them as seperate games, but I still understand they're one game, and that's why story/characterization between the titles matters so heavily.

 

I just think Conquest CAN stand as a game on its own. Obviously the story suffers, but the general game holds up, and... I'm just not sure that the other two do so.

[Yosuke-kun]

I did so, too. Well, sorta?

 

I kinda 50/50'd it. I gave them the rights the games themselves gave them as seperate games, but I still understand they're one game, and that's why story/characterization between the titles matters so heavily.

 

I just think Conquest CAN stand as a game on its own. Obviously the story suffers, but the general game holds up, and... I'm just not sure that the other two do so.

Yeah I get that. I don't know if it was ever made clear, but I have no qualms with how the story and characterization is done and I think all three paths handled them pretty well in their own ways (with the exception of how the children were treated, because in most cases it was just poor) it's with how the mechanics are and how it has so many "shades of Awakening".

 

I was also wondering if I should even bother to post my review when I finish xD I'm still stuck on how to judge the multiplayer in it. It's honestly really good, and lacks a lot of the balancing issues that the regular game has, but it seems much more heavily rng focus. So I'm having trouble figuring that out.

[Blake]

The multiplayer will be 100% funked in... 2-3 weeks? Once the Witch class becomes internationally available. So account for that. So I'd set it aside or make it a bonus.

[Yosuke-kun]

The multiplayer will be 100% f***ed in... 2-3 weeks? Once the Witch class becomes internationally available. So account for that. So I'd set it aside or make it a bonus.

I already factored it in actually. I mean it hasn't even come out yet and I've seen some pretty funked builds. Hell the one I'm using for Ryoma and my main are both pretty funked.

[Raine]

[Astro Dude]

Ah Spongebob Reference...

 

Anyway, is Galeforce still Galeforce if so which unit's have it and which units kids can benefit from it?

[Blake]

Ah Spongebob Reference...

 

Anyway, is Galeforce still Galeforce if so which unit's have it and which units kids can benefit from it?

It's DLC/Path Bonus only.

 

Cannot be passed to kids, but any unit can access the class.

 

It is still galeforce, but it cannot be used after a battle in either attack OR guard stance.

[Yosuke-kun]

Anyway, is Galeforce still Galeforce if so which unit's have it and which units kids can benefit from it?

 

It's DLC/Path Bonus only.

 

Cannot be passed to kids, but any unit can access the class.

 

It is still galeforce, but it cannot be used after a battle in either attack OR guard stance.

This, but just to add, it's not really worth it. It's okay, but it's been nerfed quite a bit from Awakening simply because of how the support combat works in this one.