FE: Fates

[Raine]

 

^That's it, you're caught up on the beginning of Conquest

[~British Soul~]

I'm somewhat annoyed I have to wait till next month to buy the game, but hey I can cope, gives me time to do another playthrough of Awakening.

So this is now a moot post, as I found out that Fates isn't even out in Europe yet, heck we don't have a confirmed release date.

To be fair, I thought we had the same release as NA, turns out it wasn't the case.

[Yosuke-kun]

This is actually very true. Before Chapter 23~, no chapter in Birthright is difficult i nthe least. Maybe it's better on Lunatic...?

 

I tried Lunatic mode first, but didn't get too far. Mostly because I have notoriously bad luck as far as rng goes and from what I could tell up to chapter 6 the game was basically just a don't get hit simulation. Pretty much every enemy that attacked would OHK my characters unless they dodged. Didn't help that the map was flooded with enemies. It's honestly wouldn't be a bad thing if I wasn't being killed on site each turn. I'm planning to try it again, but went to hard so I could play the game without raging first.

 

Alsoooo

 

As far as Conquest goes, I have no idea where you're coming from.

Well it's mostly opinionated. It's not really that anything is wrong with the story, it's more the mechanics. Just kinda feels like they made a lot of weird gameplay decisions based on wanting to make a new FE game but not wanting to be too different from Awakening. It's obviously more prominent in Birthright, but the same flaws still exist in both. I can see why other people might like it, but I just feel like it's one of the lesser entries. 

 

 

 

FE6 and FE:A were oth far, far worse games. Conquest is easily comparable to (international) Radiant Dawn and Geneaology in gameplay, and the story is easily one of the strongest in the series. I can't gauge it 100% as you're meant to put all three together to get all the info, but yeah.

 

That's exactly one of the issues I have with it. Awakening was one of the weaker entries in the series, so why would you try to stay similar to one of the lesser FE games? You already got the fans on board with Awakening, so now you just need to show them why they should stay.

 

I wanna respond to the other comments too, but cannot figure out how to quote them properly either. So out of laziness I'll just come back when I get that sorted xD

[Blake]

There's really not that many flaws. The only thing I have an issue with is that Pairing Up isn't refined. It has a lot of good core ideas, but it's a little clunkier than it should be. Everything else is fairly simple.

 

You said it was the weakest in the series. Not one of the weakest. Big difference there.

 

Awakening is the FE that won them fans. Regardless of the cult following that's been loyal to them for ages, they're not going to cater to them. They're going to cater to the new crowd. I had terribly low hopes going in on the basis of this, and it managed to be subverted.

 

And really, Awakening is only technically one of the weaker games. The issue is that it's easy, barring Apotheosis which is a grindfest to prep for, and the story is meh.

 

In terms of overall quality ameplay, the general concensus is somewhere around (chronological order):

 

Top Tier

4 - Geneaology of the Holy War

14 - Fates: Conquest

 

Mid-High

10 - Radant Dawn (international only)

12 - New Mystery of the Emblem

 

Mid Tier

7 - Blazing Blade

14 - Fates: Birthright.

 

Mid-Low Tier

8 - Sacred Stones

13 - Awakening

 

Low Tier

1 - Shadow Dragon and the Blade of Light

3 - Mystery of the Emblem

6 - Binding Blade

 

sheet Tier

10 - Radiant Dawn (Japan only)

11 - Shadow Dragon

 

???? Tier

2 - Gaiden

5 - Thracia 776

14 - Fates: Revelation

 

2/5 are oddities in the franchise, seriously. 5 is generally regarded highly, but it's so different from the others that it feels wrong to include it. And Gaiden is somewhere between JRPG and tactics.

 

Revelation is said to be bad, but western audiences haven't weighed in as much yet.

 

RD international is slightly above New Mystery, but they're the same basic area.

 

Birthright is somewhere between Mid and Mid Low, but that can't be classified without giving it its own slot.

 

And this list isn't to say they don't add good things. Sacred Stones added something VERY good to the franchise. But it's one of the easiest FEs, even without endless grinding.

 

Conquest also delivers in the plot and character departments, though Birthright lags behind slightly. Moreso in the former, in my opinion, as it ironically feels darker than Conquest's story.

 

While Birthright may fall under Awakening with an otaku twist (which it kinda is, just slightly more refined, and some the final chapters are kinda tough... well, Camilla is, and the others can be cheesed), Conquest is both classic and modern emblem put together. Yes, Awakening shines through to keep the masses attracted ,but it wasn't afraid to stand up and be its own thing. It rewards you for thinking through your moves and valuing resources, and it's everything the best games in the series wanted to be.

 

It takes you back to Geneaology, somewhat, because the combat is refined for its time, while also giving you something different to chew on. Geneaology had huge ass maps/campaigns, and this has the castle. Geneaology had some other curveballs too, like Children REPLACING the cast and skills, and that's probably why it will remain #1, but Conquest is a good second place in gameplay.

 

And to step aside and sing the praises of Japan Awakening a little bit... It's a step up from Awakening. While I feel the characters aren't as interesting on the whole, it encourages newer players to step up from Awakening without shoving them into something they don't know at all. And it encourages thinking outside the box and in, unlike Awakening. The only issues I really draw with it, given the target audience is that it isn't very Fire Emblem-y. Conquest takes Fire Emblem and does it its own way. Birthright... It feels off. The setting is a big part of that, as the oriental aesthetic and characters are almost out of place, and the story is actually fairly meanspirited next to Conquest. It's made out as the Light to Conquest's Dark, but... I saw it the other way around. Kinda Yin/Yang.

 

In Conquest, you're the light in the darkness. In Birthright, you're the darkness in the light. I suppose this makes sense, as you're the link between the two nations, but... It feels really odd to have the "Light" kingdom have the harsher methods and story.

 

Overall though, it's not bad, just not quite what Conquest managed to be. Now to wait for Revelation.

 

Like I said, I went in with low expectations. I'm just glad they aren't the sheet they seemed to be shilling, and are in fact good games.

[Raine]

So this is now a moot post, as I found out that Fates isn't even out in Europe yet, heck we don't have a confirmed release date.

To be fair, I thought we had the same release as NA, turns out it wasn't the case.

 

FE Fates isn't out in Europe!?

 

[~British Soul~]

FE Fates isn't out in Europe!?

 

*I bet the Nohrians did this.jpg*

To be fair, Awakening came out a couple of months later than it did in NA as well, so I shouldn't have been too surprised.

Oh well, got like 2 months to wait, since the release date was revealed in the European version of the Direct on Thursday.

[Yosuke-kun]

Like I said, I went in with low expectations. I'm just glad they aren't the s*** they seemed to be shilling, and are in fact good games.

I guess that's really my main issue here. I went in with much higher expectations and was severely let down when they didn't come as close. Certain mechanics didn't seem as well thought out as I hoped and a lot of the other aspects were just weird. 

 

The kids I remain firm on though. They didn't really belong in this game and that was pretty apparent. If they took a more Genealogy method with them and had the children replace the cast after a time jump, or just age the characters and then have the kids join up then it'd be much better.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Weighing in to say I had high hopes and it hasn't failed me yet. Despite playing the, apparently, not as good version.

The kid thing is pretty meh, and I hope they do it better/don't do it, next time. But I kinda found the whole alternate dimension theme fun.

[Blake]

yeah, no one will debate that the kids were bad or shoehorned in

 

they just did it to appease to newer fansm which is understandable, jsut should have been better executed.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

How I felt about it was.

When it first happened, I was staring at the screen like "Wait really that's how it's gonna be?" Then I met Kanna the most adorable creature ever and I'm like "Ya know what fine I'll roll with it."

[Yosuke-kun]

Then I met Kanna the most adorable creature ever and I'm like "Ya know what fine I'll roll with it."

I actually liked Morgan a lot more, which is weird for me because usually the amnesiac gimmick isn't something I like. Morgan was just really well developed in my opinion, and it kinda felt like Kana was just generic child character that was stapled in for the cuteness factor. Though Morgan was easily one of my favorite characters in Awakening, so I admit to being a bit biased.

 

yeah, no one will debate that the kids were bad or shoehorned in

 

they just did it to appease to newer fansm which is understandable, jsut should have been better executed.

Yeah pretty much. I don't mind if they keep the children joining in trope, just as long as they move away from the Dragonball Z references with it and make the kids.... more interesting. I think the kids were fine in Awakening, but the whole time travel method and alternate dimension abuse needs to stop because it feels like (to me at least) they're starting to use it as an excuse to be lazy with characters. They can keep that stuff in, just don't use it as a magic ace to explain anything they can't explain or reuse character designs.

[Jake the Sage]

I've only managed to get Kanna, so far. I'm taking this Fire Emblem game a little bit slower than I usually would. In my opinion, Kanna isn't that developed of a character. At least not as much as Morgan is / was. I haven't gotten any of the other children characters so I don't know anything about their personalities, or fighting prowess.

[Blake]

I don't particularly love either, but Morgan was really flat. The most development I saw him/her get was her support with Panne, where she sadistically tortured him i nthe name of science. And fluffy.

 

Kana's more popular than I'd expect, as well, but I do enjoy their innocence more.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I mean, think about it guys. Kana is a child who actually grew up in a safe place and has knowledge of what's going on in the world. Of course Morgan seems more "developed" to people.

You don't need complicated things to make a character a good one. The character from what I've seen makes a lot of sense given circumstances.

Nothing wrong with a kid being...a kid.

[Yosuke-kun]

Well there's really nothing wrong with having a child character, but that's really all that Kana is. Outside of being a kid, there's nothing else about her. I mean, Kiragi is a kid too and he had that thing about hunting at least, but Kana's personality can be summed up in the word "child" which isn't good because kids are really annoying.

[Blake]

Well there's really nothing wrong with having a child character, but that's really all that Kana is. Outside of being a kid, there's nothing else about her. I mean, Kiragi is a kid too and he had that thing about hunting at least, but Kana's personality can be summed up in the word "child" which isn't good because kids are really annoying.

YOU think kids are annoying. Most people do not. That's not really a fair statement, considering that's you saying "X is a bad character because he's a kid." There's a line between disliking a character trope and saying it's bad.

 

Kana can't really be summed up with the word "child", either. They can be summed up with "innocent". They ARE childlike, but they do their best to grow up and be helpful at the same time. Having a "quirk" like hunting is, if anything, a reason the character ISN'T as good, because it then leads into needing something quirky to make them stand out.

 

Now, I did like what I saw of Kiragi, but your point about him is incredibly weak.

 

Again, Kana is someone I see as overrated, but their supports clearly line out an adorable character. The supports with their father (IDK if it's the same for Avatar father) are about competing to try and make the mother/wife happier, and about the parents' pain of watching Kana grow up, noting that the (Female, again idk male) sighs and tells Kana "good job" instead of thanking him for doing said good job, and tries to tell him to go play. Kana is used, albeit from a distance, to grow while showing the pain a parent feels as their child grows, despite their pride in doing so. That's very solid writing, and a clever way of doing it without having to use the support WITH the Avatar, but without taking away from anyone else.

 

Kana is innocence, but also the spirit and drive of a child to grow up, not to just be a whimsical kid. There are whimsical versions (like with Selkie), but there are also conversations ABOUT that growth.

 

Meanwhile, Morgan, comparatively, had very little character. Amnesiac + Copy Mom/Dad was about it, and even then, they were fairly lackluster in that department. Where the other kids had clear psychological issues, the only things we see from Morgan are amnesia (not psychological) and sadistic tendencies... with normally good/playful intentions. That's the depths of the character.

 

I really do think you're being far too hard on Fates because you let the hype get to you, which is a perfectly normal reaction, but try to step back and see things from a more objective position.

[Blake]

As I'm starting the third route, I do have an issue that's relevant to all of them.

 

Females are, once again, the superior class. If you have DLC, that is, otherwise /1/ male per run has an edge. 1. Because of the Hero's Brand, from the free DLC. Otherwise, units are fairly equal.

 

So, what about DLC makes females superior? The Witch class, namely its level 25 (Promotion + 5 equivalent) skill, Warp. What does it do?

 

Select the “Warp” command to instantly move adjacent to an ally and perform another action.

 

You choose which ally to Warp to, meaning it makes any other unit have a built-in Rescue Staff for units with this skill. And the item to become a witch is unlimited.

 

That DLC comes out in just over a month (and 1-per-run in slightly less), but it changes the balance of male/female completely, as Vanguard, Lodestar, and Ballistician do not compare.

 

Even without DLC, though, Female Avatar is better. Why is this?

 

Because you start with Jakob. While it's personal preference that Felicia is a much better character, he joins you earlier as a female, meaning you get access to his child sooner. This really makes Felicia seem worse in comparison, and this doesn't even cover stats yet.

[The Amazing Avian]

From what I was told Jakob is literally Seth when changed to pally. I haven't tried it myself though.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I'm not sure if balance matters in Fire Emblem. I guess there's technically an online aspect to this but...idk. That's probably just my casual playstyle of not optimizing, so never mind really. Guess it's a positive for me if that's one of the major issues. ^^

[Blake]

Galeforce is reason that balance matters.

 

Granted, I was talking about balance between genders. Playing as a male avatar doesn't have the same level fo advantages that a female has... Hell, it has even fewer than Awakening. I forgot to mention this, but the only way you can have 2 kids as a male is to marry Azura. Female has more, possibly better, options.

[The Amazing Avian]

Ryoma y u so broke?

[Astro Dude]

I'm looking forward to Revelations. Just revelations.

[Yosuke-kun]

As I'm starting the third route, I do have an issue that's relevant to all of them.

 

Females are, once again, the superior class. If you have DLC, that is, otherwise /1/ male per run has an edge. 1. Because of the Hero's Brand, from the free DLC. Otherwise, units are fairly equal.

 

So, what about DLC makes females superior? The Witch class, namely its level 25 (Promotion + 5 equivalent) skill, Warp. What does it do?

 

Select the “Warp” command to instantly move adjacent to an ally and perform another action.

 

You choose which ally to Warp to, meaning it makes any other unit have a built-in Rescue Staff for units with this skill. And the item to become a witch is unlimited.

 

That DLC comes out in just over a month (and 1-per-run in slightly less), but it changes the balance of male/female completely, as Vanguard, Lodestar, and Ballistician do not compare.

 

Even without DLC, though, Female Avatar is better. Why is this?

 

Because you start with Jakob. While it's personal preference that Felicia is a much better character, he joins you earlier as a female, meaning you get access to his child sooner. This really makes Felicia seem worse in comparison, and this doesn't even cover stats yet.

Well to be completely honest most of the DLC in Fire Emblem just completely destroy the game anyways. Just looking through the castle lists you can easily tell which players bought the dlc's and which didn't. Not to mention my brother is currently coasting through Lunatic mode in Conquest because he just spammed the DLC's repeatedly. It was kinda like this in Awakening too, but not to the purely ridiculous extent that it is in Fates. 

 

Also, the game is just unbalanced in terms males and females. In both games, I found myself unable to get one of the children simply because I paired myself with the wrong character and was a dude. That aspect just felt as if the game was designed around the player being a female. 

Honestly, there is a reason why I maintain my view of Fates being mechanically flawed.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if balance matters in Fire Emblem. I guess there's technically an online aspect to this but...idk. That's probably just my casual playstyle of not optimizing, so never mind really. Guess it's a positive for me if that's one of the major issues. ^^

It kinda just depends on how you want to get through the game for the most part, but I can tell you first hand that power balance doesn't seem to exist in the My Castle battles when it comes to dlc vs no dlc. You do not know the mean of "Oh hell no" till you see someone with an entire army of lvl 50+ soldiers xD

 

Kana can't really be summed up with the word "child", either. They can be summed up with "innocent". They ARE childlike, but they do their best to grow up and be helpful at the same time. Having a "quirk" like hunting is, if anything, a reason the character ISN'T as good, because it then leads into needing something quirky to make them stand out.

 

Again, Kana is someone I see as overrated, but their supports clearly line out an adorable character. The supports with their father (IDK if it's the same for Avatar father) are about competing to try and make the mother/wife happier, and about the parents' pain of watching Kana grow up, noting that the (Female, again idk male) sighs and tells Kana "good job" instead of thanking him for doing said good job, and tries to tell him to go play. Kana is used, albeit from a distance, to grow while showing the pain a parent feels as their child grows, despite their pride in doing so. That's very solid writing, and a clever way of doing it without having to use the support WITH the Avatar, but without taking away from anyone else.

 

Kana is innocence, but also the spirit and drive of a child to grow up, not to just be a whimsical kid. There are whimsical versions (like with Selkie), but there are also conversations ABOUT that growth.

 

Meanwhile, Morgan, comparatively, had very little character. Amnesiac + Copy Mom/Dad was about it, and even then, they were fairly lackluster in that department. Where the other kids had clear psychological issues, the only things we see from Morgan are amnesia (not psychological) and sadistic tendencies... with normally good/playful intentions. That's the depths of the character.

Maybe I'm being to critical, but that's honestly not the impression I got from that. To me, she just seemed like an annoying child with the occasional "D'aawwww" moment here and there. Mind you, child characters aren't inherently bad (in my opinion) I just see them as something of a red flag because they're so difficult to do well. Kana felt like she fell under the category of "Close to being good" but wasn't really much more than a little kid who was having trouble growing up in the end. I mentioned Kiragi too because well... I think he's the only character that's around Kana's age other than Midori (who I thought was okay to be honest) but honestly the best child in my opinion was Shiro. Mostly because the way Shiro reacts to everything seems believable and realistic. That and Shiro kinda reminded me of myself a little.

 

As for Morgan, I felt like she had more than just that. It seemed like she went out of her way to help people just as often as she would be sadistic towards them. I mean in her supports with Noire she'd encourage her to let her feelings out when she could, and with Gerome she tries to help him to open up more. That didn't really seem that sadistic to me. Although I gotta admit, I probably am giving Morgan more credit than she deserves simply due to the amount of one-liners she had like "Go on! Do it! Smack your amnesiac sister right over the head!"

[Blake]

Well to be completely honest most of the DLC in Fire Emblem just completely destroy the game anyways. Just looking through the castle lists you can easily tell which players bought the dlc's and which didn't. Not to mention my brother is currently coasting through Lunatic mode in Conquest because he just spammed the DLC's repeatedly. It was kinda like this in Awakening too, but not to the purely ridiculous extent that it is in Fates. 

 

Also, the game is just unbalanced in terms males and females. In both games, I found myself unable to get one of the children simply because I paired myself with the wrong character and was a dude. That aspect just felt as if the game was designed around the player being a female. 

Honestly, there is a reason why I maintain my view of Fates being mechanically flawed.

Are you kidding? The grinding DLC is a lot harder to use this time around, so it takes a lot more dedication and effort to wreck the game, and the EXP DLC can quickly get away from you if you aren't spending hours grinding between each chapter. Furthermore, while DLC skills can be quite strong, Warp is far beyond anything other than unnerfed Gale Force, which it's probably on par with if not a slight bit better. While it does "Destroy the game" somewhat, it's no more than Awakening, because the ease of which you could grind + farm gold + get weapons from streetpass/outrealm teams was absurd, and fates is not nearly as broken a game.

 

Honestly, you haven't proven a thing. Everything you try to maintain falls flat, especially given that the characters who can't have kids are very clearly marked in the support menu, because they can't support anyone but MC/certain related character. If you missed the clear indication to not use X character over Y character, that's entirely on you. Say'Ri, Flavia, Basilio, Shura, Reina, etc. are all very clear.

 

Maybe I'm being to critical, but that's honestly not the impression I got from that. To me, she just seemed like an annoying child with the occasional "D'aawwww" moment here and there. Mind you, child characters aren't inherently bad (in my opinion) I just see them as something of a red flag because they're so difficult to do well. Kana felt like she fell under the category of "Close to being good" but wasn't really much more than a little kid who was having trouble growing up in the end. I mentioned Kiragi too because well... I think he's the only character that's around Kana's age other than Midori (who I thought was okay to be honest) but honestly the best child in my opinion was Shiro. Mostly because the way Shiro reacts to everything seems believable and realistic. That and Shiro kinda reminded me of myself a little.

 

As for Morgan, I felt like she had more than just that. It seemed like she went out of her way to help people just as often as she would be sadistic towards them. I mean in her supports with Noire she'd encourage her to let her feelings out when she could, and with Gerome she tries to help him to open up more. That didn't really seem that sadistic to me. Although I gotta admit, I probably am giving Morgan more credit than she deserves simply due to the amount of one-liners she had like "Go on! Do it! Smack your amnesiac sister right over the head!"

Again, you are in the vast minority. Kana isn't my favorite child by any means, but Kana IS well done. The only real issue I've had thus far is Kana/Sophie S Rank, but that's on Sophie.

 

And you really seem to be basing Kana on a single run of conversations, but that doesn't work. That's not the full character. Kana doesn't have trouble growing up, Kana actively tries to embrace it so that they can be a bigger help to everyone. They patrol with their sibling (if any), they compete with their father, they spend time with their mother, and Kana is supposed to be innocence that is growing too quickly. It's not trouble with growing up, it's that the characters that love him/her have to watch this innocent child try so hard to be an adult. And that's not even considering other supports, such as with Selkie, which is just the story of a fox and a dragon becoming BFFs then falling in love, which is honestly just really sweet and fun to watch. It's like Odin or Ophelia, but not as hammy.

 

Honestly, the Hoshidan characters on the whole are just less interesting. Oboro, Rinkah (rip garbage tier parent), Subaki, and Hayato are the only ones that really stand out outside of the children, but even the children pale next to their Nohrian counterparts, except for, like, Selkie. I never met Mitama or Hisame, but the fact that their parents are so boring speaks to how little reason you're given to meet them and enjoy them.

 

I didn't get every child in my first playthrough of Conquest, but that was due to not caring about meeting them all the first time as I played through. I met Ignatius and Soleil during the second run, and they did not disappoint.

 

I will say that Shiro's solid, but I feel like Siegbert just does it better. Hell, many of the hoshidan dads are just fuckign bastards, at least the Nohrian side shows better.

 

Anyway, I never said Morgan didn't have sweet moments. MorganxNoire is really good. But he never DEVELOPS. Morgan is a static character with one-liners, only showing a real extra side to themself when being a sadist with Yarne. The kids all develop, but Morgan was just flat as hell.

 

Nevermind that Kana is goes out of their way to help people as often as possible, as well. So not sure why you brought that up.

[King K. Azo]

Okay, so I just spent the last two days with no sleep playing Birthright, still not done yet, but made it into the 20s. Grinding S-ranks, man.I picked it first since Awakening was my first FE game, I figured it was better if i eased myself in instead of diving balls deep into Conquest. And god, I'm glad I did. I thought it would be super easy. Nah, it's not stupid hard, but harder than Awakening.

I mean, heck, in the first few chapters, I expected to just steamroll it like I did with Awakening. Nope. I died, and I actually had to sit down and do some strategic thinking. I'm glad I did, because it was honestly a lot of fun!

I dunno, I feel like the characters in Birthright are... weaker than in Awakening. Maybe I'm just too attached to the Awakening crew. Still... that one child that looked like my Awakening waifu... makes me wonder if Fates is a prequel or a sequel.

I bought Conquest, but I'm saving it until I beat Birthright. Here's hoping I can win!