Black Hole Dragon

[Dragulas]

First card i ever posted upgraded

 

 

[spoiler=Lore]

1 Tuner + 1 or more non-Tuner monsters

During either player's turn, when a card or effect is activated that targets a card(s) on the field: You can banish this card; negate the activation, and if you do, you can destroy 1 card on the field. You can only use this effect of "Black Hole Dragon" once per turn. During the End Phase, if this effect was activated this turn (and was not negated): You can Special Summon this banished card.

 

 

[Dova]

To be honest, I wish this more generic. I feel the effect is balanced with Stardust Dragon, and doesn't need to be limited to a DARK Tuner. Otherwise, I like the card as a whole, and I feel you did a good job at making a not-stardust-dragon.

[Dragulas]

I dont mind to make it generic, in fact i put the DARK tuner requirement just because it seems like a corrupted version of stardust.

 

Apart from that and the hard OPT clause its better than stardust (in its own negation field) in all ways, you can destroy any card after the negation (without targeting) not just the one you negate, also after the first negation it will become a 3K beatstick so the dark tuner was in a way the only thing i could think of to balance it.

[Trebuchet MS]

What happens if you don't include the ATK buff after this card returns to the field?

[Dragulas]

What happens if you don't include the ATK buff after this card returns to the field?

I dont understand what you mean

[Guest BGMCANN0N]

What happens if you don't include the ATK buff after this card returns to the field?

 

I dont understand what you mean

 

What he means is that it is pointless to include the wording ",and if you do," (towards the end) if the card is being Special Summoned from being banished anyhow. I mean think about it, the options you are given is to not have this guy on the field and have him remain banished for almost no reason, or to have this guy be Special Summoned and gain 500 ATK. Rather the wording there could be simplified to prevent unnecessary confusion:

 

During the End Phase, if this effect was activated this turn (and was not negated): You can Special Summon this banished card, and if you do, ; this card gains 500 ATK.

 

Now for my evaluation of the card: I think it is a pretty nifty utility Synchro as you could use your cards as well to target a card, and trigger Black Hole Dragon to dodge and pop, and on top of that make him bigger, and more fearsome. So he can potentially be a little too control-oriented, but then again so is Stardust Dragon to an extent. He has more utility purposes than Stardust, which would definitely make me want to use him even if he did had the Dark-Tuner requirement.

[Dragulas]

I dont see how the "and if you do" part is pointless or confusing, its a simultaneous effect that applies if it comes back.

The way you worded makes him to SS itself at activation (like a cost because of ";"), and goes against game mechanics

[Kanashimi]

Nani nani? Something i can help?

 

What happens if you don't include the ATK buff after this card returns to the field?

You cant, its a PSCT with " . . . and if you do . . ." text, happens simultaneously, so if you do the SS, so the ATK gain, if you dont do the SS, so the ATK gain too.

 

[spoiler=i cant believe i wrote this'']

Its like a one-sided love between couple, a boy (Special Summon) and a girl (ATK gain)

> If the boy lives, so does the girl

> If the boy dies (got negated), the girl commit suicide and dies too (she loves him from the bottom of her heart! a pure love!!!)

> If the girl dies (the ATK gain doesn't happen or negated), the boys still can live and find another girl (the special summon can still happening, cause he's one hell of a jerk)

 

 

 

 

What he means is that it is pointless to include the wording ",and if you do," (towards the end) if the card is being Special Summoned from being banished anyhow. I mean think about it, the options you are given is to not have this guy on the field and have him remain banished for almost no reason, or to have this guy be Special Summoned and gain 500 ATK. Rather the wording there could be simplified to prevent unnecessary confusion:

 

During the End Phase, if this effect was activated this turn (and was not negated): You can Special Summon this banished card, and if you do, ; this card gains 500 ATK.

 

Now for my evaluation of the card: I think it is a pretty nifty utility Synchro as you could use your cards as well to target a card, and trigger Black Hole Dragon to dodge and pop, and on top of that make him bigger, and more fearsome. So he can potentially be a little too control-oriented, but then again so is Stardust Dragon to an extent. He has more utility purposes than Stardust, which would definitely make me want to use him even if he did had the Dark-Tuner requirement.

It's not pointless, sometimes simplify wording of a text makes the text as a whole becomes unclear or ended up having different effect and interaction from the initial wording. As for me, the wording is good and fine imo, no need any change. Removing "and if you do" makes the the ATK gain unclear, as when it gains the ATK? that's why "and if you do" text be put there, simultaneously with the SS. Also why the SS is optional? then the same question can be asked: Why Stardust SS eff also optional? the answer lies there.

 

I dont see how the "and if you do" part is pointless or confusing, its a simultaneous effect that applies if it comes back.
The way you worded makes him to SS itself at activation (like a cost because of ";"), and goes against game mechanics

It's not goes against game mechanics, its just the text becomes weird as its unclear of when the ATK gains will happen.

 

anyway 'bout the card:

It's basically Jizukiru and Stardust becomes one, but a better version of Jizukiru in effects, since Jizukiru only hit single target eff, while this card, aside from hitting single target, also hit the multi-target eff. Its like counterpart to Stardust or atleast have some connection to it, since the stats match the Stardust also the artwork a bit similar to Stardust too, but its a DARK so yea . . .

 

Another SS target for Ultimaya, also the eff if used in a non-continuous targeting card, at least it can make your opponent go -2 (wasting eff of 1 card, got pop*d 1 other card), but looking at the gamespeed right now, the card is fine, with that a bit low stats (Stardust like).

 

And what again . . . . oh i'm tired today, lemme rest a bit, or maybe sleep (  ु⁎ᴗ_ᴗ⁎)ु.｡oO

[Trebuchet MS]

It appears I'm being misunderstood.

 

What I'm asking is that, what if you remove the ATK buff in the latter effect to make it a direct mirror to Stardust? Will that change result in the card being generic be completely acceptable?

[Dragulas]

It appears I'm being misunderstood.

 

What I'm asking is that, what if you remove the ATK buff in the latter effect to make it a direct mirror to Stardust? Will that change result in the card being generic be completely acceptable?

If that what it takes to make it generic i dont mind at all, i ll change it later. But being a direct mirror of stardust is not enought for a synchro anymore i think.

The boost was simply to overcome 1 of the original stardust weakness (its low stats for a lvl 8 synchro).

[Darj]

Personally, I'm more concerned about the non-targeting destruction effect that comes after the negation effect, than the ATK boost effect. I wouldn't venture into turning this a generic Level 8 Synchro Monster because of the former effect.

If it didn't have that additional destruction effect, it would be fine for me as a generic, even with the ATK boost.

[Dragulas]

Effect updated: removed the boost but its now generic, also made the destruction effect more versatile; now you can destroy any card on the field and is optional so cards like stardust cant respond (wich is OP, im aware). I still say that a direct mirror of stardust is not enough anymore, thats why i buff the negation part.

 

Though black hole would be a pain to deal with (even without the boost), non targeting effects are more common nowdays, any trap hole card (except treacherous) will get rid of it.

[Darj]

I disagree: Stardust Dragon is still good enough in my opinion. That it was "outpowercreeped" (so to speak) is a different matter, though. The additional destruction effect feels like an overkill to me, and even more now that you improved it. Also, non-targeting removal being more common or relevant doesn't make this card any more fair; it's like the "card is overpowered, but X counters exist (Solemn Warning, etc.), so it's fine" argument all over again.