Naturia Beast

[goodfusion]

But Effect Veiler says "Until the end of this turn" not "Until the End Phase". Doesn't that mean it negates for the rest of the turn and only stops negating the monster's effect when the turn actually ends (not in the End Phase)?

 

OT: Recently got my hands on one of these which I am pleased with. Psychics summon it really easily with Jumper + Cleric/Witch or Bulb + Wizard. The card is certainly incredibly powerful, however, due to its average stats and lack of protection (other than its own effect) I find it only works really well against a few things such as Pendulums and those few decks that rely heavily on Spells for support. However it is still a good turn 1 card generally, as it is basically a really easily summonable floodgate.

[Kaiji]

But Effect Veiler says "Until the end of this turn" not "Until the End Phase". Doesn't that mean it negates for the rest of the turn and only stops negating the monster's effect when the turn actually ends (not in the End Phase)?

 

OT: Recently got my hands on one of these which I am pleased with. Psychics summon it really easily with Jumper + Cleric/Witch or Bulb + Wizard. The card is certainly incredibly powerful, however, due to its average stats and lack of protection (other than its own effect) I find it only works really well against a few things such as Pendulums and those few decks that rely heavily on Spells for support. However it is still a good turn 1 card generally, as it is basically a really easily summonable floodgate.

Ah then you should be correct (y)

[mitchermitcher]

I love this card although I can understand why it could be kind of broken. A level 5 synchro ain't too hard(although not too easy, especially with the type restriction) to get out and with some battle protection he's quite literally a beast. Getting this guy and that R6 effect negator monster out was a fun past time for me since it gets people to quit often.

 

I'm sure in the current state of the game Beast is powerful as sheet cuz of Pendulums and all and I don't know if that's enough to warrant a ban, but I do like that this sort of effect is about as accessible as Beast currently is. The cost is really not taxing enough and that's probably why people hate the card and if that gets errata'd I'd be fine with it. Like maybe the top card of your extra deck instead or some sheet. Also making the spell negation not a choice would be nice.

[Lizardonx]

The problem lies with king of the feral imps and the clown engine make it entirely splashable.

 

You don't hear anyone complain about winda even though she's equally devastating against the right decks as naturia is to pendulums because she's limited to shaddolls.

[The Nyx Avatar]

The problem lies with king of the feral imps and the clown engine make it entirely splashable.

 

You don't hear anyone complain about winda even though she's equally devastating against the right decks as naturia is to pendulums because she's limited to shaddolls.

What does King of Feral Imps have anything to do with this card? The cards that are added often are Kagetokage (or at least used to) and Jigobyte.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

What does King of Feral Imps have anything to do with this card? The cards that are added often are Kagetokage (or at least used to) and Jigobyte.

It searches the tuner

[The Nyx Avatar]

It searches the tuner

Which? Glow-Up Bulb?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Which? Glow-Up Bulb?

 

IKR >_> giving up your crobat normal summon for this trash

 

You could be bad like me and play snake rain to send this + sinister to the grave to fuel s*** like Twin Twister :3

[The Nyx Avatar]

 

IKR >_> giving up your crobat normal summon for this trash

Agreed. Who'd waste time and resources for this pay-off?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Agreed. Who'd waste time and resources for this pay-off?

Everyone who just took a swing at me for daring to say Nat Beast doesn't deserve a ban

 

Beast is a bigger problem OCG side due to Chain + Bulb, but OCG has quite a few more outs for Beast (including the still popular 3 Compuls) so it evens out 

[The Nyx Avatar]

Everyone who just took a swing at me for daring to say Nat Beast doesn't deserve a ban

How pitiful.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

How pitiful.

*shrugs*

 

Well they have a point, it's a dumb card, just not dumb enough to warrant a ban

[King K. Azo]

I NEED this for my SuperHeavies (dammit, when I thought I was out, I was pulled back in!!)

 

I can see why it would be insane in meta decks though.

[The Nyx Avatar]

*shrugs*

 

Well they have a point, it's a dumb card, just not dumb enough to warrant a ban

Not you; the people who use that Tuner. It's also a waste of a Normal Summon. Besides, Spell Cards aren't the only cards used.

[Blake]

I tried to stay away, but the ill-informed circle jerk is just too much. If you're going to discuss something or make points, add to the topic at hand. If you're ignorant of the gamestate, simply put, shut the funk up. This may not be the best place for competitive YGO, but we don't need salt or ignorance here, not to mention 2-5 word spam posts that add genuinely nothing to the discussion.

 

The problem lies with king of the feral imps and the clown engine make it entirely splashable.

 

You don't hear anyone complain about winda even though she's equally devastating against the right decks as naturia is to pendulums because she's limited to shaddolls.

Uh, are you serious?

 

First off, Winda was an extreme example of powercreep on release, and people HATED her. She got limited OCG side, though IDK if she's still there. Furthermore, she requires running an Engine and, as you said, is tied to an archetype. She doesn't entirely shut out the game, though she is strong, and it's not a fair comparison to make.

 

It has nothing to do with Clowns. Performapal, themselves, can get access to it just fine, and it's not a matter of splashable. It's a matter of how much it does.

 

There's no point in arguing against Winter about this, because it's the same basic ideaology as Shock Master. Easy to make wimp that manages to steal games/matchups by simply existing.

 

As for Palomuro: People are building in a way that, while not amazing, gives you easily searchable access to a matchup winner. How is that "pitiful" or "bad"? It seems to me that the ones saying such are the ones that fit such, as it's a means to win matchups without trying too hard. If you're making an early Nat Beast, you don't NEED to NS Joker. Why? They're counting on 6 cards to save them, lest you win right after

 

Naturia Beast is a card that has LONG been pegged as broken as funk, and bad for the game. It has the power to shift formats, and the potential to overcentralize the gamestate, which is never good.

 

This isn't news. Nor is it news that answers don't balance a card. If you have to dilute your deck with, say, 12 hand traps (Argument's sake), then you're giving up a third or so of your deck to outing a card. Sure, they're multi-purpose, but how is that not overcentralizing?

 

It doesn't matter that answers exist. It doesn't matter that It's only 2200. It matters that, if you get it out first, your opponent is stuck with 6 cards in hand, and has to pray that they drew the outs. That, or open the hand traps that are/can find answers. How wonderful.

[Hexanort]

can block more than 1/3 of the game (including pendulum), and with cost that arent even cost at all

i dont even need to know meta to see that this is worth a ban

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I tried to stay away, but the ill-informed circle jerk is just too much. If you're going to discuss something or make points, add to the topic at hand. If you're ignorant of the gamestate, simply put, shut the f*** up. This may not be the best place for competitive YGO, but we don't need salt or ignorance here, not to mention 2-5 word spam posts that add genuinely nothing to the discussion.

 

Uh, are you serious?

 

First off, Winda was an extreme example of powercreep on release, and people HATED her. She got limited OCG side, though IDK if she's still there. Furthermore, she requires running an Engine and, as you said, is tied to an archetype. She doesn't entirely shut out the game, though she is strong, and it's not a fair comparison to make.

 

It has nothing to do with Clowns. Performapal, themselves, can get access to it just fine, and it's not a matter of splashable. It's a matter of how much it does.

 

There's no point in arguing against Winter about this, because it's the same basic ideaology as Shock Master. Easy to make wimp that manages to steal games/matchups by simply existing.

 

As for Palomuro: People are building in a way that, while not amazing, gives you easily searchable access to a matchup winner. How is that "pitiful" or "bad"? It seems to me that the ones saying such are the ones that fit such, as it's a means to win matchups without trying too hard. If you're making an early Nat Beast, you don't NEED to NS Joker. Why? They're counting on 6 cards to save them, lest you win right after

 

Naturia Beast is a card that has LONG been pegged as broken as f***, and bad for the game. It has the power to shift formats, and the potential to overcentralize the gamestate, which is never good.

 

This isn't news. Nor is it news that answers don't balance a card. If you have to dilute your deck with, say, 12 hand traps (Argument's sake), then you're giving up a third or so of your deck to outing a card. Sure, they're multi-purpose, but how is that not overcentralizing?

 

It doesn't matter that answers exist. It doesn't matter that It's only 2200. It matters that, if you get it out first, your opponent is stuck with 6 cards in hand, and has to pray that they drew the outs. That, or open the hand traps that are/can find answers. How wonderful.

As someone ignorant to TCG's pepe builds, could you give me a standard opening hand and how to make beast off that? It just seems you're giving away a fair bit to play protect the castle with a card that's quite match up dependent and fairly easy to out.

 

The PEPE I knew always wanted it normal for something or the other Black. That's why I feel this card which can already be outed by a fair number of cards pepe is/should be running, while perhaps not the most balanced, doesn't merit a ban

 

If we were to ban on design, then Barkion should go to right?

 

First of all, I'm not entirely sure what circle jerk you're accusing me of (if you are), I have never said that Nat Beast wasn't a pain in the ass, but unlike something like Shock Bastard, it manually activates and resolves every-time, and while it's cost may be laughable, it is inherently a detriment to the deck in question that can and will bite you if the beast play gets outed.

 

Winda was hated for a while until people realized she was the best thing that happened to this game since Ophion. She slowed down game in a way we all drastically needed. Why did people hate her? Since she became Super Poly (@3's) bottom b**** and stalled just enough until you could push for game with BLS/CED/Construct. Konami finally realized those three were the problems not Winda, which is why Winda is at three in both format and construct banned. Power creep you say, yet looking at jap nats of the 2014. Heros won. Rulers got top 16. Infernity won. Shaddolls got an ass kicking, and this was pre-any hits.

 

PPal can access it sure, but looking at results, unlike the djinn in nekroz, this card is sided normally. Hardly indicative of the warping nature of Djinn. And this is completely ignoring the fact that perhaps PPals are the problem and not Beast? What decks have abused Beast as of recent? Cause I'm not counting all that many. A deck that can go +6 out of it's ass deserves more scrutiny than a card that's last major impact was the occasional play in six sams

 

Shock- how long are we gonna beat this horse Black? I've said time and time again, I was f***ing wrong. OCG is a better format without shock, I will maintain that it's ban didn't fix anything, but it being gone is nice. So don't make it seem like I'm some manner of wall not willing to listen when he sees results

 

The normal, by ignoring your normal, you're burning one of two major ways to get pendulum sorcerer, and the opponents deck already runs things like Jigabyte and Archfiend, it it really worth Nat beast when you could instead end on Infinity Raff or Raff set 3 and NOT potentially torch your follow up?

 

Again, never once saying this card isn't a b****, merely that it's NOT the problem here and that pepe is the one that need a hammer to the knee.

 

Don't ever accuse me of circle jerking, cause you know fully well that's not me

 

can block more than 1/3 of the game (including pendulum), and with cost that arent even cost at all

i dont even need to know meta to see that this is worth a ban

 

If we look at the context of pendulums, milling Pendulum monsters isn't all that great of a play. It's a cost that can potentially be exploited since you're ruining any follow up plays by relying on one card, which is something I've never been comfortable with

[Blake]

Barkion has a genuine cost, is good against a much smaller number of decks, and can be baited/outplayed without wasting a turn. It's honestly more of a trap stun-type card, with the only exceptions being Trap Monsters... Even then, with all those traps, you can burn it out.

 

Nat Beast has a "cost" that can be a boon, at least in theory. It's good against the majority of decks, at least in some propensity, and it completely wrecks others. And unlike Barkion, who stops slow cards, Nat Beast stops cards that will realistically answer it.

 

Monkey + Sorc OR Monkey + High Scale

Draco Face-Off

 

That's it.

1. DraFace -> Dracoverlord + Master
2. Set Monkey, find missing piece.
3. Pendulum out the Dragon in ED + Sorc.
4. Sorc kabooms the scales and finds Monkey/Joker.
5. Dragon + Dragon = King Feral (or Lavalval Chain, OCG)
6. Use the Xyz, get the tuner.
7. Summon the tuner
8. Tuner + Sorc = Beast.

That leaves you two other cards to play with. And there are other hands that do similar.

 

You also say matchup dependent, but Nai showed how TCG sides it so... what's your point?

 

Yes, the NS is important... So why not use your NS to WIN THE GAME?

 

Before I make an important point, I'd like to point out how Pepe doesn't have a ton of built-in answers. GO&SN doesn't see much play, due to being a generally mediocre card, Maxx "C" isn't guaranteed to stop it, Veiler is dead against it after the turn it hits the board, and so on. Eccentrick has to be drawn, and Performapal Helpprincess isn't something you'll run multiples of. Jigabyte is back to having to be drawn, and that's ONLY pepe, not Pedra/etc.

 

And ffs, I pointed out that beast has been in people's sights for ages. Stop thinking in the scope of Pepe alone.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Fair point on Barkion in that it can "burn out" it's cost.

 

Problem.

 

Monkey becomes 4, and the Lords/Slayers are either 3/5....so how are you going to pendulum summon...that leaves you with 1 card instead of the two you mentioned unless I'm missing something very important here. And there enlies my problem. You CAN end up with 2-3 cards fairly easily with Raff-CDI or Raff-Trap or CDI-Trap...so why go for a play that won't let you use a major + maker for you when either of those 3 field I mentioned likely have less outs than what beast would require?

 

It's not my format Black, I don't play TCG often, and when I do it's Kozmo, not pepe so I feel bad trying to tell you one way or another. But you do realize OCG has piss easy Nat beast and it's not considered the problem at all right? The only two decks that I've recalled that can use beast are sams and now this. Hardly something of a meta impact relative to Wizard and pals which have now officially trounced Rulers and Books. Just matter of priorities imo

[IQuitDolphin]

Problem.

 

Monkey becomes 4, and the Lords/Slayers are either 3/5....so how are you going to pendulum summon...that leaves you with 1 card instead of the two you mentioned unless I'm missing something very important here.

 

 

1. Set Monkey, find missing piece.

[Kaiji]

Brilliant fusion pretty much guaranteed a Beast alongside a joker

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

So Sorc + Clash + Monkey

 

A three card combo that don't even have access to multiple searchers due not being able to use Joker

 

If anything my problem with with Palo, I'd be more inclined to believe Beast is as big of a threat if a method without burning your joker was found. It personally just feels a bit iffy

 

But then again, I was wrong about shock, so could be round two of that 

Brilliant fusion pretty much guaranteed a Beast alongside a joker

Wasn't Brilliant Dropped after PEPE full power got TCG'ed? If beast as as good as people say, wouldn't MORE people play brilliant pepe? But sure, seph can give you the double normal you need

 

I could be wrong, it just seems like either Brilliant should have picked up or people are agreeing that raff/cdi/traps (2/3) combination is better for the deck

[Kaiji]

It's the beginning of the format. Who knows when it will stabilize or reach a consensus since the most recent event with coverage was YCS Sydney

 

Meliae is seeing play so it's not exclusive to Brilliant Fusion

You are wrong about a lot of things so it's no surprise

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It's the beginning of the format. Who knows when it will stabilize or reach a consensus since the most recent event with coverage was YCS Sydney

Meliae is seeing play so it's not exclusive to Brilliant FusionYou are wrong about a lot of things so it's no surprise

Sackpot 7?! MIND GAMES!

 

But yeah I'll be interested to see if Brilliant picks up again and if so what gets cut form the deck

[SirReal]

In the case of answers existing, the question becomes "what are those answers?" If an answer is already a good answer and multipurpose and was seeing play before Nat Beast hit the scene, then while Beast is good, it's not as problematic as a card that needs outs that see no play except specifically to out them. 

 

Case in point: Beelze. Before Castel and 101, this thing was easily a win condition by itself when it was first revealed. Later, Castel and 101 were played and outed Beelze. Were they played specifically to out Beelze? No. They were played because they out a lot more than just Beelze and have a lot of utility. 

 

Two outs that I can think of for Nat Beast are Ghost Ogre & Snow Rabbit and Archfiend Eccentrick. Ghost Ogre is played now because of Ptolemeus mainly, so it's already seeing play although it's also a case of overcentralizing as it won't see as much play should Ptolemeus get banned. Archfiend Eccentrick is generally a good card and would likely see play as long as there are threats to bait or remove (who can be removed by targeted destruction). It also Doubles as a non-quickplay MST so it's rarely truly a dead card.

 

The only real difference is that most outs to Beast are main decked outs rather than an extra deck based out. Having to main outs to it, can potentially ruin your deck's consistency. Another way to out Beast would be to play more Jigobyte and Hat Tricker and try to do Extra deck stuff with them without having to set up scales.