Fat shaming vs Fat acceptance, where do we draw the line?

[epicmemesbro]

For those that don't know there is a trend of "fat acceptance" in which people stride to promote a society in which the overweight are seen as perfectly normal with no need to change their diet or exercise. This is obviously a problem due to it promoting unhealthy habits. Of course the opposite of this is "fat shaming" in which the overweight are humiliated over their weight. Extremes are not the solution, but how do we find a solution in a manner that doesn't cause the overweight to be victimized without encouraging them to stop trying to improve their health?

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Pretty simple. Don't shame, try and help if it's a problem. And know that there isn't one singular way for everyone.

[VCR_CAT]

I don't know how many times I need to say this, or why it isn't obvious.

 

Don't Be A Dick.

[Kyng]

Don't Be A Dick.

/thread.

 

Literally. There's no better response.

[Makο]

Don't be a jabroni. But also, don't accept the idea of "fat is beautiful" either. It's not.

 

source: am fat.

[Lunar Origins]

Don't be a jabroni. But also, don't accept the idea of "fat is beautiful" either. It's not.

 

source: am fat.

 

wow mako and i agree on something

 

just don't equate someone's entire personality to being fat.  i've known countless people who have been straight up called stupid and useless for simply being overweight and that's not okay

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Also I am fat and if someone told me I had a good body I would shake my head and explain that is incorrect.

...If someone says cute I might accept it, but probably just be embarrassed.

 

Fat people can look good. But it's not the fat that makes them look good.

Unless that's someone's kink. Though at that point you shouldn't stay an unhealthy weight to satisfy someone's kink.

 

Hopefully some of that made sense.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

I stopped caring honestly.

 

Only my personal overweight friends are able to take criticism of their weight. Mostly they acknowledge it or joke about it. Everyone else I meet nowadays would just make excuses for why they are the way they are and tell people to "F*ck off", cause they don't like their opinion on the matter.

 

Let them eat themselves to death. Why should I care? I have no reason to help if they don't help themselves. Problem persists, that's their fault, I have more important issues to take care of.

[Makο]

I stopped caring honestly.

 

Only my personal overweight friends are able to take criticism of their weight. Mostly they acknowledge it or joke about it. Everyone else I meet nowadays would just make excuses for why they are the way they are and tell people to "F*ck off", cause they don't like their opinion on the matter.

 

Let them eat themselves to death. Why should I care? I have no reason to help if they don't help themselves. Problem persists, that's their fault, I have more important issues to take care of.

There are so many other reasons as to why someone might be overweight besides "unable to control themselves." The fact that you're so callous and dismissive towards the woes of those who are overweight removes any doubt I had in my mind about what kind of character you are.

 

It's fine if you don't care. No one should have to care about every woe in the world. But you can take you and your opinion elsewhere, friend.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

There are so many other reasons as to why someone might be overweight besides "unable to control themselves." The fact that you're so callous and dismissive towards the woes of those who are overweight removes any doubt I had in my mind about what kind of character you are.

 

It's fine if you don't care. No one should have to care about every woe in the world. But you can take you and your opinion elsewhere, friend.

I understand that. I don't seem to find it a woe as much, however, when most of them tell me it is not an issue nor should I add my opinion to it. I am simply saying why should I go to places I am not wanted? It seems illogical to me. I am not going to White Knight for them with a "DEAR CHAP HOW CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR OWN OVERBEARING WEIGHT!? HERE, LET ME CONSTANTLY POLICE EVERYTHING YOU DO EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE COMPLETELY FINE WITH YOUR WEIGHT AND DON'T WANT MY HELP. DON'T WORRY FRIEND, YOU NEED MY HELP, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW IT!"

 

If there is one thing I dislike it is people budging in on people's lives, especially where they ain't wanted. I dislike people who go around giving overweight people advice when it was not asked for or wanted in the first place. I don't wish to be THAT person, and I cannot put the effort in to specifically look out for overweight people who want help because I already have a heavy plate of issues to focus on as it is. Bottom line, I can help those who come and ask for it, but this is not an issue I feel like jumping headfirst into, especially since, every time I did, it was not needed or wanted.

[Makο]

I understand that. I don't seem to find it a woe as much, however, when most of them tell me it is not an issue nor should I add my opinion to it. I am simply saying why should I go to places I am not wanted? It seems illogical to me. I am not going to White Knight for them with a "DEAR CHAP HOW CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR OWN OVERBEARING WEIGHT!? HERE, LET ME CONSTANTLY POLICE EVERYTHING YOU DO EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE COMPLETELY FINE WITH YOUR WEIGHT AND DON'T WANT MY HELP. DON'T WORRY FRIEND, YOU NEED MY HELP, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW IT!"

 

If they don't want your opinion on it, that's fine. You give an ok and look the other way. No one is asking you to White Knight them for such a thing, so I don't understand the point of this entire segment.

 

If there is one thing I dislike it is people budging in on people's lives, especially where they ain't wanted. I dislike people who go around giving overweight people advice when it was not asked for or wanted in the first place. I don't wish to be THAT person, and I cannot put the effort in to specifically look out for overweight people who want help because I already have a heavy plate of issues to focus on as it is. Bottom line, I can help those who come and ask for it, but this is not an issue I feel like jumping headfirst into, especially since, every time I did, it was not needed or wanted.

 

Again, no one is asking you to. I fail to see why you are here telling us "I don't want to be here."

 

My issue I had with what you were saying is that it went beyond "They don't want my advice, so that's fine." The problem was that you were overly rude and aggressive towards those who are overweight. Just because they don't want your advice doesn't mean that you can wish them to eat themselves to death, blaming them for something that very well might have been out of their control.

 

It's possible to still care about something without butting in and giving advice where it's not wanted. I care about woman who have abortions, but I don't go up and give them my opinion every time I see one.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

My issue I had with what you were saying is that it went beyond "They don't want my advice, so that's fine." The problem was that you were overly rude and aggressive towards those who are overweight. Just because they don't want your advice doesn't mean that you can wish them to eat themselves to death, blaming them for something that very well might have been out of their control.

 

It's possible to still care about something without butting in and giving advice where it's not wanted. I care about woman who have abortions, but I don't go up and give them my opinion every time I see one.

I don't think it was aggressive in any way. Aggressive would be something along the lines of "FAT PEOPLE SUCK AND DON'T LISTEN TO ME THEY CAN BURN." I was simply apathetic to the whole situation, or at least most of it. I dislike those who shame overweight people, but I just don't feel most of them want help, unless they ask for it. In a sense I am pretty much 100% fat acceptance. That was the whole point I made. Why should anyone have any reason to go to any degree other than 100% fat acceptance? Because it promotes an unhealthy lifestyle? That's a lifestyle they choose to live (most of the time, other times it's medical, psychological, etc.) I don't really care what's "promoted" I don't feel bad for not bringing up people's weight when I talk to them, nor do I feel it's my business. And yes, I believe we have a culture that almost fully encourages you to confront overweight people and bother them to solve the problems you see until it is fixed.

[Makο]

I don't think it was aggressive in any way. Aggressive would be something along the lines of "FAT PEOPLE SUCK AND DON'T LISTEN TO ME THEY CAN BURN." I was simply apathetic to the whole situation, or at least most of it. I dislike those who shame overweight people, but I just don't feel most of them want help, unless they ask for it. In a sense I am pretty much 100% fat acceptance. That was the whole point I made. Why should anyone have any reason to go to any degree other than 100% fat acceptance? Because it promotes an unhealthy lifestyle? That's a lifestyle they choose to live (most of the time, other times it's medical, psychological, etc.) I don't really care what's "promoted" I don't feel bad for not bringing up people's weight when I talk to them, nor do I feel it's my business. And yes, I believe we have a culture that almost fully encourages you to confront overweight people and bother them to solve the problems you see until it is fixed.

 

 

 

Let them eat themselves to death. Why should I care? I have no reason to help if they don't help themselves. Problem persists, that's their fault, I have more important issues to take care of.

 

This doesn't seem like apathy. If it were true "apathy," wouldn't you have not commented in the first place? Why did you feel the need to come in here and say "I don't care about them because they don't care about my advice" ?

[Halubaris Maphotika]

This doesn't seem like apathy. If it were true "apathy," wouldn't you have not commented in the first place? Why did you feel the need to come in here and say "I don't care about them because they don't care about my advice" ?

I enjoy participating in general? also...

 

I was simply apathetic to the whole situation, or at least most of it.

[vla1ne]

Extremes are not the solution, but how do we find a solution in a manner that doesn't cause the overweight to be victimized without encouraging them to stop trying to improve their health?

 

depends on how much it takes to call it victimizing. if all it takes is a few blunt words to send people into the corner, then it's gonna be hard to help them, sometimes you've gotta be the guy who says sheet other people won't like. and if fat shaming is the only way to get the point across, then so be it. but As for fat shaming and fat acceptance as a whole, the way i see it, if you are overweight, that's your own issue, and if you want help, then that's one thing, but if you don't want help, that's fine too, but don't expect everybody to be accepting, and don't assume everybody's going to be an jabroni about it either.

 

the people who want to improve might need a push or two to improve, and for them, i'll do whatever i can to help, but those who want to indulge in acceptance as if they don't have any problem at all are the kinds of people that don't need, and definitely don't want me on their side.

[Makο]

I enjoy participating in general? also...

I can't call what you said as "participating." The topic at hand is about trying to find a fine line between encouraging people to lose weight, or showing them that being fat is not "healthy" or "ok for you," without being a total nosey dick about it.

 

Your post basically said nothing.

[Agro]

fat does not always equate to unhealthy

bmi is widely considered to be a shitty system of measuring whether someone is overweight

muscle weighs more than fat

professional athletes are often labeled as overweight, which is dangerous if they try to lose weight

"beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

there is literally a culture where women drink sheet tons of milk to get fat because it's considered attractive

funk you

are you happy now

[Halubaris Maphotika]

fat does not always equate to unhealthy

there is literally a culture where women drink s*** tons of milk to get fat because it's considered attractive

f*** you

are you happy now

http://www.vice.com/video/the-fat-farms-of-mauritania

 

Sh*ts real. And no, overweightness doesn't always equate to being unhealthy. Also I'd be the first guy to say that justifying a healthy lifestyle with excuses is wrong, but the bmi is pretty crap. I mean it hasn't been updated in years and hasn't adapted to recent medical discoveries. People using that argument don't make sense to me.

[Aix]

fat does not always equate to unhealthy

bmi is widely considered to be a shitty system of measuring whether someone is overweight

muscle weighs more than fat

professional athletes are often labeled as overweight, which is dangerous if they try to lose weight

"beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

there is literally a culture where women drink sheet tons of milk to get fat because it's considered attractive

funk you

are you happy now

Yeah your perception of beauty is heavily influenced by culture, but don't quote me on that because I ain't no scientician. However, looking at the "ideal" body shape for women over the ages is pretty astonishing.

 

I don't think it was aggressive in any way. Aggressive would be something along the lines of "FAT PEOPLE SUCK AND DON'T LISTEN TO ME THEY CAN BURN." I was simply apathetic to the whole situation, or at least most of it. I dislike those who shame overweight people, but I just don't feel most of them want help, unless they ask for it. In a sense I am pretty much 100% fat acceptance. That was the whole point I made. Why should anyone have any reason to go to any degree other than 100% fat acceptance? Because it promotes an unhealthy lifestyle? That's a lifestyle they choose to live (most of the time, other times it's medical, psychological, etc.) I don't really care what's "promoted" I don't feel bad for not bringing up people's weight when I talk to them, nor do I feel it's my business. And yes, I believe we have a culture that almost fully encourages you to confront overweight people and bother them to solve the problems you see until it is fixed.

You made a pretty aggressive and condescending portrayal generalizing overweight people.

 

OT: As far as I was aware, fat acceptance is a reactionary movement by tumblr and social justice warriors against fat shaming. Unfortunately, many idiots out there end up thinking that unhealthy body-shape is a-okay or that people don't find fat attractive are victimizing them.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

OT: As far as I was aware, fat acceptance is a reactionary movement by tumblr and social justice warriors against fat shaming. Unfortunately, many idiots out there end up thinking that unhealthy body-shape is a-okay or that people don't find fat attractive are victimizing them.

Where is the line drawn though for pointing this out? Is it really necessary? Unless they deliberately ask for it, I see no reason to bring things up to them that just might generally make them unhappy. I don't think we should say it's a-okay, but there is definitely a point where bringing it up serves no one except the white-knightey ego of the one bringing it up.

 

In no way did I present my opinion as being above overweight people, most of you guys are just mad because I didn't sugar coat facts or pretend like this was something that meant a lot to me, when I would be lying if I did. This site is so passive-aggressive that the moment someone just decides to be blunt yall just lose your minds.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

So I guess really if I think about it, even if Halu hates fat people (which I doubt he does just going to extremes) it doesn't really turn us away from the topic at hand.

 

Mainly the question is when should you interfere with someone who seems unhealthily overweight?

[Halubaris Maphotika]

So I guess really if I think about it, even if Halu hates fat people

Absolutely not. In no way do I hate overweight people, many of my friends are overweight.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Absolutely not. In no way do I hate overweight people, many of my friends are overweight.

Yeah. Hence.

(which I doubt he does just going to extremes)

So yeah, that's done with yes?

[Lunar Origins]

i have a really bad feeling that this is devolving into a shitshow

 

but, eh, anyways, i suppose i'll chime in again

 

quoting aix, i don't think the people of the 'fat acceptance' movement are idiots.  not in the least.  the people who have perpetrated that movement are likely the victims of years of abuse based on their weight.  i mean, come on.  it happens.  we've all been in high school, we've all seen the sheet that goes down and happens to overweight people.  hell, i've literally beaten someone's ass over calling my friend a fat piece of sheet ( i was a violent kid in high school. )  and you know what?  a lot of them can't help it.  depression and obesity literally do go hand in hand.  giving them a little solace in saying that 'you're totally valuable as a human being even if you're overweight' is awesome.  and it's not like they don't know that it's unhealthy - even so, knowing about this 'fat is beautiful' movement doesn't stop them from pursuing losing weight.  you think some overweight girl is going to want to gain more weight because a couple people said fat is beautiful?  nah son

[Tentacruel]

Well, you see...

 

I don't know how many times I need to say this, or why it isn't obvious.

 

Don't Be A Dick.

I can't phrase it better than this. 

 

 

 

That being said, it does worry me when people spread misinformation, even with good intentions, about body weight.  Outside of certain medical conditions, losing weight is possible, not easy, but possible.  It is as simple as calories in < calories out.