Rape Culture

[Wahrheit]

according to which national, empirically valid poll

 

but again, missing the point

 

if and when men become put in the same oversexualized victim-blamed unlikely-to-have-their-case-processed-by-someone-of-their-gender lack-of-power-to-act situation then yes programs aimed specifically at investigating the abuse men face will be important

 

but the programs that help women also help all men and the reverse is not true

 

it's gross and awful to make the arguments that you are pushing so hard, you're picking a shitty hill to die on, and it's awful that you would rather pull this "but MEN!" schtick instead of maybe having a conversation about what you can do to support the people in your life who have actually been abused (who are probably mostly if not all women, by the way)

 

re: vcr cat it's not like gold medals because one group is disproportionately abused and that matters

 

re: re: vcr cat the way to prevent sexual assault is to not have threads like this one and to believe women (and men, but mostly women) when they say they are abused and help them utilize the resources available to get justice

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

it's gross and awful to make the arguments that you are pushing so hard, you're picking a shitty hill to die on, and it's awful that you would rather pull this "but MEN!" schtick instead of maybe having a conversation about what you can do to support the people in your life who have actually been abused (who are probably mostly if not all women, by the way)

One last thing I'll say because we're going in circles.

It's not as though anyone's saying we shouldn't talk about what to do for abused people. This one conversation doesn't mean that I am not also thinking about those things. I'm fully capable of having a discussion about male rape victims and the problem of rape in general simultaneously.

Pick your battles but don't ignore the other battlefields would be the general idea. Put more energy in fighting the problems you must but don't let it detract from other problems while you do.

 

(and that part is just needlessly tacked on I feel and not even true in certain cases, assumptions aren't good)

[Wahrheit]

One last thing I'll say because we're going in circles.

It's not as though anyone's saying we shouldn't talk about what to do for abused people. This one conversation doesn't mean that I am not also thinking about those things. I'm fully capable of having a discussion about male rape victims and the problem of rape in general simultaneously.

Pick your battles but don't ignore the other battlefields would be the general idea. Put more energy in fighting the problems you must but don't let it detract from other problems while you do.

 

(and that part is just needlessly tacked on I feel and not even true in certain cases, assumptions aren't good)

it's inefficient and probably morally wrong to focus on a party that is not disproportionately abused rather than one that is - the outcome will be less effective and you are ignoring the people who are hurt the most

 

nobody is forgetting men, they just need to not always be the focus of the conversation in order to make sure the most people get helped

 

this is not a hard thing to understand

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

It can't be that hard to understand the best method to fight the witch hunt kangaroo court mentality our society has currently and refine our ultimate desire for justice is to devote more time to male rape. Why? Because our society doesn't believe in male rape, by giving it more time, the nuances of the grey areas will be flushed out, because, wait for it, skepticism.

 

This flushed out guidelines can then be applied to female rape cases and we get the ideal case of where rapists are in incarcerated, and innocents don't have their life ruined

[Wahrheit]

It can't be that hard to understand the best method to fight the witch hunt kangaroo court mentality our society has currently and refine our ultimate desire for justice is to devote more time to male rape. Why? Because our society doesn't believe in male rape, by giving it more time, the nuances of the grey areas will be flushed out, because, wait for it, skepticism.

 

This flushed out guidelines can then be applied to female rape cases and we get the ideal case of where rapists are in incarcerated, and innocents don't have their life ruined

nothing you are saying is supported by evidence

[epicmemesbro]

We appear to be deviating from the topic which is rape culture, not double standards and rape.

 

Anywho, the issue is the lack of education, and no I'm not talking about teaching men not to rape, I'm talking about educating people on what consent and rape is and what its not. That way there will be more progress on criminalizing offenders and less false accusations.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

1.) it's inefficient and probably morally wrong to focus on a party that is not disproportionately abused rather than one that is - the outcome will be less effective and you are ignoring the people who are hurt the most

 

2.) nobody is forgetting men, they just need to not always be the focus of the conversation in order to make sure the most people get helped

 

3.) this is not a hard thing to understand

Ugggh I need to do another because I really want this point across.

1.) I never said focus, did you actually read what I wrote?

2.) Nobody? Yet your own links say that men's reports are ignored/not believed/misinterpreted.

3.) Clearly it is for some if you keep not understanding when I keep clearly explaining.

[Wahrheit]

We appear to be deviating from the topic which is rape culture, not double standards and rape.

 

Anywho, the issue is the lack of education, and no I'm not talking about teaching men not to rape, I'm talking about educating people on what consent and rape is and what its not. That way there will be more progress on criminalizing offenders and less false accusations.

teaching men (people, if you must) not to rape is most likely to reduce sexual assault b/c most rape is committed by men (most men are raped by gay males) - but also because rape is about power and control and the choices people make based on what they perceive to be allowable in society

 

the best chance at overriding that default is direct information

 

it's why we have sexual assault training at universities

 

and it works

 

take the L

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

nothing you are saying is supported by evidence

It's supported by basic human psychology. Male Rape is essential a blank slate, hell its better than that because people are so reluctant to believe its a thing. If the scrutiny applied to it were to be universally applied you would be able to flush out more cases and find more valid ones.

 

Of course there's no hard evidence damn it, that's the point. Nobody gives two hoot if a guy complains of rape, it's just the usual, "you got laid, stop showing off jabroni"

[Wahrheit]

It's supported by basic human psychology. Male Rape is essential a blank slate, hell its better than that because people are so reluctant to believe its a thing. If the scrutiny applied to it were to be universally applied you would be able to flush out more cases and find more valid ones.

 

Of course there's no hard evidence damn it, that's the point. Nobody gives two hoot if a guy complains of rape, it's just the usual, "you got laid, stop showing off jabroni"

studies and statistics or gtfo - I've done you the courtesy

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

I believe this was the article: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_are_sexually_assaulted.html

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

studies and statistics or gtfo - I've done you the courtesy

Glasses are what's needed.

 

There's already been enough evidence show in this thread that male rape is more of an issue than given credit

 

There are also many cases where 1) Women currently feel they won't get justice, so they don't press the matter 2) The situation is sketchy at best and innocent people are incarcerated or punished, ie. something like the Occidental College case

 

At this point, actively pursuing male rape will bring prosecution back to an "innocent until proven guilty" & "punishment if proven guilty" stance. Because, people are naturally skeptical to it's validity already.

 

It's not hard to put 2 and 2 together 

 

What this would do however, is 1) Highlight how big a problem rape is and not just a gender issue, thus pulling in more public outcry against it 2)Said Outcry would embolden more women to stand up for their rights AND 3) Not ignore an entire gender just cause social values

[Wahrheit]

I believe this was the article: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_are_sexually_assaulted.html

https://sapac.umich.edu/article/196

 

http://www.oneinfourusa.org/statistics.php

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_males

 

the numbers are not good for men, but they are worse and disproportionate for women

 

statistics

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

Your links include contradictory information, some of which is antiquated. 

 

 

https://sapac.umich.edu/article/196

Nearly 99% of sex offenders in single-victim incidents were male

 

Under an antiquated (and morally wrong) definition. 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_males

The 2014 National Crime Victimization Survey found that 38 percent of incidents of rape and other sexual violence were against men

 

A very different picture. 

 

That said, I agree that women are victimized more and that men are more often the culprits.

[Wahrheit]

yes there are different links because each link has some more recent studies about each statistic than each other link that was the point thank you for noticing

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I will sum up my entire point thusly.

 

Put more energy in the larger issues, but don't ignore the smaller ones while you're at it.

And smaller issue doesn't mean unimportant.

That's basically the entirety of my idea on it, in the most basic way I could.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

yes there are different links because each link has some more recent studies about each statistic than each other link that was the point thank you for noticing

 

 

Which "more recent studies" are you alluding to? 

 

The most recent say relevant to the subject at hand in any of your linked articles appears to be 2014 with the National Crime Victimization Survey, as I was referring you to. 

[Wahrheit]

I will sum up my entire point thusly.

 

Put more energy in the larger issues, but don't ignore the smaller ones while you're at it.

And smaller issue doesn't mean unimportant.

That's basically the entirety of my idea on it, in the most basic way I could.

nobody is "ignoring the smaller one" and the programs that help women also help men

 

posting a topic called "rape culture" and talking exclusively about how "men face abuse too!!!" is the problem - yes, they do, and the best way to help them is to implement programs that teach people to listen to survivors

 

please recognize that the strong desire by ycmers to focus on men ITT represents the larger demographic's response when women try to discuss the pain and abuse they face

 

all I mean to say is that you can do the most good by focusing your efforts on programs that specifically include women, because they will by overlap also include men

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

If the male rape rates go above the 50% mark should we just drop female rape?

 

God f***ing damn it, 38% is a sickeningly high rate and men are taking their own damn lives because society forces them to bottle it up as people are so focused on playing kangaroo court with females. ANYTHING larger than 0% is a problem and deserves undivided attention

 

Programs that would help men would also help females, moreso infact, because as of right now, the way prosecution works, you're ignoring most cases of male rape, AND chucking a fair amount of innocent men in jail. What a wonderful way to get half your specie to support a cause

 

 

no like I said it would mean that the programs should focus on men because of the disparity

 

the issue is the disparity

 

never have I ever said that the issues men face don't matter, please don't think otherwise

 

 

Not talking anyone in person. But in general male rape is far less likely to get traction. You might think men facing this is an issue that matter, but most people sure as hell don't

[Wahrheit]

If the male rape rates go above the 50% mark should we just drop female rape?

 

God funking damn it, 38% is a sickeningly high rate and men are taking their own damn lives because society forces them to bottle it up as people are so focused on playing kangaroo court with females. ANYTHING larger than 0% is a problem and deserves undivided attention

no like I said it would mean that the programs should focus on men because of the disparity

 

the issue is the disparity

 

never have I ever said that the issues men face don't matter, please don't think otherwise

 

women are committing suicide also and probably at higher rates (though the numbers for both genders here are unavailable for obvious reasons)

 

"undivided attention" doesn't exist, so we have to work efficiently, and the most efficient use of energy is programs that specifically include women - they also help men

 

I will draw a picture in the morning to help explain if you are still confused

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

nobody is "ignoring the smaller one" and the programs that help women also help men

 

posting a topic called "rape culture" and talking exclusively about how "men face abuse too!!!" is the problem - yes, they do, and the best way to help them is to implement programs that teach people to listen to survivors

 

please recognize that the strong desire by ycmers to focus on men ITT represents the larger demographic's response when women try to discuss the pain and abuse they face

 

all I mean to say is that you can do the most good by focusing your efforts on programs that specifically include women, because they will by overlap also include men

Can you please stop saying "nobody" when your own links prove that to be false.

 

And my only reason for focusing on men was because of the fact that the current discussion was about that.

Also because I was abused several times over the years but y'all don't have a reason to hear that.

 

If a woman told me about sexual abuse they face I would not be saying "but men too" but that's not the case here. This one thread is talking specifically about male rape.

 

We're not on opposing sides here, Wahr. Really we're not.

[Wahrheit]

I mean I was abused too but I still know it happens more often to women and programs focused on them that also help men are the best way to solve the problem

 

please donate at http://rainn.org to support sexual assault survivors

 

goodnight and thank you for your time

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

I suppose it feels every post you're making is implying that none of us care to help people, or that we're only focusing on one thing just because this thread is currently talking about it. When I've said many times it isn't the case.