Lonk Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Pay 800 Life Points, then target 1 face-up monster your opponent controls; take control of that target until the End Phase. Let us make it known that this card will never come off the banlist. Cards that take control of an opponent's monster are generally very powerful and effects of these cards that are instantaneous without very hindering downsides tend to be broken and put on the banlist. In essence, the effect of taking control of an opponent's monster will be a +2 minus the costs associated with it. And then we have the Brain Seize art in the upcoming Xenoblade Chronicles X game, which allows a character to take control of an enemy that doesn't resist the control debuff (which is actually alot of enemies in the game). It's broken. By its very nature, taking control of a monster is a very unbalanced mechanic; on one end, you rob your opponent of a (potentially) important resource without much of any cost which would usually end up with winning games due to the fact that your opponent would be left more vulnerable while you gain more power. On the other end, you have something like Emperor of Prophecy where you can take control of a monster but the designers slapped on so many costs and restrictions on it that it isn't even worth using. So discuss the mechanic of taking control over an opponent's monster in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Snatch came off, MC went to 2 in OCG. Might happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanashimi Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 The best thing about this card than Snatch Steal is that it's MST-proof But i think this simple card is powerful, so i don't think it leaves the deep-shadow-abyss of forbidden list. (unless if in the near future we have a format that "targeting" effect become more useless) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet MS Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 The mechanic is rather absurd in this game because you can commonly use said monster to fuel your own plays and make something even bigger. That's why Mind Control was very benign until Synchros turned up and allowed another means of using up the monster and bypassing its usual drawbacks. Act of Treason and similar cards exist in Magic, but under most situations you need another card (and more mana) to ensure the opponent doesn't get their monster back. While the possibilities to exploit these effects are very much endless in constructed, in Limited your best bet is snatching the opponent's big thing to beat their face in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Still Mind Control went to 2 did it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted November 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Still Mind Control went to 2 did it not? and in the TCG, Snatch Steal was limited for a format before it was deemed to be too broken and locked back up in the Forbidden List, which means that the banned control-stealing cards would still remain banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Snatch Steal was so broken that people agreed to side it out during recorded YCS feature matches, I don't think they'll make the same mistake again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Βyakuya Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Storytime: During a Draft format, I used Pot of Greed and set Magician of Faith. My friend ended up using Change of Heart to add my Faith and bounce his Change of Heart. Trolling ensued and he won cause of it since he used it later. These kinds of virtually costless control cards are going to stay on the banlist because we're in the era where monster effects used by your opponent can have huge consequences, and can fuel power by using it as Extra Deck material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 and in the TCG, Snatch Steal was limited for a format before it was deemed to be too broken and locked back up in the Forbidden List, which means that the banned control-stealing cards would still remain banned.Changes slowly drift over from both sides. If OCG unbans control, it could very well happen in TCG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted November 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Changes slowly drift over from both sides. If OCG unbans control, it could very well happen in TCG Except this is one change that will not happen due to different philosophies from both sides. TCG already experimented with Snatch Steal and failed, so why should it have to follow the possibility of OCG's changes by limiting Brain Control if it is a stronger Snatch Steal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Except this is one change that will not happen due to different philosophies from both sides. TCG already experimented with Snatch Steal and failed, so why should it have to follow the possibility of OCG's changes by limiting Brain Control if it is a stronger Snatch Steal?>Konami >Logic Truth be told I highly doubt it'll happen even in OCG, it's just Mind Control is slowly creeping up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Snatch Steal was so broken that people agreed to side it out during recorded YCS feature matches, I don't think they'll make the same mistake again.....This actually happened? Neat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 Just wanted to point out that Brain Control is a +1, not a +2.Brain Control goes to the Graveyard after resolving (-1),You gain a monster (+1, cancelling out the above -1), Your opponent loses a monster (+1). I agree that Brain Control would still be too risky to unban, but I couldn't rule out the possibility of it someday returning. If I remember correctly Snatch was brought back during the Dragon Ruler era, which was somewhat of a no backrow era so there wasn't much being main decked that could respond to it. Nowadays with Pendulums introduced, there is not only more of a need for removal that affects the scales, but also the simultaneous multi-Summons are more of a meat-wall that'd probably make Brain Control's impact ever so little more effective. Then there's how we have a prominent amount of target-protection in upcoming relevant meta (Monarchs have a Spell for it and then there's Majespecters). Other than that, we have things like Graydles which are an archetype full of Snatch Steel copies that don't give LP and destroy the monster rather than giving it back if they are removed. I know they are not nearly as good because they require triggering in certain ways and can be played around often enough, but the controlling effect by itself not affecting certain relevant monsters hinders them just as much. Since I'm aware that it sounds like I'm implying it could come back right now: No, I think it should still stay banned right now. I'm just saying that the game is taking steps towards a state where it could come back someday. Just look at cards like Mirror Force, where back in the day even Sakuretsu Armor was an annoyingly strong play and it was pretty much unthinkable Mirror would someday be at 3 and no see use in most decks of even casual status. Yes for now the cheap rough designs of the prehistoric times of the game tend to be more loopy and simple to the point of this... Especially control effects need restrictions and conditions that separate them from one another: For the sake of balance and for the sake of having more nice toys to play with because Change of Heart was an awful idea.Plain Spell: Control a monster for 1 turn. I mean... that was limited upon release and has always been the best controller in the game. Where do they even go from there design-wise? It was like shooting themselves on the foot because they couldn't best it in future releases and it was so good that they couldn't attempt to either. Right now they got smarter about it and it does help that the game was already established well enough for them to work over.Big Eye? Need 2 Level 7 monsters, get all monster removal it could muster towards it, and this card can't attack so it isn't OTK material necessarily.Graydles? Are somewhat specific to trigger although overlap well with the battle destruction trigger to unify them, and something as simple as setting or not attacking, or hitting them with the wrong effect could easily play around them.Mind Control makes the monster completely useless and tied down unless used for a Summon, which controlling a Level 8+ or an Xyz would mostly guarantee that's not happening. Enemy Controller takes away a monster before kicking in.... Which I'm very surprised that the 1 monster Tribute would be enough for an otherwise quick play Brain Control with a second optional effect for flexibility that is at 3 to be perfectly fine, but it is.(granted, half of these examples are actually from waaaay back in the day, and Mind Control was most likely originally made to never be relevant, and as time went on and Synchros started being a thing, it kind of just fell into place). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-kyo- Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 what if there was a card that switched the monsters on both players fields? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 what if there was a card that switched the monsters on both players fields? There is. It's called Creature Swap and is sometimes played in decks with lots of battle floaters/spirits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodfusion Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 I can imagine this and similar cards coming off the banlist in a future format if it came to the point where any really relevant monster had protection effects such as can't be targeted, unaffected by Spell Cards or control cannot switch, along with the fact that this card itself has nothing to stop it just being negated/stopped. Or that just switching control of 1 monster doesn't give you enough of an advantage for this card to be worth playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-kyo- Posted November 21, 2015 Report Share Posted November 21, 2015 There is. It's called Creature Swap and is sometimes played in decks with lots of battle floaters/spirits.i meant all of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet MS Posted November 22, 2015 Report Share Posted November 22, 2015 i meant all of themIf you had a field full of monsters, and I have only one monster, and I have that one card, here it is... My card effect reaches aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllll across the table, and starts to take your monsters. I. Take. Your. MONSTERS! *HFFFFGGGGHHHHH* I TAKE THEM ALL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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