Veteran Dominance

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

This is a problem I've been noticing for a while, YCM has a rather high dominance curve, older members tend to get away with actions that the newer members cannot easily.

 

For example. I'm an jabroni. I've been aggressive with many many people, truth be told, I've earned a ban many times over. Yet here I am sitting with 0 warning points and the last ones I got, were ones that I REQUESTED because I crossed a line.

 

Another example? Dae and Resonator. I'm sure we all remember Resonator's rather intuitive post about hosting more YCM tournaments and giving more of a reason to join this place than just our card maker. How was this received? Lets see. Reson was ridiculed, and YCM had yet another circle jerk fad among the older members. Did anyone get in trouble for that blatant display of harassment? Because I sure as hell didn't even get a verbal warning to stop. You know what message that sends? That new people really can't last here unless they're willing to bark back, and that's not healthy at all

 

Yet another example. Lets look at Klav. Kid has been an ass for who knows how long. Yet it wasn't him attacking the newer members of this community that got him banned, it was him pushing the line against multiple older members.

 

We've gotten a few gems to this site like Fyre and XOXO, but if we want to gather more positive contributions to this site, we really need to do away with the ability of older members to circle jerk and get away with it.

 

This primarily means the nuking of Misc. Misc literally contributes cancer to this site.

 

Full Definition of CANCER

Definition 2: something evil or malignant that spreads destructively

 

 

Wonder where we've seen YCM Fads get out of hand before...hmmm

 

Klav was a jackass who didn't know how to communicate to people, but by god he was right, this place is right up sheet's creek to the point where one of the most popular mods, Koko wants to quit because this place has started rotting from the inside out.

 

Not sure this place can be saved, but if it can, something really needs to be damn soon

[ENMaker]

I disagree. On the point with Dae and Resonator, there were a lot of people involved in it and it lasted about half an hour. No harm was done to anyone, it's not like Resonator left the site or took offence to it because it was really a harmless thing, it didn't mock the content of the post or the person who had posted it/ Really I can't explain why it took off at all but it was funny in the moment and people went with it. If the person who was apparently the victim didn't think he was being harassed I don't think you're in any real position to tell him or us that he was and should feel persecuted or victimised.

 

Klav was a cunt to a lot of people over a prolonged time, he wasn't banned for one particular instance of this cuntishness and I'm fairly sure he'd have received warns regardless of who his conduct was directed towards but I can't prove that or be certain of it, and if he did get away with abusing newer members then that of course should not be happening but it's an issue of moderation rather than this veteran dominance you perceive.

 

It's a normal thing on any forum that certain people with higher post counts will have an inflated self-view or think that their opinions hold more value by virtue of having a larger virtual penis but I really haven't seen anyone here exhibit that bar Klav and... I can't really think of anyone else to do it consistently. It does happen occasionally that people with higher post counts will back each other up or take the same side in an argument or whatever but I mean they've been here longer so likely they have developed friendships or at least gotten to know the people that have been around the same amount of time, it doesn't indicate a superiority complex or that they value newer members opinions less than their own. And yes, if mods and members who have been here together for a long while are also friends they may get away with things newer members would not, but there is also a general leniency on newer members as people understand that they are new. Not something unique to this site either, there are forums far more hostile than this which really is not hostile at all.

 

Miscellaneous is not a cancer, if you're going to say that you'd want to be giving specific examples of fads that got out of hand rather than vaguely alluding to the fact that some did so I've not much to say on that. This has ended up less focused than your post but it's a general response.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Were you here before Misc? I was. And no it wouldn't change sheet.

Don't you realize many new members get better known BECAUSE of Misc?

[evilfusion]

It really is no secret that long-time members get significantly more lenience. It was always that way. It will be like that almost everywhere, especially when it comes to sites or businesses. It's an interesting phenomenon in its own right.

 

The simple reason why newcomers cannot get away with the same thing is as simple and straightforward as why older ones can - Newcomers, especially VERY recent joining individuals, could very well be deliberate trolls looking for amusement. They COULD just be a very new person with minimal social skills (I was like that many years ago), but it's more likely that they're a troll and only made an account to cause trouble. That's why newcomers that exhibit harassing behavior are all but permabanned on the spot.

 

Older members are usually OVERLY comfortable with the status quo, which can lead to outbursts that reflect badly on them, but because they are consistent and otherwise productive members, giving them a massive amount of punishment akin to how a new account would be dealt with would be incredibly unfair to the older member, who has put in a significant investment of time and energy into frequenting the site, and it's usually unwise to completely dispose of such investment without alienating a lot of members, including them.

 

When I first became a mod, the leniency on older members was infuriating at times, because a handful of them were persistent trolls who would always get slaps on the wrist, and minor bans for their very PERSISTENT misbehaviors. My goal in life for a time was to eradicate them entirely. That way, if they wanted to make alts and whatnot to keep causing trouble, they'd be weeded out very quickly because of how new member troublemakers always got cut down with decisive swiftness.

 

The smartest of them did make alternate accounts, but kept their noses clean for months to regain a semblance of their status, which also meant that they behaved better even when they were identified as "former banned member X", because otherwise the cycle would continue - get cut down, work back up the chain for months, or just get banned at the drop of a hat when a 3 post account.

 

I'm not even sure if I'm on-topic anymore now.

 

But when you cite Klav as an example, you have to keep in mind that Klav had a RIDICULOUS number of confrontations, and not just arguments, but also several incidents that crossed a line and couldn't be ignored, long-time member or not. So many that the mod team evidently approached him numerous, numerous times in addition to penalties.

 

Now if you're noting the difference between rudeness towards older members and rudeness towards new members...actually, it's treated more or less the same, at least by me. I have the slight advantage of almost never being around the scene to witness any notable incidents in a timely fashion. I'm also usually confident most older members have a thicker skin than newbies, so yes, it would be easier to dismiss those little incidents. Assuming they're LITTLE incidents and not full-fledged flame wars.

 

I will note that pushing two older members together in a conflict is usually a bigger problem (to a degree) because it has a greater LONG TERM effect on the environment. If Member A and Member B despise one another, but frequently end up in the same topics and have conflicting viewpoints, and one of them lashes out or whatever, it leaves a mark of sorts. Member A and B are more likely to lash out at each other again in the future, because of the lingering hostility of their last confrontation. They also usually know what sensitive subjects to target in the other, which makes incidents escalate more quickly. Sometimes, it's difficult to be sure whether it's just one of them venting something that's built up over time (and not indicative of their quality as a member), or it's something that's been layered atop numerous wounds and therefore more infected.

 

...I don't remember whether I had a point with this post anymore...I'm ending it here, sorry.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

stuff

If nothing else, it is an interesting case study.

 

And honestly, calling for misc to be removed because trouble starts there is silly. If that were grounds for removing a section, TCG would be gone. Yes, misc causes drama. TCG causes legitimate flame wars.

 

Of course, I am not saying to remove TCG, because that would be ridiculous. I am just using it as an example of why scapegoating misc is absurd.

[Simping For Hina]

I am getting slaps on the butt by Nai and Aix all the time. My warning points make me feel naughty.

 

Every forum causes trouble, and the veteran dominance is because the amount of active users here are pretty much vets. We are hardly an active forum anyways.