Expelsword Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Are there any broken or powerful loops with this card or is it just random support ? 2 GatewaySummon X Samurai4 Counters{Search KizanSummon} x3Search GrandmasterSummon On top of the other possible spam plays they can make, this is a very lethal addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 I'm just fangasaming over realizing Sam's have a out to the Ariadne lock if chain effect goes thru :O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeartic Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 1. People are complaining about that counter fairy pendulum being cancer.2. No it's not "we don't want to see bad decks get relevancy" so the assumptions can stop here.3. You can literally go from making a basic shien play to making 3 and more with this card, maybe if this thread read the card more closely you'd realize it can recycle from the grave. That with combination with Dojo (or whatever the six sam card that lets you summon based on the number of counters is). I'll compromise tho, 1 and MAYBE 2 gateway and see what happens from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 1. People are complaining about that counter fairy pendulum being cancer.2. No it's not "we don't want to see bad decks get relevancy" so the assumptions can stop here.3. You can literally go from making a basic shien play to making 3 and more with this card, maybe if this thread read the card more closely you'd realize it can recycle from the grave. That with combination with Dojo (or whatever the six sam card that lets you summon based on the number of counters is). I'll compromise tho, 1 and MAYBE 2 gateway and see what happens from there.Multiple Shi-en is bad though. You want to end with Beast Shi-En, Rafflesia Shi-En or Shogun Shien I think TCG letting up some of these outdated Archetypal cards would make the format more enjoyable. But I agree, I don't think even OCG should have three gateway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeartic Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Multiple Shi-en is bad though. You want to end with Beast Shi-En, Rafflesia Shi-En or Shogun ShienThis is true, although I was only using that as an example. The fields you mentioned are much more "cancer". Point is, effortless lockdown for little effort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 This is true, although I was only using that as an example. The fields you mentioned are much more "cancer". Point is, effortless lockdown for little effortThey each have their weakness. (Talking OCG cause that's where this is relevant) Exciton kills all three Notice kills the non Shogun Field Farfa Kills the Rafflesia field..hell BA in general kill the fields. Monarchs Mega Caius your Shi-En its over (just the Meta relevant ones here) The true deadliest field I've ever seen was Shock, Shi-En, Shogun, but that's hard to do even with double gateway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Βyakuya Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 This card just gives me salt no matter how much I look at it. And no matter how I look at it, it's just finite +1s out of nowhere. I'm not caring too much about metagame relevance here, but consistently getting Shien materials or field presence with Gateway is simply too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 Any deck that can "tech" exodia is cancerYou must enjoy getting Dominioned and Zaborged>Exodia MonarchsAside from Monarch's selective milling, that sounds.... Counterproductive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 >Exodia MonarchsAside from Monarch's selective milling, that sounds.... Counterproductive.Run Trade in and the Envoys and you can easily draw through your deck in one turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-kyo- Posted November 17, 2015 Report Share Posted November 17, 2015 well im for the side that wants it at 1,i mean it cant be that bad can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitor Posted November 18, 2015 Report Share Posted November 18, 2015 The thing is, 1 Gateway is almost never an autowin against anything close to meta. It puts you in a fairly good position sure, especially if your opponent doesn't really have an out to it. MST (let's not kid ourselves). So 1 gateway is very very difficult to actually break with an opening hand, and Sams burn through advantage faster than Wall Street Stock Traders on October 24, 1929. So smart jokes aside, breaking Gateway with...well...only 1 Gateway is like trying to force the Wind-Up loop with only 1 Carrier. Sure it's possible, but it's definitely not common, and even less so optimal. This thing can come back to 1 no problem. SS 2 search 1 turn 1 is essentially a -2 in it of itself anyway. Synchro Summon plus splash the thing you searched too? Ok...that's still technically a -1, and you needed to use the thing you searched in order to do that. "But it's a 3 card Shi-en lock!" and? Even without gateway it's still a 3 card lock....you just don't have the option of putting in 1 card to sub as an extra copy of the piece you're missing. Now at 2 this gets a bit more crazy, but still nothing absolutely absurd. The fact of the matter is this is broken as funk support for a weak as sheet archetype in one of the most power-hungry formats we've seen in awhile. A massive positive is more or less offset by a massive negative in a format with practically NO negatives. I don't see that as "broken". I see that as "keeping up." "But when everything is nerfed this will be a huge problem!"Wow! You're right again hypothetical audience member! But what do we have on a roughly 3 month basis? That's right...the Limit Regulation. If the format gets nerfed, so should the broken sheet. But if the format is strong, why the hell DON'T you give some power to the struggling archetypes? They need it to compete. Any argument against that is basically saying, "If the format goes south this will be too stronk so for now you can't play this deck sorry try again next year." If the format slows down, all you have to do...and get ready for this cuz it's pretty complicated....is...TA-DA....re-ban it / reduce its count to stay in line with the power of the format. People forget that's ACTUALLY what the list is for. It's not a permanent Yes or No. It's not a slow, progressive testing phase. funk no. YuGiOh changes in an INSTANT upon a powershift. The regulation SHOULD have a sheet load of changes every list, so that some weaker decks have a chance to keep being played. It won't slow down the format, but it will add variety to it. There are 2 ways to fill a power creep: Either nerf the sheet out of the other side to bring them back down to your level...or bring yourself up to the point where you can at least graze them; aka meeting them halfway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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