Wanting tips on how to avoid writng Mary Sues and Gary Stus

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

I often see parody fanfiction bashing them, but yet its hard to tell what exactly to avoid. Particularly when I suspect parody characters are often exagerted well beyond what readers dislike.

 

Optionally, you can read my fanfctions and give me feedback about this, but only if you want to. Feel free to reply without doing so.

 

edit: Yes I'm feeling a little worried about this.

 

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/321335-argent-the-fox-duelist-a-yu-gi-oh-sonic-x-crossover/

 

https://www.fanfiction.net/~ihatesnatchsteal

[The Warden]

The basic idea of making a character is this: Make them human. They don't HAVE to be the best at everything. They don't HAVE to be liked by everyone around them. A Sue/Stu is basically a human without any flaws, beyond the incredibly superficial ones.

 

It's also good to justify why they're good at what they do, such as why someone could be loved by everyone. Maybe they just have a sparkling personality and a good deal of charisma, allowing them to gel with everyone easily. If someone is good at a sport, maybe they just have a talent for it, or they trained their ass off to get there. Maybe both.

 

Long story short, the key to building a good character is to make them realistic, rather than an idealized idea of what a person should be. And that you should at least justify them and their actions. Justifying sheet helps make a character become more human and identifiable, as you can't really justify a Sue/Stu. That's the key different between them and a good character. A good character doesn't have to be perfect to be likeable, or hated if the intent is for them to be hated. Even with exaggerated qualities a character can still be good.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

 A Sue/Stu is basically a human without any flaws, beyond the incredibly superficial ones.

I'd like to expand on this point. I see it often that people make characters with flaws that, overall, don't matter. And that's not a bad thing unless it's all there is. People all have some thing/things that really can affect them and/or people around them negatively.

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

The basic idea of making a character is this: Make them human. They don't HAVE to be the best at everything. They don't HAVE to be liked by everyone around them. A Sue/Stu is basically a human without any flaws, beyond the incredibly superficial ones.

 

It's also good to justify why they're good at what they do, such as why someone could be loved by everyone. Maybe they just have a sparkling personality and a good deal of charisma, allowing them to gel with everyone easily. If someone is good at a sport, maybe they just have a talent for it, or they trained their ass off to get there. Maybe both.

 

Long story short, the key to building a good character is to make them realistic, rather than an idealized idea of what a person should be. And that you should at least justify them and their actions. Justifying s*** helps make a character become more human and identifiable, as you can't really justify a Sue/Stu. That's the key different between them and a good character. A good character doesn't have to be perfect to be likeable, or hated if the intent is for them to be hated. Even with exaggerated qualities a character can still be good.

Its funny that you said "make them human" and for a split second I thought you meant it in terms of species, silly me. My next question is this: is it possible for a character to have a strong showing at first but not be doomed to be too perfect?

 

For example, in this story

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/321335-argent-the-fox-duelist-a-yu-gi-oh-sonic-x-crossover/

 

My OC defeats a robot that is roughly equivalent to a power rangers or sailor moon "monster of the week" without help. I was planning on things being harder for him next chapter.

 

edit: I don't always give my characters a ton of backstory, so I should try to make them "human" as I go?

[The Warden]

I'd like to expand on this point. I see it often that people make characters with flaws that, overall, don't matter. And that's not a bad thing unless it's all there is. People all have some thing/things that really can affect them and/or people around them negatively.

 

It's what I meant by superficial flaws. They're flaws that are tacked on to make it seem like there is something wrong with the character, when really it doesn't affect them or anyone else in the slightest. It was parodied in the webcomic Ensign Sue Must Die, where, her deep dark flaw was that her foot was asleep.

 

Any flaws attached to a Sue will almost always be incredibly superficial, and added only to make it seem as if the character isn't a Sue. It's a flimsy disguise.

 

 

Its funny that you said "make them human" and for a split second I thought you meant it in terms of species, silly me. My next question is this: is it possible for a character to have a strong showing at first but not be doomed to be too perfect?

 

For example, in this story

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/321335-argent-the-fox-duelist-a-yu-gi-oh-sonic-x-crossover/

 

My OC defeats a robot that is roughly equivalent to a power rangers or sailor moon "monster of the week" with ease. I was planning on things being harder for him next chapter.

 

Don't be afraid to make a character appear competent. It's okay for a character to be good or even better than some people at what they do. It's when you make them hypercompetent when it becomes a problem, since then the list of what they're NOT good at dwindles considerably. I'll repeat again, it is OKAY for a character to be competent at what they do. Just don't make them way too good/lucky that they never fail ever, because it is also okay for characters to funk up on occasion.

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

Don't be afraid to make a character appear competent. It's okay for a character to be good or even better than some people at what they do. It's when you make them hypercompetent when it becomes a problem, since then the list of what they're NOT good at dwindles considerably. I'll repeat again, it is OKAY for a character to be competent at what they do. Just don't make them way too good/lucky that they never fail ever, because it is also okay for characters to f*** up on occasion.

Thanks, I'm sure no one likes a Chris Thorndike either [the other end of the extreme]

[The Warden]

If you want the gist of it, I'll tell you the ultimate secret of character design: Use common sense.

 

Yes, it is LITERALLY that easy. Just be sensible about how you create a character. Use a little restraint and apply a good deal of thought into them, but don't go nuts. What's important to a character's growth is that there needs to be enough groundwork to have a stable structure, but there's still enough room for them too grow and evolve as a character.

 

Also, you don't need to apply so many flaws that a character is an angsty mess. Hell, some of the most enjoyable characters in media have little to no flaws at all. I'll cite MLP: FiM's Pinkie Pie for that. She is an incredibly upbeat, sweet, kind, and loving pony. She can also break the forth wall and be unusually perceptive at times. Her flaws fall into her being naive and downright stupid at times. (And also manic depressive, but let's not go there.) Despite a given lack of flaws, she's a character liked by a lot of people because she's enjoyable, and doesn't have an ego bogging her down. She is pretty much the essence of fun, and that's just plain enjoyable. She may not be riddled with flaws, but it doesn't make her a Sue because of it.

 

The key is applying common sense to help balance the traits of a character. They're only seeds in the start, and you must nurture their growth through smart planning and decision making.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Broken I only have so many likes.

 

Also I'd like to say when I make characters I tend to just go with what feels right. It's not a thing I can teach but basically...while writing you might feel like "Hmm what if ____?" Don't suppress this, it often can lead to a nice little detail and/or flaw that makes them more real.

[VCR_CAT]

I can break it down to a few simple steps that should help get you started:

1. The Rule of Normal: Try avoiding characteristics or features that explicitly make them "Special". For the most part, characters are just regular people, so try to make them as such as much as possible.

2. People are Flawed: Character Flaws are super important. Nobody is perfect, and neither should your character be! Work with real flaws, and use these as points to develop your character!

3. They're not The Best: Don't try to make your character explicitly stand out in any ways besides being well-written and likable characters.

4. Don't Try Too Hard: Everyone wants their character to be really special and popular and the best (mentioned previously). Don't try for this. Try to make your character as well-written, believable, and relate-able as possible. If your character is well-done, then they will be liked and popular due to being well-done characters.

5. The Rule of Kewl: Everyone wants their character to be cool. You can have a character that has the "Cool dude" personality and all that, but do not go to any extra lengths to try and give your character the coolest gear/abilities/looks/etc. Work with your character's flaws and your intended personality and focus on those instead.

6. Don't Try to do Everything: Oftentimes people will try to make their characters a "Jack of all trades" who are "Good at everything". Don't. People are naturally good at some things, and naturally really bad at other things. Focus on what you want your character to be good at, and what you want them to be bad at. Find a niche for them that may not be filled by anyone else; give them a role that makes them a part of a team, not the team itself.

7. Likability: Likable characters are great. Naturally, even the most likable people will meet those that do not rub the right way with them or vice versa. Mary/Gary Sue/Stus are often defined as loved by everyone unconditionally (among other things). Try your best to avoid this; it IS possible to make likable characters with redeeming qualities that just simply do not like certain kinds of people or certain kinds of people don't like them. Work this to your advantage; this can make for some great writing.

 

Finally, knowing exactly what a Sue character is will help you in avoiding them. Sometimes the best solution is not knowing what to strive for, but knowing what to avoid. This will also help in testing your character to know if you've done anything wrong and where you might need to work on stuff: http://www.springhole.net/writing/marysue.htm

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

More questions:

 

Is loosely basing characters on your self really that bad of a thing to do if they don't become too idealized as result? I would think that real authors, or at least self aware ones, have flaws that would make for good characters.

 

Also, I noticed some questions on that test about making a character based on how you want to look/be.

 

I will admit that the real me is overweight. However is it wrong for me to make a character loosely named after & based on me who has a healthy weight? By that I do NOT mean that they would star in a male photos version of playboy magazine. I just mean that they'd look normal.

[VCR_CAT]

Generally avoid self-inserts. As characters they tend to be lazy and imply a lot more ego than anything. Taking inspiration from your experiences is one thing, but I would strongly encourage you to not write self-inserts, even semi-self-inserts. I also encourage you to write characters you may not be comfortable writing or are outside your realm of experience; it helps you grow as a writer and can lead to some fantastic characters.

[I Hate Snatch Steal]

Yes, self inserts can turn into badly written stories. I've seen it happen. However there are a few good self inserts out there if you look, like this one:

Adventures in Sonic '06

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7738158/1/

 

The fact that its a self insert actually helps the plot develop.

 

edit: What bothers me about this is that people tend to go beyond opinion and say things like "Don't write self inserts" and "Self inserts are always bad" like its indisputable fact.

 

Some story ideas are tried by many different writers and not all attempts are the same quality and not all attempts please everyone. For example, I've read at least 10 different versions of how Sonic and Tails met, and some of them were bad but no one says "Don't write about how Sonic and Tails met" just because its a relatively common story idea and some of the attempts are bad quality. Why can't people see that with self inserts and stop judging those "books" by their covers to the point of calling it fact?

 

I get that some story ideas don't appeal to some people: I personally don't ever want to read a Sonic the Hedgehog high school AU, but there are a lot of them so some people must enjoy the idea, but you don't see me saying "don't write high school AUs, they're always bad ect ect"