Father of victim shot on live T.V. meets with Republican ongressman on guns.

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/23/politics/parker-goodlatte-guns-meeting/?iid=ob_homepage_deskrecommended_pool&iref=obnetwork

 

This pisses me off so much.The fact that this jabroni Republican met with a grieving father and STILL wouldn't change his position on guns angers me. Not just him. The paranoid, heartless bastards of the gun rights movements wouldn't either. No, I'm not saying EVERYONE is like that, but, I'm baffled as to how so many people can oppose gun control given the state of the country. I admit, I don't know what we need, but we need something. Anything to curb the rampant gun violence.

 

I hate the Republican Party. I hate the NRA and the gun lobby. I hate a good portion of the gun rights movement. It's obvious why(although for the first one, it goes beyond this). In regards to what I said earlier about the paranoid people, "WAAAH WAAAH DON'T TAKE MY GUNS." Wake up, morons. They aren't coming for your guns. Unless you're a criminal, of course. Seriously, a law-biding gun owner should not have to worry because very few, if anyone, are trying to outright ban guns. I think most people just want guns out of the hands of domestic abusers, felons, and the mentally ill. Apparently, for these people, it's too much to ask.

 
I mean, we got decent gun owners in America, but it's becoming pretty obvious we have a ton of these folk as well. I will say this, in addition to tougher gun laws, any existing ones(Yes, I'm pretty sure there are existing ones. Otherwise, felons would be allowed to have guns.) needs to be enforced too. Both need to happen. I know I'm probably bringing this up for the umpteenth time, but it's such an important issue and I really needed to vent. I just want some progress on this issue. Even the smallest progress is still progress. Although, in my case, I also want irresponsible/negligent gun owners held accountable in criminal and/or civil court in the case of accidents.

 

Now, back to the article. I can commend him for trying but, when it comes to most Republicans, even a family member of a gun violence victim is probably not going to persuade them. At least he tried, though.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/23/politics/parker-goodlatte-guns-meeting/?iid=ob_homepage_deskrecommended_pool&iref=obnetwork

 

This pisses me off so much.The fact that this a****** Republican met with a grieving father and STILL wouldn't change his position on guns angers me. Not just him. The paranoid, heartless bastards of the gun rights movements wouldn't either. No, I'm not saying EVERYONE is like that, but, I'm baffled as to how so many people can oppose gun control given the state of the country. I admit, I don't know what we need, but we need something. Anything to curb the rampant gun violence.

 

I hate the Republican Party. I hate the NRA and the gun lobby. I hate a good portion of the gun rights movement. It's obvious why(although for the first one, it goes beyond this). In regards to what I said earlier about the paranoid people, "WAAAH WAAAH DON'T TAKE MY GUNS." Wake up, morons. They aren't coming for your guns. Unless you're a criminal, of course. Seriously, a law-biding gun owner should not have to worry because very few, if anyone, are trying to outright ban guns. I think most people just want guns out of the hands of domestic abusers, felons, and the mentally ill. Apparently, for these people, it's too much to ask.

 

I mean, we got decent gun owners in America, but it's becoming pretty obvious we have a ton of these folk as well. I will say this, in addition to tougher gun laws, any existing ones(Yes, I'm pretty sure there are existing ones. Otherwise, felons would be allowed to have guns.) needs to be enforced too. Both need to happen. I know I'm probably bringing this up for the umpteenth time, but it's such an important issue and I really needed to vent. I just want some progress on this issue. Even the smallest progress is still progress. Although, in my case, I also want irresponsible/negligent gun owners held accountable in criminal and/or civil court in the case of accidents.

 

Now, back to the article. I can commend him for trying but, when it comes to most Republicans, even a family member of a gun violence victim is probably not going to persuade them. At least he tried, though.

Using emotion to sway an argument is the worst way to go about it. Regardless of whether he is right or wrong, that congressman shouldn't have to change his position just because a victim came to him. That's like bringing a victim of a robbery in order to convince a congressman they need to do something about robbery. The NRA is simply defending their rights, whether they should exist or not. It's not a whiny crybaby response like you said (Unless you're Alex Jones). It is simply the general idea of what guns are and how they should be looked at. There are many valid arguments both for and against them and the proper case is how we learn to compromise between the two. Bringing a victim doesn't help.

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

Using emotion to sway an argument is the worst way to go about it. Regardless of whether he is right or wrong, that congressman shouldn't have to change his position just because a victim came to him. That's like bringing a victim of a robbery in order to convince a congressman they need to do something about robbery. The NRA is simply defending their rights, whether they should exist or not. It's not a whiny crybaby response like you said (Unless you're Alex Jones). It is simply the general idea of what guns are and how they should be looked at. There are many valid arguments both for and against them and the proper case is how we learn to compromise between the two. Bringing a victim doesn't help.

In a perfect world, there would actually be a compromise between the two. That's never gonna happen though.

 

And I do see where you are coming from. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm really sick of gun violence.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

In a perfect world, there would actually be a compromise between the two. That's never gonna happen though.

 

And I do see where you are coming from. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm really sick of gun violence.

I'm sick of violence period.

 

-unless in video gaems

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

I'm sick of violence period.

 

-unless in video gaems

I will say this; Gun control is needed, but it's not the only thing needed.

 

Maybe that's why I'm so angry. At least pass some mental health legislaton or something.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

I will say this; Gun control is needed, but it's not the only thing needed.

 

Maybe that's why I'm so angry. At least pass some mental health legislaton or something.

Republicans want Mental Health Legislation, Democrats want Gun Control. Neither will just shake hands. So honestly F*ck both Dems and Reps

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

Republicans want Mental Health Legislation, Democrats want Gun Control. Neither will just shake hands. So honestly F*ck both Dems and Reps

Of course they won't. They're pretty much sworn enemies.

 

Congress is so divided it's not even funny.

 

Although, looking back on it, I guess I wasn't thinking straight when I posted this. At least, for some of it. I really do dislike those groups, though.

[epicmemesbro]

I'm surprised they won't bother to enforce existing laws, even the criminal background check. Although this additional legislation is much too vague, common amongst gun control activists. I've noticed that some who wish to impose stricter gun laws tend to use emotion to sway the audience, much like the unscrupulous media rather than appealing in a more rational manner. Whatever they wish to do I hope they don't wish to impose the same flawed laws California has. Their laws only seemed to affect law abiding citizens rather than criminal. Everyday I see stories of innocent citizens dying at the hands of gang violence such as this one:

 

http://homicide.latimes.com/post/man-sentenced-thomas-dunbar/

 

National media never really shows these, don't they? That's because in most of gang related incidents weapons where obtained illegally, something that wouldn't benefit those who want to promote a certain political ideology. No one hears the flaws of the zero tolerance policies. These policies only make at-risk youth feel like a criminal in a prison. I feel as though some of these gun control policies unfairly target people of color. I wonder if they can pass gun control legislation without suffering the same fate as California.

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

I'm surprised they won't bother to enforce existing laws, even the criminal background check. Although this additional legislation is much too vague, common amongst gun control activists. I've noticed that some who wish to impose stricter gun laws tend to use emotion to sway the audience, much like the unscrupulous media rather than appealing in a more rational manner. Whatever they wish to do I hope they don't wish to impose the same flawed laws California has. Their laws only seemed to affect law abiding citizens rather than criminal. Everyday I see stories of innocent citizens dying at the hands of gang violence such as this one:

 

http://homicide.latimes.com/post/man-sentenced-thomas-dunbar/

 

National media never really shows these, don't they? That's because in most of gang related incidents weapons where obtained illegally, something that wouldn't benefit those who want to promote a certain political ideology. No one hears the flaws of the zero tolerance policies. These policies only make at-risk youth feel like a criminal in a prison. I feel as though some of these gun control policies unfairly target people of color. I wonder if they can pass gun control legislation without suffering the same fate as California.

I mean, quite a few of those people lost someome due to gun violence, so it is hard for me to fault them. I do support gun control, but not to a point where guns are completely banned. It's just that there are people that have guns that shouldn't have guns. Besides, you'd never get rid of all the guns in America.

 

But yeah, a majority of America's gun violence is linked to gangs, I feel. Just look at Chicago.

 

Also, I'm curious, what do you think should be done to curb gun violence?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Not true, you guys want to take away my hunting rifle. No sane person would oppose health checks even multiple times a year. 

 

Hillary 

 

"Recently, at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire, she was asked about adopting a federal gun control program like the one enacted in Australia in 1996, which banned automatic and semi-automatic rifles and shotguns and mandated the buyback of those already present. Some 650,000 guns were taken from citizens and destroyed."

 

This is what scares 2nd rights activists 

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

Not true, you guys want to take away my hunting rifle. No sane person would oppose health checks even multiple times a year.

 

Hillary

 

"Recently, at a town hall meeting in New Hampshire, she was asked about adopting a federal gun control program like the one enacted in Australia in 1996, which banned automatic and semi-automatic rifles and shotguns and mandated the buyback of those already present. Some 650,000 guns were taken from citizens and destroyed."

 

This is what scares 2nd rights activists

I don't think America will ever adopt Australian style gun control though. Your post did remind me of the Federal Weapons Assault Ban that lasted 10 years. It had a lot of loopholes IIRC.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I don't think America will ever adopt Australian style gun control though. Your post did remind me of the Federal Weapons Assault Ban that lasted 10 years. It had a lot of loopholes IIRC.

Funny, New Zealand didn't adopt that program and it's violence decreased too. 

 

You know what does need to be done?

 

Make sure a three year old can fire it's dad's gun by accident (fingerprints)

 

Make sure a lunatic like James Holmes can't get weapons

 

Make sure that funking drug cartels don't get their hands on rocket launchers

 

but nope, let all just focus on Rifles cause Democratic logic

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

Funny, New Zealand didn't adopt that program and it's violence decreased too.

 

You know what does need to be done?

 

Make sure a three year old can fire it's dad's gun by accident (fingerprints)

 

Make sure a lunatic like James Holmes can't get weapons

 

Make sure that f***ing drug cartels don't get their hands on rocket launchers

 

but nope, let all just focus on Rifles cause Democratic logic

Handguns are used in most gun homicides. So, I get your point.

[a bad post]

As someone who knows quite a few people in law enforcement I can tell you right now it's not the gun laws themselves that are the problem it's the enforcement of them. I've heard so many stories about how a lot of prosecutors will drop the case if they're not 100% certain they can win, and even they I've heard of prosecutors dropping the charges anyways.

[Halubaris Maphotika]

As someone who knows quite a few people in law enforcement I can tell you right now it's not the gun laws themselves that are the problem it's the enforcement of them. I've heard so many stories about how a lot of prosecutors will drop the case if they're not 100% certain they can win, and even they I've heard of prosecutors dropping the charges anyways.

I concur, there is a lot more to this issue than just the guns themselves.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I concur, there is a lot more to this issue than just the guns themselves.

So why are all the people just being like "ASSAULT WEAPONS. BAN THEM. PROBLEM SOLVED"

[Halubaris Maphotika]

So why are all the people just being like "ASSAULT WEAPONS. BAN THEM. PROBLEM SOLVED"

Because it's easy to point a finger, but it is hard to lend a hand.

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

I concur, there is a lot more to this issue than just the guns themselves.

Definitely. The guns are just one of the issues. I could name a couple others.

[a bad post]

So why are all the people just being like "ASSAULT WEAPONS. BAN THEM. PROBLEM SOLVED"

Because after someone is arrested most people don't really follow what goes on in the courtroom. It's where most of the anti-cop sentiment comes from. People don't fully understand, or rather, they're not fully aware of how the legal system works. This kind of in part stems from the fact that more people than you would think believe that cop shows like CSI or Law & Order accurately portray police work, when in fact they vastly speed up the process and also assume that all people involved in law enforcement act for selfless motives. 

 

It really does make sense though when you think about. If gun violence happens the logical progression is that gun laws are not keeping up, and that they need to be made more strict. This works, but only if prosecutors are willing to go through with the charges. The biggest problem with this is it tends to lead to disproportionate sentences like when laws were being passed during the anti-drug crusade years which have now caused massive problems in the legal system, and terrible overcrowding in prisons. 

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

Because after someone is arrested most people don't really follow what goes on in the courtroom. It's where most of the anti-cop sentiment comes from. People don't fully understand, or rather, they're not fully aware of how the legal system works. This kind of in part stems from the fact that more people than you would think believe that cop shows like CSI or Law & Order accurately portray police work, when in fact they vastly speed up the process and also assume that all people involved in law enforcement act for selfless motives.

 

It really does make sense though when you think about. If gun violence happens the logical progression is that gun laws are not keeping up, and that they need to be made more strict. This works, but only if prosecutors are willing to go through with the charges. The biggest problem with this is it tends to lead to disproportionate sentences like when laws were being passed during the anti-drug crusade years which have now caused massive problems in the legal system, and terrible overcrowding in prisons.

Interesting insight. Never really thought about that. I mean, I never assumed the problem would magically go away even with tougher laws, but still.

 

And yeah, gonna have to agree with the drug thing, but that's a whole different story.

[Aerion Brightflame]

I mean the reason people suggest fire-arms restrictions are in part because it's the easier solution. The problem goes far beyond poor mental health services (Just to say that's not entirely accurate to lay blame on it. The UK has an awful mental health service, like it's laughably bad, but we don't have these kinds of incidents anywhere near as often, so the blame has to lie with the guns somewhat.), it's clearly a societal problem at this point. There is something about your society, the way it's progressed or evolved that makes these sorts of things seem logical, or make gun violence the logical progression to certain events. 

 

And that's the one thing you don't want to happen, because it's bloody hard to change. You are talking about changing things from the ground up, a process that takes decades to fix. And will cost a lot of money, and will have to be continued across multiple different goverments. It's literally the worst thing that can be the root cause of gun violence. 

 

I also want to highlight - There's a difference between gang related crime and the kinds of mass shootings or accidents that get press coverage. For the most part, gang violence is self contained to gang members, not citizens. Unless said citizen is either accidentally killed like the old man in that article, directly involving himself into the gangs business, or because the specific members are insane (In the sense they kill whole families to send messages, or kill you for looking at them funny). If it's self contained to gang violence, no one gives a sheet because it's expected to happen, given it's basically war. The times it does get press coverage are when citizens die. 

 

But these mass shootings or incidents don't have the same sense of easy logic behind them. They are unexpected, or against what is expected. That's the heart of the issue; It's directly compromising the safety of people who in a just world wouldn't need that to happen. There lives shouldn't be at risk because someone had a bad day, or they had mental issues, or want to send some kind of message to the global press, and had access to the firearms to press this issue. 

 

Whilst I hate to quote movies in serious arguments it's actually summed up pretty accurately in The Dark Knight 'Nobody panics when things go according to plan, even if the plan is horrifying. If I say a drug dealer or a gangbanger will get shot,  nobody will panic. Because it's all part of the plan'. People expect gangers, or drug dealers to die. They don't expect schools to be shot up, or parents to be killed by there children by mistake, or people to be shot over minor mundane incidents that could be solved by words. It's these incidents people want to solve, which in part get solved by fire arm restrictions, because these are the kinds of people who aren't going to go to the black market just to get a gun in a large number of cases. 

 

I imagine even just reducing the amount of fire-arms in the country would help a little, because honestly what nation that's not actively a war zone needs more guns than people? Like seriously, why on earth do you need that many fire arms? 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I imagine even just reducing the amount of fire-arms in the country would help a little, because honestly what nation that's not actively a war zone needs more guns than people? Like seriously, why on earth do you need that many fire arms? 

Agree with the rest.

 

We don't. But if I want a hunting rifle, that I bought legally, and occasionally use to sharp-shoot (I don't even hunt, because I dislike killing), what's the harm? Should some frustrated persona murdering children ruin one of the few thing that I can do to give me a sense of peace and comfort. Coronary to common ideas, taking your time and getting a good shot is a great patience exercise and much like golf makes you concentrate like nothing else

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

To me it's something like

1000 people enjoying using guns in a sporting way is not worth 1 person using guns in a bad way. But that's just a general statement really.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Agree with the rest.

 

We don't. But if I want a hunting rifle, that I bought legally, and occasionally use to sharp-shoot (I don't even hunt, because I dislike killing), what's the harm? Should some frustrated persona murdering children ruin one of the few thing that I can do to give me a sense of peace and comfort. Coronary to common ideas, taking your time and getting a good shot is a great patience exercise and much like golf makes you concentrate like nothing else

 

Yes, but that's a Hunting Rifle. That's specifically used for a recreational activity, hunting. That's sort of thing is fine. Just like firing ranges, it's a social activity. That can be controlled, and managed and restricted fairly. 

 

But it still doesn't explain or justify why you need more guns that people, because I imagine a significant portion of those aren't used recreationally. I can't imagine people buy hand guns with the intention or hunting, and if you intend to use it on firing ranges, why not just have the guns be rent able from the ranges only?

 

Like, even if you remove half the guns in America, you are still the country with the second highest number of guns per 100 people in the world (Of a group of 178 surveyed countries). That's how ludicrous it is, that you have more than twice as many guns person person than 176 other sovereign states in the world. (For those interested the one country that would have higher would be Serbia, a country with a population 46 times smaller than yours). 

 

That's according to this Wikipedia page;https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

And yes, I know Wikipedia isn't a source, but it does give the source of the data iirc 

 

Like imagine if we did this by the raw number of fire arms, imagine how silly the numbers could end up being then. 

 

Besides, if you have to lose your ability to hunt with a Hunting Rifle so children and such don't get gunned down in schools, so be it. 

[Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP]

Heck, I don't even get why we need so many guns. All I can think off is the paranoia instilled by the gun lobby(there's a bad guy around every corner, the government is coming for your guns, etc) but that doesn't fully explain it.