Ryusei the Morning Star Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Target 1 monster your opponent controls; take control of it until the End Phase. Possibly one of oldest staples out there. Major problems is it has no "cost" and no restrictions of what you can do with it. Mind Control has the can't tribute or xyz restriction on it, I was thinking maybe a can't Synchro, XYZ, or attack restriction on it, cause those would technically fit with lore of those not existing at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enguin Enguin Enguin Enguin Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Why bother doing that though, at that point you're just turning it into a crappy Mind Control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Why bother doing that though, at that point you're just turning it into a crappy Mind Control.Shaddolls, Monarchs, it's not crappy it's just not a staple anymore, one more card off the damn list too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enguin Enguin Enguin Enguin Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Shaddolls, Monarchs, it's not crappy it's just not a staple anymore, one more card off the damn list too Monarchs have Stormforth which has the added bonus of being non-targeting and quick-play. Shaddolls can just Mind Control if they really want to do that, and they wouldn't really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Monarchs have Stormforth which has the added bonus of being non-targeting and quick-play. Shaddolls can just Mind Control if they really want to do that, and they wouldn't really.Stormforth means you can't special summon from the extra. There is a specific niche for this card. Also one more card off the list. It's not a shitty mind control by any means imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Of all the "switch control" cards, Change of Heart is the most powerful. It has no cost (Brain Control), no weakness (Snatch Steal), no restriction (Mind Control), and no issue with faceup vs facedown (Mind Control). If you're going to errata a card to unban it, choose Brain Control or Mind Control to do it to. Change of Heart is the original form and should be left alone. Change one of the watered down versions, because they were ALSO too strong and got banned, despite being more fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enguin Enguin Enguin Enguin Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Stormforth means you can't special summon from the extra. There is a specific niche for this card. Also one more card off the list. It's not a shitty mind control by any means imo You mentioned Monarchs specifically and they'd only be using this to steal tribute fodder while they never care about the extra so that's not even a counterpoint. It'd be a crappy Mind Control because it would be basically a Mind Control that limits your options with the monster even moreso. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Of all the "switch control" cards, Change of Heart is the most powerful. It has no cost (Brain Control), no weakness (Snatch Steal), no restriction (Mind Control), and no issue with faceup vs facedown (Mind Control). If you're going to errata a card to unban it, choose Brain Control or Mind Control to do it to. Change of Heart is the original form and should be left alone. Change one of the watered down versions, because they were ALSO too strong and got banned, despite being more fair. Easy way to fix snatch is make the opponent gain LP equal to the monsters attack + not letting the monster attack. That would force you to not let it sit. Fair point, I suppose the same changes could be put on mind control, I chose change since XYZ and Synchro didn't exist at the time of it's making, so we're not really changing it from it's original use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Why not just play Graydles?Oh, right, nobody plays Graydles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 There's very little way to make Control Changing cards fair; they're almost always too powerful or too weak, even with restrictions (See: Mind Control). I say let the concept rot until they find a legitimate way to make it fair. Keep in mind with this one specifically, it was banned before Contact Fusions were a thing, and Brain Control hardly made it a few formats into Synchro, irrc. Its the versatility of it that makes it so utterly powerful; You're not just getting rid of a monster of your choice, you're adding it to your own field. You can use it to attack, you could tribute it for a monster, you could use it as a cost for one of your spells or traps (Enemy controller to essentially kill a monster disregarding any effects on it and steal one more? I dunno what was really around back then). It's essentially a +1 that has no cost at all, and gives you a huge advantage for 1 turn, or the rest of the game if you use it for something or are going to straight up win that turn because of it. Even with Pot of Greed there's still some luck involved; you could get 2 crappy cards and get nowhere. With this, you'll always be able to get exactly what you want. Let's say, hypothetically, this does get an errata or we get a retrain or whatever that doesn't allow Synchros, Xyz, or Attacking. What we have then is a strictly better Soul Exchange, which monarchs already have. You can still use it for fusions (HEROes, Shaddoll, Cyber Mirror Matches, etc), You can still use it for costs (Birdman bounces it to hand and is a free SS, or whatever else is around), even if you use it to tribute you still get your entire battle phase, and it's STILL a free +1 that gets around anti-destruction, can get rid of whatever your opponent has that's immediately threatening, and can guarantee game on virtue of getting rid of whatever your opponent has thats keeping them in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinny Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Of all the "switch control" cards, Change of Heart is the most powerful. It has no cost (Brain Control), no weakness (Snatch Steal), no restriction (Mind Control), and no issue with faceup vs facedown (Mind Control).Nah, Snatch steal is alot better most of the time due to it stealing almost permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(GigaDrillBreaker) Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Nah, Snatch steal is alot better most of the time due to it stealing almost permanently.Being "negated" by MST is a big downside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Just XYZ then? Let synchro be brain control or vice versa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Mind control does both Xyz and Synchro. Its restriction is tributing. And it's still limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Mind control does both Xyz and Synchro. Its restriction is tributing. And it's still limited.We cycle the restrictions: One can XYZ and tribute but not attack and synchro , should be Brain control since the 800 cost and XYZ >Synchro One should synchro and tribute but not xyz, ideally change of heart Snatch should be no attack and opponent gains attack = to monster at SP, problems solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I think you're missing the point. The point was that, despite the lack of xyz and synchros, change of heart was still super powerful. Adding on an attack resstrction and inability to Xyz is not going to fix it at this point. In fact, having all of those limited would be insanely broken. An individual deck that focuses on synchro, xyz, or tributing would suddenly have THREE mind controls that cater to their own use, 2 being the individual stealers with restrictions, the last being snatch steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 I think you're missing the point. The point was that, despite the lack of xyz and synchros, change of heart was still super powerful. Adding on an attack resstrction and inability to Xyz is not going to fix it at this point. In fact, having all of those limited would be insanely broken. An individual deck that focuses on synchro, xyz, or tributing would suddenly have THREE mind controls that cater to their own use, 2 being the individual stealers with restrictions, the last being snatch steal.If a deck can properly utilize three different extra deck colors they deserve some boosts. Now tell me, a super synchro centric deck like Yang Zing, why don't they run Mind Control? Card is at 2. Same with Shaddolls? Should be a no brainer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enguin Enguin Enguin Enguin Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Shaddolls want to be putting their own things in the grave. Not sure about all but definitely a few of the YZ synchros get effects based on using YZs as their materials so there's that. And it's at 1 not 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 In this format, it's a very hard card to use effectively. Xyz Put a wrench in using MC for anything, as you can't use them for Synchros (No Level) or Xyz (Still no level, unless you wanna use some sort of rank-up think on them). Using it against Shaddoll or Nekroz for Synchro Material may be partially effective as long as you have the low level tuners to support it, but overall it's a bad thing to use against like, half the meta. Plus, generally in this day and age, archetypes have much more effective ways to accelerate their own cards. Especially with Norden in NA now. Yes, I know its banned in the OCGland you love, but still.Perhaps I want stuff like that kept out more on principle, but if we ever have a format dominated by a single deck or a very small handful (Unlike now, with many, MANY decks being viable), then their effectiveness goes way up, especially if said decks don't Xyz all too often. In that instance, a deck can plan around using Mind Control on commonly boarded monsters, and then abuse it to its fullest extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Noden is a problem of its own. Tier 0 formats are a problem of their own. It just seems to me you're scapegoating cards that change control for the sins of others or other formats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Noden is a problem of its own. Tier 0 formats are a problem of their own. It just seems to me you're scapegoating cards that change control for the sins of others or other formatsNorden is something that's making them WORSE, since it does all they need controlling cards for on its own.Also, what are you reffering to with Tier 0 Formats? ones with only a few decktypes around? Because those aren't inherently unhealthy. In fact, I know you love tele-DAD, which is...well, one of those formats. And hell, this kind of format is irregular with 5+ viable decks available. Most "normal" formats I can think of have 3~4, which is enough to plan around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Norden is something that's making them WORSE, since it does all they need controlling cards for on its own.Also, what are you reffering to with Tier 0 Formats? ones with only a few decktypes around? Because those aren't inherently unhealthy. In fact, I know you love tele-DAD, which is...well, one of those formats. And hell, this kind of format is irregular with 5+ viable decks available. Most "normal" formats I can think of have 3~4, which is enough to plan around.Tele-DAD is skillful and my fav format so far in the game, doesn't mean it's problemless, Tier 0 would be something like the July OCG format where m&m's were 60+ % of the meta in every tourny and regularly got all 8 spots in top 8. Don't think it's been that "bad" since Goat. Tele-DAD you could fairly easily top with Glad Beast if you knew what you were doing Irrc Noden is bad with the suggest errata's since you can take just about anything fuse into noden with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Tele-DAD is skillful and my fav format so far in the game, doesn't mean it's problemless, Tier 0 would be something like the July OCG format where m&m's were 60+ % of the meta in every tourny and regularly got all 8 spots in top 8. Don't think it's been that "bad" since Goat. Tele-DAD you could fairly easily top with Glad Beast if you knew what you were doing Irrc Noden is bad with the suggest errata's since you can take just about anything fuse into noden with it. I was saying that Instant Fusion + Norden is better than Mind Control (and etc), since it relies on your own cards, not your opponents, so you can ALWAYS do what you need to. Plus there's no real restrictions on it. And yeah, that's not what I was referring to with Little variety in decks. I'm saying ~3 main decks that are very prominent, with a couple things that show up every now and then. Less variety than right now, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted October 12, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Oh, I see. Well I thought you meant cards like Mind Con would only come into effect in a tier 0 format, and was agreeing with you since it did see play cause the top deck was was a r4nk four deck and the much weaker 2nd deck, heroes was also a r4nk deck. If Instant Noden is better than MC and MC is better than these guys and INstant Noden is at three, what can't these get errated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted October 12, 2015 Report Share Posted October 12, 2015 Partially because Norden just came out in TCG. Partially because we're dumb. I do agree with OCG that Norden should be banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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