Beatrice, the Eternal Lady

[Progenitor]

I mean that's assuming Minerva is your only/optimal rank up target.  While in most r4 spam decks that will most likely be the case, there are other situations and other decks that may run Fairy Cheer Girl or Princess Cologne.

 

For example, the fact that this is a RUM target is fantastic for Gem Knights.  You can make Cologne, get a free normal, then rank up cologne into Beatrice to send GK-Fusion, and your combos are all set up, plus you have a decently big 2500 body to help your otk or whatever.

 

I know that's only the case for the vast minority of decks, but it's still prevalent.  I agree with you; ranking up Minerva is a pretty bad idea.  However, ranking up the other two in decks that can make and benefit from them could potentially be a fantastic idea.

[Blake]

I mean that's assuming Minerva is your only/optimal rank up target.  While in most r4 spam decks that will most likely be the case, there are other situations and other decks that may run Fairy Cheer Girl or Princess Cologne.

 

For example, the fact that this is a RUM target is fantastic for Gem Knights.  You can make Cologne, get a free normal, then rank up cologne into Beatrice to send GK-Fusion, and your combos are all set up, plus you have a decently big 2500 body to help your otk or whatever.

 

I know that's only the case for the vast minority of decks, but it's still prevalent.  I agree with you; ranking up Minerva is a pretty bad idea.  However, ranking up the other two in decks that can make and benefit from them could potentially be a fantastic idea.

you can do the same but better with Daigusto Emeral. Cologne is a gimmicky waste of an ED slot with less overall value. Hell, you can revive Zirconia with Emeral.

 

Additionally, Gem-Knights (pure) have very little R4 capability, with the majority of it being based around Rescue Rabbit. Don't say Box of Friends, as Box of Friends gem-knight is unplayable.

 

Gem-Blade would rather make Minerva, and doesn't run G-K Fusion.

 

Fairy Cheer Girl isn't playable, as the only deck that can summon her does not want to.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

 

Astral Force is NOT good with this. 

 

You have to use it on Minerva (TCG/OCG if Chain gets banned) or Shock Master (OCG). The former means you're trying your damndest to set up early, the latter means you're either set up or had Stick-Chair... except the OCG doesn't have full Stick-Chair now.

 

This means it's not great with Shock, only serving to put you an eensy bit farther ahead when already winning, and with Minerva you very likely need to open Astral Force for it to be useful. This means running Extra Copies of Astral Force just threaten dead draws that cost you games (can you imagine opening more than 1 of it? like really), and running 1 copy of Astral Force is just a worse copy of Foolish Burial with more explosion potential. A lot of decks that can use Foolish don't, so why run an even less live version?

 

Not to mention ED devotion. OCG-wise, you already have a standard of...

1 Rafflesia
3 CDI trio 
Other R5s

2 Utopias

1 Shock Bastard

1 Trapeze

 

That's 8/15 already. Not to mention the other R5s, Castel, Dweller, and so on. And Norden. Two slots for Astral Force is absurd.

 

And TCG? Clowns, as a deck, are still best as a Seraph engine, though much worse than it would have been with Chain. This means you hava Amaterasu, Delteros, Ptolemaeus (and Diamond), and Ouroboros to consider. And Norden. 7 slots there. Then Trapeze, Castel, Dire Wolf, Minerva, Dweller, Exciton, King Feral. That leaves 1 slot, and that's better put towards even DRXD, just because of how it combos with Trapeze.

 

Outside of BA, Beatrice is a set-up card. It's not worth running a card you need to open in order to set up moar. Maybe the OCG will play it (if Chain dies), but that's because of the OCG mindet, not because it's a good choice.

1) Flame Mascot + m&m engine can sheet out multiple XYZ's. Granted the engine is gonna take a hit, but putting out a shock should still be doable

 

2) If Shock = you're ahead, a lot more people would want it banned OCG side. The fact remains, the bastard is only gonna last a turn, and you're luck if that, not to mention, come farfa, shock is gonna be slow as donkeys and you might as well convert it into something useful. 

 

3) Minerva is solid since like Raiden it keeps advancing your gamestate as long as you have it up, and if you kill it it advances you again. Might not be ideal in m&m's but will definitely do well in the pure Clown or Clown Doll engines.

 

4)Foolish is currently run more than Harpie's Feather Duster in OCG. Try again.

 

5) If OCG doesn't have the brain to ban centaur I will kiss Klav, so that should remove a good 3-5 spots in your extra by my calculations, six if Chain bites it too. 

 

6) Combo would be even better in TCG since you don't have to worry about triple compuls, one of the few cards that can take a piss all over Minerva and Beatrice

 

7) If anything it'll be more prevalent in TCG due to you guys having the full seraph engine. Stick Chain into Vylon. Pop 1, draw 2, snatch 1. Go into Beatrice. That should be quite the push already.

 

8) Doubting OCG will play it tactfully. That's like Asia playing Rank Up with Nyarla to CDI in the set rotation format. Sure it happened....for a week. OCG is too fast for that kinda cuteness esp when a well placed Compuls will ruin your day. TCG is slow enough to allow for that kinda bullshitery 

[Blake]

 

 

1) Flame Mascot + m&m engine can sheet out multiple XYZ's. Granted the engine is gonna take a hit, but putting out a shock should still be doable

 

2) If Shock = you're ahead, a lot more people would want it banned OCG side. The fact remains, the bastard is only gonna last a turn, and you're luck if that, not to mention, come farfa, shock is gonna be slow as donkeys and you might as well convert it into something useful. 

 

3) Minerva is solid since like Raiden it keeps advancing your gamestate as long as you have it up, and if you kill it it advances you again. Might not be ideal in m&m's but will definitely do well in the pure Clown or Clown Doll engines.

 

4)Foolish is currently run more than Harpie's Feather Duster in OCG. Try again.

 

5) If OCG doesn't have the brain to ban centaur I will kiss Klav, so that should remove a good 3-5 spots in your extra by my calculations, six if Chain bites it too. 

 

6) Combo would be even better in TCG since you don't have to worry about triple compuls, one of the few cards that can take a piss all over Minerva and Beatrice

 

7) If anything it'll be more prevalent in TCG due to you guys having the full seraph engine. Stick Chain into Vylon. Pop 1, draw 2, snatch 1. Go into Beatrice. That should be quite the push already.

 

8) Doubting OCG will play it tactfully. That's like Asia playing Rank Up with Nyarla to CDI in the set rotation format. Sure it happened....for a week. OCG is too fast for that kinda cuteness esp when a well placed Compuls will ruin your day. TCG is slow enough to allow for that kinda bullshitery 

 

1. That means you're ahead. If you're Shcoking into this, you had a deadish card in opening hand that was just an overkill.

 

2. OCG is hardly a telling point with Shock Master. The card puts you far ahead, especially in the case of Mage and Pals where you spit it out along with other cards.

 

3. You mention a reason this point does not stand later on. She's easy to outplay. Even then, if she's removd from the board, any and all copies of Astral Force are dead. You in no way countered this point, only attempted to distract me with a point about how Minerva's good on her own.

 

4. OCG isn't really telling. The format is full off too much cute theory-oh that sees play, and always has been, to say that Foolish being more commonly run is a real point... Especially when MAge and Pals doesn't play backrow aside from trap holes. This point doesn't answer the real problem, which is that Foolish has a lot of potential to be a dead draw, and HFD is not relevant to this discussion. Try again, mate.

5. So you're... using theory to defend a card's usage? "If X, Y, and Z happen..." is not a real point. The hypothetical of chain being banned is relevant, because it's the only reason this combo would see usage, but moreso is not. Especially considering the last list that addressed 0 problems. Granted, that was before Mages and Pals, but the problems had already begun to show their heads even then. Y'know, like the CDI trio.

 

6. combo would be better here, but no player would run such a dead winmoar combo.

 

7. Yeah, problem there being that the Clown engine is/was used as a means to make Seraphs consistent. Which means you want to setup up your seraphs with your clowns. This is the opposite, and is dependent upon going second or risking dead draws.

 

8. So if it's too sheet for even the OCG, no way the TCG would do it.

[Spinny]

IMO this card will be nuts in BA but pretty gimmicky and bad in most other decks.

[goodfusion]

IMO this card will be nuts in BA but pretty gimmicky and bad in most other decks.

 

Well, it is still a generic Rank 6 for Rank 6 engines to use. I dunno, I expect Hazy Flame or whatever could have a use for it?

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Well after that list, Chaos Dragons could use it 0.O

[Progenitor]

you can do the same but better with Daigusto Emeral. Cologne is a gimmicky waste of an ED slot with less overall value. Hell, you can revive Zirconia with Emeral.

 

Uh....not really.  Daigusto serves an entirely different purpose in the form of late game capitalization or resource recovery/looping and Cologne can grab from the Deck as well as the graveyard.  In simpler terms Cologne would be a turn 1 option to get what you need, while Daigusto is a late-game option or a combo extender.  Plus if you don't have GK-Fusion, none of this even matters.  Which is why beatrice would be fantastic as a replacement for Lavalval Chain so you don't have to run 3 Absorb Fusion (I funking hate that card so much)

 

 

Additionally, Gem-Knights (pure) have very little R4 capability, with the majority of it being based around Rescue Rabbit. Don't say Box of Friends, as Box of Friends gem-knight is unplayable.

 

Fair enough, but it's not nonexistent.  Unexpected Dai does wonders for at least 1 R4, which in this example is all you need.  Granted it relies on you having a blank field and a level 4 in hand, but it's still there.

 

Lel if Box of Friends was viable in anything then Cologne rank up in GK would be broken as funk since you not only get a free normal but a free LIGHT for Seph.  I might have to make a super gimmicky bad deck around that concept now that succeeds like 1/1000 times but is super OP when it succeeds.  Actually that's pretty much GK OTK.dek in a nutshell...it might not actually be that bad...

 

 

Gem-Blade would rather make Minerva, and doesn't run G-K Fusion.

 

Yes....but since I was talking about pseudo searching GK-Fusion we're not talking about Gem-Blade.

 

 

Fairy Cheer Girl isn't playable, as the only deck that can summon her does not want to.

 

I mean...that assumes we're only looking at it from a competitive level.  Cuz I'm pretty sure things like Melodious like to run it to some extent, though I have no idea what they would even want to sent via Beatrice...So yeah it's a cute option but as far as I know it doesn't actually set anything useful up in those decks.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Guess that whole discussion was pointless. Laval lives, might still play see cause of Unicorn+Green Magician or Monkey Keyboard