Dog King Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 3 Red Eyes Black Flare Dragon2 Red Eyes B. Dragon1 REDMD1 Red Eyes of Archfiend3 Black Metal Dragon2 Black Stone of Legend2 Denko Sekka2 Kinka-Byo1 Keeper of the Shrine1 Flamvell Guard 3 Cards of the Red Stone3 Dragon Shribe2 Dragon Ravine2 Dragons Mirror2 Silvers Cry1 Sacred Swords1 Allure1 Terra1 Raigeki1 One for One 3 Red-Eyes Spirit2 Return of the Red Eyes1 Vanitys Emptiness 1 FGD2 First of the Dragons1 Archfiend Black Skull Dragin2 Red Eyes Flare1 Draccosack1 Big Eye1 Master of Blades1 Starudust Dragon1 Scrap Dragon1 Crimson Blader1 Trishula2 Whatever you want heres something similar to what i usei can post a play book but im pretty sure by looking at it, the combos are pretty clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitor Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Klav, I have no idea what you are talking about. Yeah, you have to run 1 summoned skull. Yes that one card can dead draw. But not really. You have the Ritual Spell AND BMD to search REF. With the ritual and xyz focused build I suggested, you should get REF within 2-3 turns, upon which there is almost 0 reason not to immediately play it. If you run out of plays in that short span of time by running ONE summoned skull then I'm sorry but ur bad, or your build is inconsistent as funk. Why run vannila Red eyes you ask? More targets for Cards of red jewel, sacred sword, dragon shrine, etc. Running only 3 level 7s is an awful idea. You won't even have dragons to send after turn 1 practically. Why in gods name do you need 3 beast eyes? To get searches with BMD? Well I hate to tell you this, but in the maindeck you are only left with 7 monster targets. 3 of those are red eyes that are probably in the grave. 3 are tracer. 1 is REDMD. Then you have 5-6 traps. Great abuse the sheet out of that. I'd like yo see you try. Kinka has ALWAYS been used mostly to get back a used Blackstone and use it for free without needing to wait a turn. Beast eyes was a cute tech. Not a go-to play. Plus, you can't search BMD. Nor Kinka. So running 3 BMD is suboptimal with that card count, and both you have to draw into or send BMD with a shrine or something. You can't "optimise" a red-eyes deck with standard conventions. The deck NEEDS many R7s, REF IS a good card at 1, Kinka is NOT vital, etc. I've made MANY builds of red-eyes. Hell I've been playing them since they were first coded in Salvation. I know what they need and how they should play. I've tried the build you suggested. Not having Black dragon archfiend lost me games. It needs to be an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 Klav, I have no idea what you are talking about.Apparently me neither? Yeah, you have to run 1 summoned skull. Yes that one card can dead draw. But not really.Well I don't like running cards that are completly useless aside from one purpose. Personal hunch. Feel free to do otherwise. You have the Ritual Spell AND BMD to search REF. With the ritual and xyz focused build I suggested, you should get REF within 2-3 turns, upon which there is almost 0 reason not to immediately play it.That's true, I never denied you can get it out really quickly. But it still forces you to run a subpar card and there's also the thing that REF prevents you from summoning anything else that turn so if Archfiend gets answered, you're kind boned. If you run out of plays in that short span of time by running ONE summoned skull then I'm sorry but ur bad, or your build is inconsistent as funk.I like how it suddenly got person for some reason. Why run vannila Red eyes you ask? More targets for Cards of red jewel, sacred sword, dragon shrine, etc. Running only 3 level 7s is an awful idea. You won't even have dragons to send after turn 1 practically.I derped on that, sure, but the main point was that he's not running Black Metal Flare at all. Why in gods name do you need 3 beast eyes? To get searches with BMD? Well I hate to tell you this, but in the maindeck you are only left with 7 monster targets. 3 of those are red eyes that are probably in the grave. 3 are tracer. 1 is REDMD. Then you have 5-6 traps. Great abuse the sheet out of that. I'd like yo see you try.So you can run 2. Or 1. Christ. The point is that you need it. Kinka has ALWAYS been used mostly to get back a used Blackstone and use it for free without needing to wait a turn. Beast eyes was a cute tech. Not a go-to play. Plus, you can't search BMD. Nor Kinka. So running 3 BMD is suboptimal with that card count, and both you have to draw into or send BMD with a shrine or something.It's "put a boss onto the field" vs "put as boss onto the field and search a card". Tell me which is better. Especially since best you get out of Black Stone is a regular Red-Eyes/Flare. Sure you get the Kinka for future use, I give you that, but I have a feeling that a 3k boss + search REDRUM is better. You can't "optimise" a red-eyes deck with standard conventions. The deck NEEDS many R7s, REF IS a good card at 1, Kinka is NOT vital, etc.If you can't optimise a deck with "standard conventions" (what does that even mean?) then it's probably a bad deck. I've made MANY builds of red-eyes. Hell I've been playing them since they were first coded in Salvation. I know what they need and how they should play. I've tried the build you suggested. Not having Black dragon archfiend lost me games. It needs to be an option.If not having Archfiend made you lose games, then, to quote, "I'm sorry but ur bad or your build is inconsistent as funk". Also "I made many builds" isn't an argument because the builds could have been bad. I tested it a while too, and I'm nto throwing words into the air because I know what I'm talking about. Though I admit I derped slightly earlier and forgot you're out of Dragons if you cut the regular one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitor Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 That's true, I never denied you can get it out really quickly. But it still forces you to run a subpar card and there's also the thing that REF prevents you from summoning anything else that turn so if Archfiend gets answered, you're kind boned. Well, that 1 subpar card is used up in use. REF essentially is Foolish x2 getting rid of that subpar stuff for something awesome. and yeah, you could be boned if it's stopped. but you can't stop it during attacks, and even if it is stopped, have you seen how much revival red-eyes plays? Spirit, Return, Silver's Cry, even things like Call of the Haunted are very usable in the deck. In most of my builds anyway, a lot of my setup or Xyzs and such occur on my opponent's turn anyway. Plus REF doesn' require you to have a blank field. If you are that insecure about dropping it that turn, then don't. Play defensive and set up a field first. Next turn drop fusion for potentially game. I like how it suddenly got person for some reason. I apologize for that one. When I write for decent periods of time I tend to ramble causing me to unintentionally talk out of my ass and say things that really have no pertinence to anything. It's "put a boss onto the field" vs "put as boss onto the field and search a card". Tell me which is better. Especially since best you get out of Black Stone is a regular Red-Eyes/Flare. Sure you get the Kinka for future use, I give you that, but I have a feeling that a 3k boss + search REDRUM is better. Well if you look at it that way, sure. But as you said, it consumes your Kinka. Just going for a regular red eyes play has 2 advantages:As you said, you get to re-use Kinka next turn should you need it You can actually Xyz and synchro with the Red-eyes you tutored, expanding your combos and, potentially, getting more out of the turn than a 3k beater + search.Granted it's whatever the situation calls for, but i've found most of the time saving the Kinka is not only safer, but an overall greater asset to how the rest of the turn plays out. In this ritual based build, you really don't want to search REDMD. Why do that when you can Tutor it for free and save you a banish. A banish, might I add, that does absolutely nothing for the deck. I really can't think of anything (besides Burial / Fossil Dig) that interacts with banished cards. That's why I tend to avoid Dragon's mirror if possible. If you can't optimise a deck with "standard conventions" (what does that even mean?) then it's probably a bad deck. Sorry my ass had to add that line to extend the essay to it's two page requirement. *budum tst*.Jokes aside I once again apologize for that sheet talk. If not having Archfiend made you lose games, then, to quote, "I'm sorry but ur bad or your build is inconsistent as funk". Also "I made many builds" isn't an argument because the builds could have been bad. I tested it a while too, and I'm nto throwing words into the air because I know what I'm talking about. Though I admit I derped slightly earlier and forgot you're out of Dragons if you cut the regular one too. The point "many builds" was illustrating that some of my builds have been bad. on the flip side, some of them have been good. The whole point I was trying to get across was that just not even having the option to make Black Dragon Archfiend has cost me game in some of those builds. Because I didn't have REF to search off BMD or the Ritual, I lost the next turn as I didn't have a 1-2 card play to get me back in the game. A 2400 burn would have sealed the deal in every case where I definitely could have made Archfiend via searching REF, which once again, I wasn't running at the time. Comparing this to my builds which did include REF and Archfiend to some degree, most of my streamlined builds of such case do far better as a whole than ones that do not include it. Cuz remember: all this fuss is over 2 main deck cards. In this style of deck, that doesn't make a whole lot of difference in the long run, unless those 2 cards specifically enable something. If those 2 cards really matter enough to outpower a 3200 armades that guarantees a 2400 burn after it attacks, then I've been using the wrong build. In my experience with multiple builds, I've found filling those 2 slots with anything but REF and Summoned Skull causes the deck to lose too much power for what you could actually put in them. To put it in simpler terms, REF and Summoned Skull are indeed a bit more inconsistent (not by much. We ain't making miles from inches here but I digress), but in exchange they offer more to the deck than anything else I could think of to put in those slots Hopefully that was a better less shitful explanation of what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog King Posted August 22, 2015 Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 or we can just not red eyes fusion cart or red eyes ritual carts and run my build where we focus on spamming the board with useful stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premier Alexander Romanov Posted August 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/339751-because-burning-soul-jackdek/?do=findComment&comment=6696946funk it.I don't really care anymore.I already moved on to Red Dragon Archfiend now that HSR is on DN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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