Archetype Generator Meta

[Draconus297]

We do have Terraforming, but funnily enough "Yollohcoatl Lines" does have its use: Oraicalchos Deuteros. You see, if you activate it by banishing the original Seal from your Graveyard, it gains all the effects of the original Seal (OPT destruction immunity, 500 boost, your opponent can only battle your biggest monster), on top of its existing effects of providing targeting protection to your biggest monster and OPT negation to mass destruction that also revives a thing. Combine that with Oricalchos Soul Contract, and you remove the "no ED" restriction your field would place you under, in addition to making all monsters your opponent Special Summons have their effects turned off during the turn they come out. That's a two-card combo that puts you in a pretty advantageous position without much effort, which is pretty sweet.

[xlArisenRoselx]

Oi, I was wondering if anyone in here (bar Dova for obvious reasons) would like to be a fellow judge in my archetype challenge. I know @@Draconus297 is a good judge, and so is @@Eshai, but haven't seen the latter in a while, even after his return as Tricky. Nyx, Champion, Sakura, and Tinkerer r all welcome to as well, I just need at least one judge, besides myself.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I would help out, but not with 3 WI courses and some other stuff. 

 

Then again, I'm not as critical on OCG anyway (least compared to the past, but other members have been harsher). If you go series 9 or 10, I don't care; just try to be consistent.

 

 

We'll see, but no guarantees.

[Draconus297]

Your guidelines are kinda wide, which makes a good part of the grading scale hard to grade. I might grade with you on another contest, but you made the net so wide on this one that you could catch whales.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Kyumi's

 

Literacy (25 point maximum): Did you read the prompt and give it what it asked for?
Creativity (25 point maximum): Did you go above and beyond the call of duty with unusual design choices, or the use of unexpected mechanics?
Balance (20 point maximum): Did you make something completely underwhelming, or stupid busted? If you did, you lose points here.
Interactivity (20 point maximum): Do your archetypal cards stick out around each other with little synergy? If they do, you lose points here.
OCG (10 point maximum): Did you use correct card text grammar? If you didn't, you lose points here.
Bonus Points (5 maximum): We'll give these if there's a specific reason to that isn't covered by the above- good card art, punny/meaningful names, etc. Potpourri the category, but we don't have to award any (and, in fact, we usually won't).

 

Mine

 

SAKURA (100)

BALANCE/USABILITY (60)

• If this were ever printed, would it be too powerful, just right or pack filler?
• Do we have a reason to run this over another card that does something similar? Does card work out the way it's supposed to?

CREATIVITY/FLAVOR (25)

• Have I already seen this type of effect before on similar cards or this is something different?
• How creative did you get without breaking mechanics?
• Did you at least follow the theme? (Easy 5 points if you follow directions)

OCG (15)

• Are you following guidelines for standard English grammar and writing? Did you spellcheck your work?
  • I won't deduct points for differences in American/British spelling (but I think English language cards go to American spelling nowadays)
  • Please note that card grammar has slightly different standards from "correct" English.
• Can I understand your card without having to get a ruling query?
• Usage of terminology that actually exists on TCG/OCG cards.
  • You should write your cards in PSCT as it is easier to follow, but anything from late 5Ds/ZEXAL is fine (earlier formats have more confusing wording).
    • Either ARC-V or VRAINS PSCT will be accepted, but please be consistent with your styles. 
    • You may also use hybrid PSCT as you deem necessary without penalty (this is the form that YGOrganization uses, and the version I tend to use for cardmaking nowadays). 
  • Points will not be deducted if you accidentally mix up ARC-V / VRAINS grammar terms, but they will be docked if you didn't spellcheck and/or use appropriate grammar found on actual cards.

tl;dr, spellcheck your work and make sure that you use terms that are actually used.

 

You guys can vote on which scale you like better, but yeah, I score OCG higher and mostly on whether/not you used spellcheck and capitalized where you needed to. No seriously, I've seen a ton of members who don't use it in cardmaking or make them hard to read.

 

I may modify it for later tournaments considering it is still geared towards Advanced-esque design, but yeah. Also note that this is for singles only; I don't really grade multiples because of the time required.

 

---

 

So yeah, take it as you will. 

 

======

As for group project #3, we can figure out when to do that at a later date.

[Draconus297]

Kyumi copied my rubric, actually.

 

As for group project #4, I've actually been sorting through a few ideas vis-a-vis both what the "prompt" amounts to, plus a new method of organizing our thoughts because diving through pages of PM and then trying to organize the result myself isn't exactly fun.

Fun fact: If we get everything done by early June, Group Project #4 can coincide with my 4th anniversary of being here, which I find really interesting.

 

But yeah, Intergaluster (I really need to think of a better name) and Rocknight aren't "group projects" per se (although I could easily convert the concepts to work that way), they're personal side projects that I want help completing quickly (and making AGM fighting-fit) so that I can take on a new Game prompt. My creative juices are flowing again, and I'm legitimately pumped to be back in the game.

 

There's a lot on the way from my end, from generics to legacy support to archetypes to a neat competition I've been trying to puzzle together the logistics of, but I can't in good conscience continue with ANY OF IT until those two titanic roadblocks are completed.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I don't mind starting group project #3 at a later time; issue is (1) what to do, because some of us have design opinions on what we like/dislike doing and (2) WHEN it is an appropriate time, given schedules and all. Might have to be somewhere in late March - early May, given your plan for trying to do the 4th one in June. 

 

Sclera Guild was first one, and then we have Übeldraches as #2. So yeah...

 

====

How far are you in those projects anyway?

[Draconus297]

1. Sclera Guild

2. Moyufutsusa

3. Übeldrache

 

That was an attempt to correct you, not a typo.

 

*********

 

Intergaluster has its primary Main Deck monster lineup completed, and rough sketches as to its Field Spell, but I know that, to do the concept justice, I need a lot of S/T support and at least 7, likely 10 Fusions. On a design level, it's just so damned far away from completion.

 

Rocknight is less complete on a technical level, but there is a complete outline as to what I need to make, the general guidelines with which I'll make it, and the general spread of their Synchro monsters. The issue there isn't what to make, more technicalities- as a Synchro-based idea, and one that should hypothetically be able to access multiple different Levels of Synchro, I need to figure out who gets Tuner status and which Level to assign to which Main Deck monster. I also intend to make another target for Miracle Synchro Fusion, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the protagonist one. My bad.

 

Might help if you don't go crazy with the design prompts, because they probably will sheet on you in the end (like they sort of are now). Granted, doing simple ones can get boring and cookie-cutter, but it's up to you to find a balance that suits you. How much do you want to strain yourself designing, the level of playability you'll have and how fun is it for you to use it / go against it?

 

Goes for everyone.

[Draconus297]

The primary problem isn't difficulty and strain, it's the razor's edge that is AGM balance. Basically, Intergaluster takes ideas from what made GX so funky, and Rocknight prefers taking copious notes on what made Synchro archetypes so effective in the 5Ds era. They both get an Arc-V level coat of paint, but I really wanted to see if I could make both good (but not busted) by following the design ethos of those two eras in particular, but making the archetypes as a whole a lot less fragile in their plays by including redundancy clauses, making bosses easier to field, and making effects pay dividends.

 

It's because of this approach specifically that I'm having such a difficult time, in fact. GX was this nebulous area where you could get away with literally everything because the anime was just throwing gimmicks at the board to see what stuck, so trying to contain all the things I found most interesting in one archetype is pretty ridiculous.

 

5Ds was a bit more linear in what could make a Deck good, which is why Rocknight has a much more defined lineup, but because of the incredibly varying ways you could put those puzzle pieces together you could wind up with very different styles despite repeating essentially similar designs across multiple Decks.

 

That's why I'd like someone to help me out with one of them so I can finish it before I focus all my attention on the other and get to all the other backlogged projects. Once one nebulous hell is over, I can more clearly analyze the other.

[Sleepy]

Let's see...

 

Sleepy

Weakness: Time Management
Strengths: Potentially Acceptable at Card Art
Trivia: I love Autumn themes

 

 

Sooo what's going on right now? I skimmed through the last 2 pages and sounds like people working together with different visions/aims (5DS and GX - like) and something about lacking reviews? =0

[Draconus297]

Great! I'll put that up on the Board.

 

To make a long story short:

 

I would like a bit of assistance completing one of the two archetype ideas I posted above, so I can get them off my mind and move on to other projects.

 

We're potentially starting another group project in mid-to-late March, where everyone chips in on one idea to make an archetype that embodies everyone's design ethos. We're generally getting better at it as we refine what prompts make for good idea flow and figure out how to best use one another's talents.

 

I did explain the queue, unless you missed/skimmed that explanation as to the huge list of Konami archetypes.

 

Generally, most AGM archetype threads that get posted don't get many reviews. Dova, Melon, Sakura, and I are generally trying to remedy that, mostly the former two.

 

That get you up to speed?

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Yeah, it's mostly Dova and Melon/Tinkerer, hence why the former has the Advanced review thread. Reason why I am not doing too much is because engineering coursework is a pain in the ass (writing intensives suck) and take up time, interest in the playstyle, general CC duties and so forth. Also because I cannot recall every single generic we have made that could possibly abuse sheet in there.

 

That also applies to why I don't post sets, outside of jumping back and forth between ARC-V and VRAINS design. For reference, nearly all of the stuff I have made in here was technically designed for the current metagame and Konami pool, and not necessarily for AGM (save for the group sets).

 

@@Sleepy, you're more than welcome to design Link stuff while in the club; just post them as normal in CC; not in here.

[Draconus297]

Ah, let me make an addendum onto what Sakura said because I'd really like to clarify a point that came up when Kyumi made an archetype that featured Links, and tried to implement them into the AGM:

 

You are entirely free to design cards that feature MR4 language and Links- I'm not your mother, I can't moderate what you do. However, I must ask that anything that pays reference to said MR4 stuff be left completely away from the AGM. If you have neat outside ideas, I'd be glad to have them, just make sure they fit under AGM (Series 9.5, as I call it) card grammar.

 

[spoiler= Queue and explanation]

Performapal (2/3 - Kyumi, Champion)

Odd-Eyes (2/3 - Kyumi, Dova)

Majespecter (2/3 - Sakura, Nyx)

lswarm, bar Origin and Ophion (2/4 - Nyx, Dova)

Elementsaber/Elemental Lord (2/3 - Sakura, Melon)

Dracoslayer/Dracoverlord, bar Amorphactor Pain (2/3 - Melon, Sakura)

Metalfoes, bar Electrumite (2/3 - Sakura, Dova)

Galaxy, bar "Number 38: Hope Harbinger Dragon Titanic Galaxy", "Number 42: Galaxy Tomahawk", "Number 62: Galaxy-Eyes Prime Photon Dragon", "Number 83: Galaxy Queen", "Number 95: Galaxy-Eyes Dark Matter Dragon", "Number 107: Galaxy-Eyes Tachyon Dragon", and "Number 107: Neo Galaxy-Eyes Tachyon Dragon"(2/4 - Sakura, Draconus)

Lightsworn, bar Curious (1/3 - Kyumi)

Qli, bar Genius (1/3 - Dova)

Zefra, bar Metaltron (1/3 - Dova)

 

Above is the "queue", wherein archetypes and series that Konami made can be approved for AGM use once the sim goes up.

Here's how it works:

Single cards can be added at will, by any member.

A series, defined here as a group of cards with a common theme in naming or design, but no card that refers to them by name as a group (Dragon Rulers, Digital Bugs, the Book Quick-Play Spells, the Goyo ED lineup), requires 2 votes to get in.

An archetype, any group of cards with a common core card (a searcher, a name-specific revival card, an archetypal Foolish, etc) requires 3 votes.

A super-archetype, which contains a defined sub-archetype with its own support, requires 4 votes.

An umbrella archetype, which contains defined members of multiple archetypes (Numbers, for example, alright they specifically are barred due to the existence of the AGM's own Numerix), require 5 votes.

 

For things created by members that didn't come from the Game or a member prompt, all of the above applies, minus one vote (as it is assumed that the creator voted for their own stuff- however, that means you can't vote for your own creations, only bring them up).

 

Anyone can propose an archetype, and once an archetype has gotten in it requires the same number of votes to remove if we decide it was a bad idea to add it.

 

 

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

(Then again, think Dova and I are the only ones here who regularly type in series 10 OCG; though Kyumi and Eshai do too last time I checked.)

 

Well, Kyumi's gift to me also included Links, and the exclusion of anything to do with Links is why certain cards have been barred from the AGM. For instance, MPB do not have Raiten because it literally mentions Links in its text, though I made them a replacement in Shidenka. (Kyumi did get the Link stuff graded on my end, but I treated it as a regular thing and not for here).

 

So yeah, if you see "except" stuff in the archetype list for outside things, it's either because they explicitly mention Links, have them or contain problematic cards that we voted to keep out in light of interactions with generics.

 

---

 

But yeah, that generally sums up stuff. Once you're ready and get acclimated to the settings, feel free to start picking out an archetype or doing legacy threads.

[Sleepy]

Thank you for the clarifications both of you.

Also I just found a couple AGM threads at CC Advanced Multiples. I'll go read them but until the morning (2am right now, this reply is essentially my final push of the day xD )
 

Much like with my Parnimals at the contest, I like aiming for cards for MR4, but whose specifics wouldn't be bothered by being part of MR3.

I think zone placement being important is really fun to design for, although I can see how Links would mostly not fit in MR3 formats since all down markers become non-existent unless the Link worked with S/T, and all up markers would also either point to a void or to the opponent's zones at all times, making things weird and a little too different from their original intentions.

Overall Markers would 't be used for unlocking MMZ into EMZ, and would have Links limit their markers to "points to" or "co-linked" effect support and nothing else.

[Tinkerer]

I can probably help with Intergaluster.  Just PM me with thoughts/what you've got so far.  I'm pretty busy today, but I'll probably be able to actually sit down and fully think about it in the evening.

 

In other news: I'm errata-ing "Wanderer's World" in my Wanderlust set.  The field to grave effect is going to be exclusively able to be placed on the top of your deck rather than both yours and your opponents (giving it to your opponent would force them to have a dead draw and give you a winning position).  Also slapping down a HOPT on the recycle effect (just due to the realization of how abusable it can be without an OPT - potential for infinite draws).

 

 

Generally, most AGM archetype threads that get posted don't get many reviews. Dova, Melon, Sakura, and I are generally trying to remedy that, mostly the former two.

 

XD  I just made one review and I'm given that honor!  But in all seriousness, I'll get to all AGM archetypes eventually as a part of my legacy support thread, and if there are any immediately busted interactions, I have no qualms about saying them.  However, that's oftentimes in this thread rather than the posted thread itself. But if anyone wants a review in particular where I hit the nitty-gritty, just let me know.

 

Any thoughts on what your first AGM archetype might be, Sleepy?

[Sleepy]

I don't think I'll make an archetype at the moment. Need to finish up some things that have been taking up my time. I'll try to help with feedback as much as possible though.

[ChampionZero]

Yeah, Kyumi, I am... NOT one to come to for judging, unless it's a writing contest. Which I presume it is not.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

It's a general card contest that takes into account Master Rule 4, which we're all aware you are not a fan of. So yeah. 

 

In terms of club stuff, yeah, I still have to update a few things in the legacy support thread. Now to wait for Skyfangs to get their names officially revealed so we can get them in here, and I can start designing. 

 

(Might be good to repost a lot of my older sets; especially the ones from 2014-2015ish, because hell knows how old they are)

 

@@The Nyx Avatar

 

This is confirmation you still exist and didn't get axed.

[The Nyx Avatar]

@@The Nyx Avatar

 

This is confirmation you still exist and didn't get axed.

I'm not even entirely sure what happened, since I was offline during that time. Anyone want to bring me up to speed?

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Basically you ended up having Permabanned as a secondary group (though it doesn't really do anything) and it showed up due to the new changes. However, it's been removed so that issue no longer exists. Don't worry about it after this.  

[Tinkerer]

Whew!  Finally completed my goal of adding a support card to every official AGM Archetype made by someone else!

 

I may continue with supports for whatever new AGM archetype hits, but I think I'll take a bit of a break on that.  I do want to focus on making my own archetypes/adding supports to archetypes that I want (rather than out of dogged obligation).  That might mean that I'll make a third Support thread, but with a bit less formality than the other ones.

 

 

As for the "Metal" stuff, first I'd like to request adding Metalzoa and The Creator to the AGM pool.  Second, how should I go about separating the ones to be added?

[Draconus297]

Any archetype/series you want to support, feel free to make whatever support you feel like, so long as it isn't busted. I'm not your mother. Hell, you could even make a non-AGM thread suggesting Links that could fit in archetypes I've made, just as a way to show me something I might be missing.

 

Sure, I'll get on giving us Metalzoa and The Creator.

 

I'd suggest a separate thread, or a linked post down the line outlining ones that are approved for the AGM use, but you do you. You could even do what Sakura did, and outline in red things you designed that aren't fit for AGM use.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Or in my case, stuff that currently isn't approved for AGM use because lack of inclusion for the source archetypes and stuff they belong to. Chaos Synchro has red to denote stuff that isn't because their base forms are banned. 

 

Some of Kyumi's stuff does have Links, but weren't separated. I think they were at a later time.