Archetype Generator Meta

[Tinkerer]

I'm personally partial to the Rail series, but that's just me.

 

What's next month's deckbuilding theme btw?

 

EDIT: would anyone mind throwing a vote towards my Wanderlust stuff (https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/367791-wanderlust-written/)? Technically, it's not an archetype but...

[Draconus297]

Think you could make good support for them, so I don't have to keep looking at them and going "that's incomplete"?

 

We're finishing the Attributes until December. November has WATER, December is LIGHT.

 

I'll check them out.

EDIT: Yeah, they're pretty harmless. Maybe they could be pretty dangerous with Dungeon Burrower and Destroyer running backup, or teching in a couple of them so as to accelerate a Labyrinth Dragon Deck without interfering too much, but nothing of major cause for concern.

[Tinkerer]

I was kinda working on this before asking what types needed support, so I thought I might as well finish it up before moving on to another type.  The Rabunnekos: https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/367823-rabunneko-agm-written/

 

I actually found the first Rabunneko prompt to be more interesting, though I did throw in some stuff that helps them via destruction (referencing your version of the prompt, Draco) and made the level 1 a tuner which, with its level-changing capacity, should open up some interesting Synchro plays.  I do still plan on making some more control-based spells/traps so the archetype doesn't straight die from non-destruction monster removal.

[Draconus297]

I still find the idea pretty uninspired, if I'm being perfectly honest. Ooh, waiting. It doesn't help that Final Countdown is, in my opinion, the second least interesting win condition in the game (behind Exodia), ergo why I chose Destiny Board over it when adding win conditions. Plus, especially with this draft of Rabunneko, your Trap that lowers Levels can be saved until you have Lioness on board, and cut your waiting time in half (5 turns instead of 11), which makes me think that it should raise its Level to hit an arbitrary point, instead of lowering it to 1.

 

I mention this only because we already had a similar issue with the Victorian instant win condition of it being too easy to cheese- it used to only require that only one of the Ritual Spell be in the Graveyard, and any one event flag would be enough to set it off: now, you need exactly one each of all three in the Graveyard [D.D. Crow can cut them off], your LP need to be lower, less cards on your field [can't trigger if your opponent's board is empty], less cards in your hand [can't trigger if your opponent keeps their hand at 0], and less cards in your Deck, all simultaneously, which is why huge milling Decks aren't a big part of the AGM, outside Gold Spears which repeatedly put all their stuff back so you can't cheese Victorians.

 

Destiny Board, similar to this win condition, would only take 5 turns, but the prevalence of good backrow removal and telegraphing itself at your opponent's End Phase makes it simpler to handle.

 

Vennominaga has an extremely specific condition to get it out in the first place, needs to get 3 damaging attacks in, and can only be effectively utilized in a very Reptile-heavy Deck if you want it to get off at all.

 

Rabunneko Lioness is very easy to play protect the castle with, relatively easy to cheese out with the "Evolution" Quick-Play Spells, and it's a 3500 stick that can't be targeted if you put another copy of itself on board. Couple that with sufficient effect negation (hello Solemns) and a couple copies of Brightkite, and your opponent can't really do anything but watch as they have to lose the Duel, unless they're the kind of nutcase to run Lava Golem, or (more hilarious yet) GameChild Volcano Prince.

[Tinkerer]

Wait, what Evolution Quick-Play spells?

 

I really think you're overestimating the consistency of the win condition.  How quickly do you expect to summon out Lioness?  Excluding the Evolution spells (again what are they?) it should take a few turns minimum to get it out and at any point in the process if your field gets wiped or something you have to start over.  Lioness being full nomi and a complete dead draw doesn't help either.  Like Venominaga, its ATK should be high enough to basically be your win condition without actually aiming to get it down to level 1.

 

As for the target protection, that was actually a bit of flavor purposes.  Since all the smaller ones can dodge targeting effects by tributing themselves, it really wouldn't be right making the boss susceptible to targeting when the others easily circumvent it.

[Draconus297]

I'm absolutely sure that I typed Equip. That's weeeird. But yeah, essentially even if the equipped monster isn't an Insect-Type, it gains 1 free Level every turn, and if you don't use the Equips' effects to tag out to a really big bug, you can use the effect of your monsters' own tag-out effects to get to Tigress, so can get you to Lioness at maximum speed. Given that you can use any Rabunneko to get Tigress, all you really need to do is put out any member of the archetype, stack on a couple of Evolution Equips, wait until you're high-Leveled enough to tag into Tigress (which won't take long if you run Equip Spell searchers), then just quickly jump to Lioness.

 

Oh, I know that it's for the purposes of flavor, that's not what bothers me. What bothers me is that some players might just use them exclusively for the win condition, and make a stall-fest out of an aggro Deck. I'm essentially trying to prevent the problem before it becomes a problem.

[Draconus297]

Queue reminder:

Infernity (2/3 - Eshai, Kyumi)

Raidraptor (2/3 - Kyumi, Draconus)

Reptillianne (1/3 - Draconus) (reasoning: it's the only Konami Reptile archetype we don't have, and I like Vaskii as a concept)

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I'll just approve Ruriraptors to clear out the queue. 

 

Oh right, and calmly advertising new event to get CC active (which is somewhat how Halloween events were in the old days). I would've liked to have opened it last week, but university was not nice to me.

[The Nyx Avatar]

Queue reminder:

Infernity (2/3 - Eshai, Kyumi)

Raidraptor (2/3 - Kyumi, Draconus)

Reptillianne (1/3 - Draconus) (reasoning: it's the only Konami Reptile archetype we don't have, and I like Vaskii as a concept)

Wait. We don't already have Reptilianne?

 

Well my vote goes to that archetype!

[xlArisenRoselx]

I like Reptilliannes, I'll vote for them too.

[Draconus297]

Well then, that means that the DARK challenge is EVEN EASIER! One day remains for 1000 Points on a DARK Deck! Then, on Wednesday . . . November, and the WATER Challenge, begins . . .

[Tinkerer]

Decided to be silly with this month's challenge rather than look for something broken.

 

[spoiler Deck List]

3 Dr. Millybones

3 Nurse Flippybones

3 Patient Chainybones 

3 Potted Evil

2 Bottom Feeder

3 Landmine Golem

3 Glutton Imp

3 Skelecannoneer 

2 Adrianicus Abraxus III

 

1 Tableau of Evil Magic

3 Dummy Field

3 Landmine Rearmament

3 Micro Reinforcement

3 Encroaching Darkness

3 Cursed Sacred Tome

 

 

1 Author of Fusion

1 Cosmic Chaos Dragon

1 Starving Venom Fusion Dragon

1 Envious Venom Fusion Dragon 

 

2 Revealed Terrorclaw

1 Waveform Sonic Dragon

1 Wall of Thorns

1 Mizuki, Harvester of the Deceased

1 Bladehog

 

2 Numerix-069: Eerie Aura

1 Malborne Enemy

1 Numerix-036: Hate Walker

1 Numerix-061: Vengeful Mage

 

 

 

Force the opponent (using Tableau of Evil Magic/Dummy Field) to attack into continuously floating FLIP monsters to achieve a deck-out win condition. Having tuners and Abraxus also opens up interesting and unique Extra Deck plays.

[Draconus297]

Cursed Sacred Tome is an interesting choice, because you could easily mill yourself to death if you get too greedy with getting back your Spell/Trap Cards. Even if you try to blow up your own card to save yourself (say, via Potted Evil), do remember that either player can save Cursed Sacred Tome from removal effects by banishing a card in their Graveyard. By the same token, though, part of why it's such an interesting card is that you can bait your opponent into obliterating their own Deck in vain efforts to get a necessary S/T back to get their combos online. I honestly didn't expect most people to choose the Cursed Sacred Tome over the other two Continuous Trap Sacred Tomes (Rewritten Sacred Tome and Retrieval of the Sacred Tome), whose drawbacks usually have less fatal consequences, but I can understand the reasoning in this instance.

 

Also, Waveform Sonic Dragon is another interesting choice, because it loses like half its power if you don't use Banfrequency, but it's a solid stun card regardless.

 

Aside from me just rambling about interesting decisions, it's a neat Deck. Skelecannoneer definitely competes with a bunch of other cards for "Normal Summon of a Zombie Deck", but here it's definitely the setup card for you. We have a LOT more Flip support than I realized.

[Draconus297]

Here's a comparison I'd like made (planning ahead for one of the Deck Challenges for next year: I have January to March all lined up, and I'm considering non-Effect/Normal monsters to be April's theme but I haven't quite decided): Labyrinth Dragon, or Dollossus? Which non-Effect support boss does what it needs to a little better? I would have put Party Lord, but he and Zushin specifically work only with Level 1 Normals, which is a bit too narrow of a category.

 

Labyrinth Dragon

EARTH - Level 8 - Dragon/Effect - 2350/2800

If you control a face-up Field Spell Card, and at least 1 Normal monster, you can Special Summon this monster from your hand. Your opponent cannot target non-Effect monsters you control for attacks or effects. This monster, and all Normal monsters you control, gain ATK equal to half the combined DEF of all non-Effect monsters on the field. If this monster inflicts battle damage to your opponent, you can Special Summon 1 Normal monster with 1500 or less ATK from your hand or Deck.

 

Dollossus

DARK - Level 8 - Rock/Effect - 1000/0

If a Field Spell Card(s) is destroyed, you can Special Summon this monster from your hand. If this card is sent from the field to the Graveyard, you can send 2 Normal monsters from your Deck to the Graveyard: Special Summon this card from your Graveyard. This card gains 700 ATK and DEF for every non-Effect monster in both Graveyards. If this card destroys your opponent's monster by battle: Send all face-up cards your opponent controls to the Graveyard, and inflict 200 damage to your opponent for each card sent to the Graveyard this way, but your opponent takes no damage from your attacks or effects for the rest of the turn after this effect resolves. You can only control 1 "Dollossus".

 

From my perspective, the advantages and disadvantages of each:

 

Labyrinth Dragon has several support cards dedicated to it, including a way to be searched and a card that pumps up the DEF of your Normal monsters to boost your entire board's ATK. In addition, it's a lot easier to OTK with Labyrinth Dragon, due to the fact that you can use effects that slam Normal monsters on the board quickly and effectively like Unexpected Dai, Ancient Rules, and Swing of Memories. It also carries protection and mild field swarming, making it considerably more well-rounded. You can also have more than one out, just in case you wanted to boost a Labyrinth Wall into a 3K beater, and as a 2350 beater it is respectable in its resistance to being run over while its effect is negated

 

Dollossus is a Level 8 DARK, meaning that it can easily be searched by non-dedicated cards like Magical Contract Door. Its Summoning condition is a little easier to pull off just in case you don't have the Tribute fodder (TwiTwi and Ancient Fairy Dragon double as ways to Summon your boss, yay), and it's considerably less picky about what non-Effect monsters you decide to use with it. Its revival effect means that it can just repeatedly come back from being popped, run over, or Tributed with increasingly high ATK values, and it has a pretty easy to pull off nuke effect. Its ATK increase is also not determined by your other board presence, making it easier to keep relatively strong. And, just in case you don't want it to be the focus of your Deck, you can use its revival effect as Graveyard setup for banish effects, and it's surprisingly excellent fodder for the Fossil Fusions (it gets out anything up to the Level 10).

[Tinkerer]

Well, they are difficult to compare just in a box. Based on raw qualities, Labyrinth Dragon feels like it holds up a tiny bit better because of a more practical summoning condition and the fact it has both offensive and defensive effects. However, Dollossus' nuke effect is nothing to sneeze at.

 

Yet, outside their effects, Labyrinth Dragon is just overall a better boss in terms of deckbuilding. Though its last effect is limited to summoning 1500 or lower monsters, taking that off the table still shows that Labyrinth Dragon's playstyle of "quickly overpowering via large field of beaters" is much more effective and easier to pull off than "lone monster gradually strengthening until it becomes too strong to stop". Further, in the context of deckbuilding, Dollossus forces you to run lots of Normals, but then they brick because you never actually want to see them and Dollossus doesn't actively reward you for having them. Laby's premise rewards running Normals, whether by enabling its summon condition or by pseudo-giving them all protection effects. Finally, Laby can utilize Normal Pendulums where Dollossus really can't (at least, not effectively).

 

...it seems pretty lopsided once you put them in realistic scenarios, but both have their own means of winning and are easily capable of doing so.

 

[spoiler Labyrinth Dragon's best summon?]Btw, is Labyrinth Dragon's best summoning target one of my ol' Clayborne monsters with 1400/2200 stats? I'm pretty sure that's gotta be the best without sacrificing natural ATK, I'd assume. It's pretty amusing how Laby, off 1 kill, can essentially slap down a Dark Magician for free which also gives itself 1100 free ATK.

 

[Draconus297]

It seems like it, regarding Labyrinth Dragon's potentially best target. One good attack is a free 2500 stick, and if you used something like Unexpected Dai beforehand this might get you to some ridiculous ATK values.

 

I appreciate the input on helping to solve the issue. Thank you.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Dova will be back soon; having a little talk with him on Discord. Haven't seen Octo for a while though. 

 

As for any design stuff, whatever I have on backburner still holds for the most part (though I do have to focus on more VRAINS-oriented stuff). Now if only YGOPro had offline AI mode so I could actually test sheet.

[Tinkerer]

Gonna probably do Sun Shadow (page 30) as my next project.

[The Nyx Avatar]

I need a new archetype to work on. Any interesting WATER archetypes we have from the Archetype Game?

[Tinkerer]

@Nyx: completely off topic, is your profile pic the Phantom Renegade?

[The Nyx Avatar]

@Nyx: completely off topic, is your profile pic the Phantom Renegade?

Righty-o!

 

He looks like a cross between Tuxedo Mask and one of my avatars!

 

 

Anywho, anyone know any good WATER archetypes from the game? Almost all the sets I've worked on are LIGHT and DARK, and I want to delve into WATER.

[Draconus297]

Tendrilium

 

Depending on your tastes in fiction, this archetype will make you think of either Rapture or Atlantis.

 

This WATER archetype isn't particularly picky regarding its Types, using a wide range, but has a subgroup name for each monster Type it uses (Tendrilium Overminds are the Psychics, Tendrilium Terrors are the Sea Serpents, Tendrilium Abominations are the Machines, etc) and most members, rather than supporting the entire archetype, help a subgroup or cluster of subgroups with consistency or power effects. They've got a defined "underwater magitek" feel to them, where every member has gold, black, and silver armor covered with color-coded TRON lines, or just individual dots of light.

 

While being a very big archetype, they actually have a relatively well-defined playstyle that makes monster choice really just a matter of preference, given that most of the subgroups have vague equivalents to one another: Floating FLIP. Similar to Subterrors, they have dangerous, removal-based (be it field clearing, hand nuking, or basically D.D. Crow) Flip Effects and automatically re-Set themselves during each End Phase, which means that if you know your opponent has a dangerous Strike you can leave the least useful ones, or the ones with the best Graveyard effects, at the end of the Chain. Then, if they do wind up in the Graveyard, consistency effects happen.

 

While archetypal members exist purely in the Main Deck, the wide variety of monsters at various Levels mean that your Extra Deck is, again, a matter of preference- any generic Synchros and Xyz are within relatively easy reach, and the Type-locked ones aren't too much of a stretch depending on the Types you're talking about.

[The Nyx Avatar]

Tendrilium

 

Depending on your tastes in fiction, this archetype will make you think of either Rapture or Atlantis.

 

This WATER archetype isn't particularly picky regarding its Types, using a wide range, but has a subgroup name for each monster Type it uses (Tendrilium Overminds are the Psychics, Tendrilium Terrors are the Sea Serpents, Tendrilium Abominations are the Machines, etc) and most members, rather than supporting the entire archetype, help a subgroup or cluster of subgroups with consistency or power effects. They've got a defined "underwater magitek" feel to them, where every member has gold, black, and silver armor covered with color-coded TRON lines, or just individual dots of light.

 

While being a very big archetype, they actually have a relatively well-defined playstyle that makes monster choice really just a matter of preference, given that most of the subgroups have vague equivalents to one another: Floating FLIP. Similar to Subterrors, they have dangerous, removal-based (be it field clearing, hand nuking, or basically D.D. Crow) Flip Effects and automatically re-Set themselves during each End Phase, which means that if you know your opponent has a dangerous Strike you can leave the least useful ones, or the ones with the best Graveyard effects, at the end of the Chain. Then, if they do wind up in the Graveyard, consistency effects happen.

 

While archetypal members exist purely in the Main Deck, the wide variety of monsters at various Levels mean that your Extra Deck is, again, a matter of preference- any generic Synchros and Xyz are within relatively easy reach, and the Type-locked ones aren't too much of a stretch depending on the Types you're talking about.

Anything else?

 

I also take art into account. If I don't find any art that fits the bill, I drop it.

[ChampionZero]

Sharklord 
Making ZeXal fans happy with the best support they could have hoped for. WATER Fish-Type monsters that use some of Gagaga's Level-changing shenanigans to make their scattered Levels, from 3 to 8, work well. Not only that, they borrow ways to get high-Level monsters on the field from Photon/Galaxy and Dragon Rulers, and they even borrow the Darklord/Felgrand support ideas, with extra effects they only get if Summoned from the Graveyard, and Graveyard recovery by the bucketload. Their own Xyz are a little lacking, with only 1 or 2 at each Rank they're capable of making, but that's okay because of the sheer amount of generic Xyz they have access to. Then, of course, given that you have more generic ways to get them into the Graveyard than you can shake a stick at . . . if your opponent has no negation or Special Summon-blocking, you basically just win. 

 

These are a good one, assuming they haven't been made during my comatose state. Also the below are DARK but they kinda depend on WATER monsters.

 

Darkraken 

DARK Sea Serpents, summoned via "Rank-Up Magic Depth Force", using those Xyz monsters that our favourite Barian Emperor loves so much! These guys have a bit of Raidraptor syndrome, in that they gain a special OPT effect when they have a WATER Xyz Monster attached as material. They lack S/T support beyond their Rank-Up, but that's OK, because their own effects are good for countering your opponent's Spells and Traps. Still, use them sparingly, because while they are powerful, they're also resource-consuming, so being prepared for a counter-attack is a good idea.

[The Nyx Avatar]

Sharklord 

Making ZeXal fans happy with the best support they could have hoped for. WATER Fish-Type monsters that use some of Gagaga's Level-changing shenanigans to make their scattered Levels, from 3 to 8, work well. Not only that, they borrow ways to get high-Level monsters on the field from Photon/Galaxy and Dragon Rulers, and they even borrow the Darklord/Felgrand support ideas, with extra effects they only get if Summoned from the Graveyard, and Graveyard recovery by the bucketload. Their own Xyz are a little lacking, with only 1 or 2 at each Rank they're capable of making, but that's okay because of the sheer amount of generic Xyz they have access to. Then, of course, given that you have more generic ways to get them into the Graveyard than you can shake a stick at . . . if your opponent has no negation or Special Summon-blocking, you basically just win. 

 

These are a good one, assuming they haven't been made during my comatose state. Also the below are DARK but they kinda depend on WATER monsters.

 

Darkraken 

DARK Sea Serpents, summoned via "Rank-Up Magic Depth Force", using those Xyz monsters that our favourite Barian Emperor loves so much! These guys have a bit of Raidraptor syndrome, in that they gain a special OPT effect when they have a WATER Xyz Monster attached as material. They lack S/T support beyond their Rank-Up, but that's OK, because their own effects are good for countering your opponent's Spells and Traps. Still, use them sparingly, because while they are powerful, they're also resource-consuming, so being prepared for a counter-attack is a good idea.

Former one, as I specified WATER.

 

However, I've looked and did not find sufficient enough art.