Archetype Generator Meta

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Well, the Main Deck beasts have an inverse ATK/DEF pattern (which is reverse of their respective riders). That's about it, but otherwise, it's no big deal. 

 

I mean, it's simple for me because I made the Archetype.

 

Riders ascend in Level with increasing ATK and lowered DEF.

Beasts run an inverted pattern, higher ATK and lower DEF than their rider, then the pattern inverts. (Pulu Nai'a has 1000/2100, so...) 

 

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Again, it's not a big deal. I probably broke my own pattern at some point.

[Draconus297]

I just checked them, and I don't see any such pattern. But hey, c'est la vie.

 

Anyway, yeah. I think that designing support for other things has actually been more fun than designing my own archetypes, because I can merely look for gaps/flaws and patch them.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

If you looked at the Level 4 Beasts, their ATK and DEF go up or down depending on the status of their respective rider. Riders just have the increasing ATK thing. But yeah, stuff is fine. 

 

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[Draconus297]

Ah. Well, if I had followed that trend, we would have had a 2K+ Level 4 with a protective effect, and I can't even begin to think of what kind of restriction I'd need to make.

 

Anyway, I was just offhandedly thinking about how weird our metagame is going to be. Floodgates are relatively rare, effect negation is pretty cheap and easy (Scathach have a R3 Skill Drain, which probably needs addressing), Tribute removal is even more common but isn't as quick and dirty as with Kaijus, the R4 pool is more balanced in size compared to other toolbox pools (killing a lot of the sheer advantage R4 spam Decks have), and a lot more focus is given to battle (meaning defensive walls have actual value). Once I got to thinking about it, I realized that Hell Stingers (who I worried would be a Tier 1 contender with few direct checks) are probably pretty crap thanks to their low stats and inability to quickly grab their Fusion enablers without already having a Fusion.

 

I guess the only real way to know would be to actually get the whole thing up and running, but that's not happening soon.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

You could just leave it at 2200-2300 DEF and not have to leave restrictions; would have to drop the ATK to 0 or something, but that's about it. DEF usually has a larger tolerance area for where you don't have to restrict it.

 

But yeah, can't really tell how our meta will go unless we upload everything to that platform you want, OR, test run on DP (but that has its own issues). So now we kinda know what it's like to be Konami when deciding ban lists.

[The Nyx Avatar]

Highest DEF monsters that I remember with least restrictions:

 

 

[Eshai]

PPPFFFFTTT WHERE HAVE I BEEN? 2600 DEF???? Jeez.

[The Nyx Avatar]

PPPFFFFTTT WHERE HAVE I BEEN? 2600 DEF???? Jeez.

Well, it came from TCG as opposed to OCG, and was during the advent of Pendulum monsters, as opposed to how they are now. So the restriction had more relevance back then.

[Draconus297]

So, while I go do that, a fun fact for you all:

 

I don't know how to alter the Tag Force code (the basis for what will be agmyugioh.net whenever it gets approved) to remove too many win conditions (apparently they hold the code together or something), so I gave us another instant win, and went with the most harmless one I could think of: Destiny Board.

[Tinkerer]

So how many irl Special Win conditions does that mean we have? 2?

 

Also, does that mean we have Dark Sanctuary or nah?

[The Nyx Avatar]

So how many irl Special Win conditions does that mean we have? 2?

 

Also, does that mean we have Dark Sanctuary or nah?

That sounds awesome. Can we put Dark Sanctuary up for vote?

[Draconus297]

Dark Sanctuary, as a single, only requires one vote. Added.

 

And yes, we have two. Vennominaga and Destiny Board.

[Draconus297]

Updated queue, with a little question:

Infernity (2/3 - Eshai, Kyumi)

Raidraptor (2/3 - Kyumi, Draconus)

 

How would everyone feel about only adding a piece of the Magician Pendulum archetype? That is, only the Zarc-related ones (Double Iris, Black Fang, White Wing, Violet Poison, Astrograph, Chronograph, and the 'gazers mentioned in their card text, plus the Pendulumgraphs because they're specifically mentioned in Double Iris's text)? I would want to do it this way for three reasons:

●1: This deprives the currently TCG meta Deck of its bigger, scarier playmakers- Timestar, Harmonizing, Pendulum Call, and Skullcrobat Joker- making them less of an immediately dominant force.

●2: This makes Z-ARC mildly simpler to Summon, but not just utter EZ-mode; a more practical boss that is still an actual challenge to fight against.

●3: It'd be a relatively simple and concise set of splashable Pendulums as an engine in case a Deck wanted it.

 

Also, Tinkerer, do you intend to resume work on your Legacy thread?

[Tinkerer]

Yeah, I plan to. I'd have to repost it though methinks.

 

...or maybe I'll just make a second thread and throw a link back to the first one. That'll probably be cleaner anyway.

 

Anyways, I can probably put together a rough banlist for the generics just to get our feet wet and through testing we can alter it as needed.

[Draconus297]

Generally, here's what I know needs touching on the banlist:

 

Library of Sanctuary. Probably getting itself limited, because both players searching literally any Spell is silly, and making all Normal Spells Main Phase handtraps is asking for abuse.

 

Sinister Madness. JESUS, AND I THOUGHT WE DIDN'T HAVE MANY FLOODGATES.

 

Automatic Deployment Ramp. Uh, no. Limited at best.

 

Pheromone Empress LV 9. Stealing an entire board isn't okay.

 

The Mark of Lernaeus. This smells vaguely like bullshit.

 

Monster Vaccine. Anyone can become immune to anything!

 

Fireburst Cemetery. Ohai Chaos Emperor Dragon.

 

Hand of the Nameless Deity. DRAW! ALL THE CARDS!

 

Alchemic Modification Plant.

 

Gold Dust.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

To be fair, I think I did make Deployment Ramp when we weren't as congested (or had a ton of generics in here). And yeah, a handful of you probably added more to it. (If not, I can probably just add a hard OPT to the first effect too.)

 

Do NOT make changes on your own.

[Draconus297]

Nah, I didn't plan on changing any card text, except maybe for clarification/cleanup (ie, I apparently used to believe "may" was acceptable in card text). If a creator wants to step forward and offer an edit for cards, they can go right on ahead, but until then . . . we just hit 'em with the banhammer. For example, I know that Library of Sanctuary was supposed to support something, which makes me hesitant to make any changes before I accidentally take away the reason it existed in the first place. Unfortunately, past-me didn't leave many notes.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

For our purposes, I'll just make Ramp hard OPT on both (that usually balances out stuff, but then again, it also depends on you guys not making broken Machine decks that break it). Will fix the OCG accordingly when time permits for me. 

 

Rest of the cards on the hit list are up to you guys to fix, though I assume that a few of those are from ex-members.

[Draconus297]

I can make that fix EZPZ ("you can only activate each effect of this card's name once per turn"), no need for you to worry about it if you don't have to, and you've confirmed that that's the edit you want to make.

 

Also, hilariously, Insects are building up a bit of an attack-loss theme here at the AGM. Several Hell Stingers weaken the opponent's monsters, we have the Ultimate Insect line, the Silvermoth line, and now Corrosive Scales . . . if I were half decent at putting a solid Deck together, I would see just how far I could go with that.

 

Another offhand thing I noticed is that no one is picking the low-hanging fruit of making an AGM DARK Deck. It is stupidly easy at this point, too- Amazoni, Scathach, Nightmare Engine, Sclera Guild, Shaddolls, Predaplants, Lunalights, Phantom Knights, Cyberdark, Malefics, the entire Venom support line I made, Supreme King, Sorcery Hydras, the Brimstone Main Deck, Destiny HEROs . . . you are NOT hurting for cards.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

You can only use each effect of "Automatic Deployment Ramp" once per turn.

 

 

Yeah, this is the correct wording. (Granted, I do go back and forth between "proper" PSCT and the hybrid one, but ultimately they mean the same) Make sure you put it either at the start or the end. 

 

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But then again, we aren't getting any new member applications either, so... Oh hell, Sclera Guild is easy to make DARK deck around.

[Draconus297]

Beyond new members, it's a pretty easy 1000 Points, and bragging rights if nothing else.

 

Yeah, the line with the hybrid is kinda unclear, but of the newer terminology, I've latched onto "Transfer" and "this card's name", because they simplify/shorten card text without looking awkward (looking at you + 1+ and GY).

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I know someone complained about "this card's name" because that's used for OCG writing (Bellringer), but yeah, it does save some keystrokes in the long run, especially if you have a ton of accented characters.

 

But yeah, a lot of the changes I don't particularly agree with (well, at least with the GY part; pretty sure most of us just say Grave in common play, so...that would've been more intuitive). IDK, go rip Tewart apart about it. 

[Draconus297]

So, I've fixed the Pheromone Empress LV line, mostly by weakening their protection a bit so that they can, in fact, be killed. It was my design, but it took hindsight to realize how busted they were initially.

 

By the by, while I'm discussing LV, here's their presence thus far:

Silent Magician (and outside buddy) - Spellcaster

Armed Dragon (and ADCC, plus 1 outside buddy along the lines of "Silent Magician") - Dragon

Ultimate Insect (plus 1 new member) - Insect

Dark Mimic - Fiend

AGM-original lines: Librariangel - Fairy, Lizard Thief - Reptile, Pheromone Empress - Insect, Crunchkraken - Sea Serpent

The "All-Splice" archetype - Aqua, Pyro, Dinosaur, Winged Beast

Level Up!

Level Down!?

AGM-original support: Tuner's LV, LV Soul, LV Transfer

Notice anything?

[Draconus297]

Since I don't think the queue has been up since Tinkerer has returned, here's a reminder:

 

Infernity (2/3 - Eshai, Kyumi)

Raidraptors (2/3 - Kyumi, Draconus)

Princess Plants (1/2 - Draconus)

[xlArisenRoselx]

What are "Princess Plants"?