Archetype Generator Meta

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Ideally, you should run triple Tenki or whatever the maximum is permitted by the banlists (though we don't really have one, and I gave up making one a long time ago when the sets were smaller), but you should be okay with 2 since Recruitment is gold. And yes, Sogdo opened up Synchro options.

 

(You should meet the monster requirement without difficulty)

[xlArisenRoselx]

Obviously not, since every monster in my MD is WIND. (Unless one of the Kitsunes is not, don't remember.) My ED is mostly WIND as well, so shouldn't give me problems....

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Matsuri is LIGHT, but other than that, rest are WINDs. Same with Numerix-092 and Lucario; EARTH, but they work well enough. (Oh hell, 92 helps with speed so that probably alleviates a few more searchers you'll need.)

 

But overall, Draco holds your fate in his hands; I can't do much about it at this point.

[xlArisenRoselx]

All I can do now is hope. And pray.

[Eshai]

If it's a boss Deck we should do it similar to how Metaphys did it, since I think they did it the coolest. I don't think we have to do 3000 ATK/DEF for each of them. Probably could have 3000 ATK or DEF, and have the LV 4s (if we have them) have a combined stat of 3000 (ex. 1800 ATK, 1200 DEF). 

 

If we're doing the Zodiac thing I think we should focus more on the seasonal aspect, with the solstices as the bosses, with the other 2 within the season as rather mini-bosses or supporters.

 

Not quite sure of a mechanic gimmick the archetype could have, or the name, but I could think of some later.

[Draconus297]

I had actually had a neat idea regarding a gimmick for them, actually- a Deck of pure bosses, similar to something like Timelords or Malefic Skill Drain.

 

Basically, each one can be Summoned 3 different ways- NS without Tributing, which saddles them with a restriction; actual Normal Summon; and a Special Summon by Tributing another of the archetype, which grants some sort of bonus (ie, say a hypothetical Libra/Snake halves the stats of your opponent's entire board when brought out this way, or whatever got combined with the Rat Special Summons another from your Graveyard a la Frightfur Sabre-Tooth).

 

I'm not saying they all have to have the 3K shtick- I'm doing Dictator Dragon for my 3K- but within the past couple hours I had a bit of a brainwave.

 

Anyway, I'm giving up on Seven Deadly Swords. Not no, but hell no. Anyone who wants to finish the project, you can take my design notes if you want, but I just did not like the way it just did not like being made. Too many gimmicks- Gemini, Equip Spells, single-monster Fusion, support monsters with a defined naming scheme . . . ugh.

 

So, that said, I'm thinking of doing Tygrr. But, in the meantime, I'm going to look at non-Effect Rituals, because A Little Alliteritual doubles their stats if all three copies are in the Graveyard. So far, we only have The Masked Beast, Magician of Black Chaos, and BLS.

[Eshai]

You can pm me the design notes and I'll look into it. I could probably give you one of my projects seeing as most of mine are half done. 

 

If you're going to have Normal Summon without Tribute, you could probably do something along the lines of the Metaphys Field Spell or the Catalyst Field.

 

Tbh my idea of the archetype was that there would be 4 bosses (solstices) that would switch from Season to Season in a similar way to how I did my Roid Chain Beat, where they could Quick-play tribute or banish themselves to Special Summon another of the boss monsters from Hand, Deck, GY, or Banished (location is dependent on the card, and they would all have a "with a different name" clause). 

 

This would probably be well synergized with your idea since we could have it that they can Normal Summon without Tributing, but their attack is decreased and their effects are negated for an amount of time. Maybe we could also have the Field Spell say "the effects of "archetype" cannot be negated" so that it gives protection while simultaneously making them more consistent.

 

The setup would be similar to Dragon Rulers where they would have 4 prophets/summoners, which would be lower level monsters that bring them out in such a way that isn't broken af and generic as the original Dragon Rulers.

 

There would also be 4 Spell/Traps representing the tradition of Seasons (February, May, August, November) that would support the archetype in some way.

 

I'd rather there be some variety between who's who, especially so we can get it to be a working archetype. It also means we don't have to go through the nightmare of making 12 unique interconnected boss monsters.

 

 

<Also should post the Affinfinity rather today or tomorrow. They seem balanced at the moment but I'm a bit skeptical. They should be an interesting addition either way.>

[Eshai]

Btw Through Infinity (your opponent draws 2 cards, end the current phase) is a bit broken with Grand Horn of Heaven (which also negates an inherent summon, draws your opponent cards, and ends the main phase) so it's probably going to just not exist anymore. Other than that everything is pretty balanced as far as I can tell. Maybe 1 card is a bit amazing but it wasn't doing anything if I was winning.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

After I finally got bothered to code Skateboard Dragons for YGOPro (praise based Subterror Guru), I realized that they REALLY need a power-up. So yeah, may need to design more stuff for them (which may include a few more ways to summon stuff). And yes, they are Ritual based so...

 

For personal reasons, still need to get their signature "target themselves and other monster; change to Defense Position" effects on YGOPro; somehow they aren't working.

[Eshai]

Yay I'm done with Affinfinity (for now at least)

 

https://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/366725-affinfinity-changing-everything-you-know-about-card-value-agm/

 

If someone would review that would be nice.

[Eshai]

Will be working on Ignition Beasts, and then I'm probably going to prep my Majestic Mech Errata/Retrains and the Aikon Archetype I made so long ago for the AGM. Anything else I'm doing will be listed in "Archetype/Ideas I'm working on at the moment" in my signature.

 

Also is there a reason why Fossil Dyna's are still not on the AGM archetype list?

[Draconus297]

They're in the "accepted outside" portion, because they're not from a Game prompt. I did the same thing to Sclera Guild, even though it was made by a half-dozen AGM members.

[The Nyx Avatar]

Will be working on Ignition Beasts, and then I'm probably going to prep my Majestic Mech Errata/Retrains and the Aikon Archetype I made so long ago for the AGM. Anything else I'm doing will be listed in "Archetype/Ideas I'm working on at the moment" in my signature.

 

Also is there a reason why Fossil Dyna's are still not on the AGM archetype list?

Lack of interest or had forgotten about. Though, as any other card or archetype, just suggest it here and we'll usually put it up for a vote.

They're in the "accepted outside" portion, because they're not from a Game prompt. I did the same thing to Sclera Guild, even though it was made by a half-dozen AGM members.

Never mind.

[Draconus297]

After studying Affinfinity, I'm not entirely sure regarding it (the counter I had thought it had in Envious Ogre isn't there), but it's not completely stupid, so . . . I don't know.

 

Also, a new segment: Card of the Week. Here, I'll discuss an individual, generic card (either from the Generics thread or a generically accessible archetypal card), to encourage discussion on it and possibly encourage buffing/nerfing. This week, the card that I had thought would fight Affinfinity: Envious Ogre.

 

Envious Ogre

DARK - Level 5 - Fiend/Effect - 0/1000

Cannot be Normal Summoned. If a card effect adds a card(s) to your opponent's hand: You can Special Summon this monster from your hand or Graveyard. Your opponent cannot activate cards or effects from their hand. If your opponent has more cards in their hand than you do, this monster gains 500 ATK times the difference between the number of cards in your opponent's hand and the number of cards in your hand.

 

Now, this introduces something pretty important to the AGM: it cuts out the redundant "but can be Normal Set" text, because if something doesn't specify inability, the assumption is that they can. I have done this a few different ways- for example, I've also cut down the uncomfortably long piercing clause into "this monster inflicts piercing Battle Damage". This saves space so we don't need to do things like the new Synchro Material text (1 + 1+ just looks really weird) or "GY".

 

As for Envious Ogre itself, its primary function is to kill hand traps of all sorts, as well as Decks like Show Jumpers, Space Cruisers, and Brimstone, that Special Summon themselves from the hand frequently. It also encourages a handless build, because even without Infinite Cards it can quickly become a 3K beater with how much it can turn your opponent's hands into a massive brick. With Infinite Cards, if you are good enough at clearing your own hand and your opponent is unlucky enough to be playing Space Cruisers, it can be a very quirky OTK machine.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Leaving as reminder to review that Archetype because I said I'd do it after handling my part of the group lab I have for material mechanics.

 

====

Then again, I do have some skepticism on how Envious Ogre would be in terms of the actual game, but likely because I'm from the generation of users that says "floodgates are bad design". I mean, yeah, it does sheet on hand traps (RIP Yuki, Fuyu, Haru Urara, etc) and everything else is fine, but yeah. Then again, Show Jumpers are still incomplete.

 

I would say that it requires some form of OPT on its summoning, or definitely restriction on where it can be summoned; otherwise things can/will get crazy on it.

[The Nyx Avatar]

After studying Affinfinity, I'm not entirely sure regarding it (the counter I had thought it had in Envious Ogre isn't there), but it's not completely stupid, so . . . I don't know.

 

Also, a new segment: Card of the Week. Here, I'll discuss an individual, generic card (either from the Generics thread or a generically accessible archetypal card), to encourage discussion on it and possibly encourage buffing/nerfing. This week, the card that I had thought would fight Affinfinity: Envious Ogre.

 

Envious Ogre

DARK - Level 5 - Fiend/Effect - 0/1000

Cannot be Normal Summoned. If a card effect adds a card(s) to your opponent's hand: You can Special Summon this monster from your hand or Graveyard. Your opponent cannot activate cards or effects from their hand. If your opponent has more cards in their hand than you do, this monster gains 500 ATK times the difference between the number of cards in your opponent's hand and the number of cards in your hand.

 

Now, this introduces something pretty important to the AGM: it cuts out the redundant "but can be Normal Set" text, because if something doesn't specify inability, the assumption is that they can. I have done this a few different ways- for example, I've also cut down the uncomfortably long piercing clause into "this monster inflicts piercing Battle Damage". This saves space so we don't need to do things like the new Synchro Material text (1 + 1+ just looks really weird) or "GY".

 

As for Envious Ogre itself, its primary function is to kill hand traps of all sorts, as well as Decks like Show Jumpers, Space Cruisers, and Brimstone, that Special Summon themselves from the hand frequently. It also encourages a handless build, because even without Infinite Cards it can quickly become a 3K beater with how much it can turn your opponent's hands into a massive brick. With Infinite Cards, if you are good enough at clearing your own hand and your opponent is unlucky enough to be playing Space Cruisers, it can be a very quirky OTK machine.

The ATK increase effect is fine, the restriction to hand effects and activation is fine; your opponent can just Set their Spell Cards. Though yeah; with being able to Summon itself from the Graveyard too, I'd say it needs a strict "once per turn" clause. Or omit the Graveyard part.

[Eshai]

Envious Ogre might work, but I don't really think the Deck needs it since I already made an anti-hand trap card, which is also a Tuner.

 

Affinfinity Soulstone

LIGHT - Level 1 - Rock/Tuner/Effect - 300 ATK/200 DEF

While you control a “Affinfinity” monster, you can reveal this card in your hand (Quick Effect): Add this to your opponent’s hand (keep this card revealed).

Negate the effects of other monsters in your hand the turn this card was revealed.

If this card is discarded and sent to your GY, you can Special Summon it.

You can only use each effect of “Affinfinity Soulstone” once per turn.

 

Might have to buff this card a bit, although while that card is a Question, this card can answer Hand Traps immediately. Might have to negate "the activation of effects" rather than effects.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

More generics have been added (well, I added a new batch of ED, sans Cheetah Archer, and Eshai has a new Zombie card).

Also reviewed as promised.

 

====

P.S. Adding a new Field and Ritual to "Skateboard Dragon" made them suck less on YGOPro, though I need to get their 2nd effects working (ones that pertain to burn/destroy stuff when stuff gets flipped up). 

 

(So...I kinda have a legacy thing, but mostly for self right now)

[Eshai]

If you're going to have Normal Summon without Tribute, you could probably do something along the lines of the Metaphys Field Spell or the Catalyst Field.

 

Tbh my idea of the archetype was that there would be 4 bosses (solstices) that would switch from Season to Season in a similar way to how I did my Roid Chain Beat, where they could Quick-play tribute or banish themselves to Special Summon another of the boss monsters from Hand, Deck, GY, or Banished (location is dependent on the card, and they would all have a "with a different name" clause). 

 

This would probably be well synergized with your idea since we could have it that they can Normal Summon without Tributing, but their attack is decreased and their effects are negated for an amount of time. Maybe we could also have the Field Spell say "the effects of "archetype" cannot be negated" so that it gives protection while simultaneously making them more consistent.

 

The setup would be similar to Dragon Rulers where they would have 4 prophets/summoners, which would be lower level monsters that bring them out in such a way that isn't broken af and generic as the original Dragon Rulers.

 

There would also be 4 Spell/Traps representing the tradition of Seasons (February, May, August, November) that would support the archetype in some way.

 

I'd rather there be some variety between who's who, especially so we can get it to be a working archetype. It also means we don't have to go through the nightmare of making 12 unique interconnected boss monsters.

 

Didn't get an answer on whether or not this was a good idea for the 3k anniversary archetype. Draconus would this be a fine idea?

[Draconus297]

You know what? Sure. Another AGM ego stroking archetype at 3K posts in the thread (or 2999 replies), whenever we get there. AGM Celestials or something like that. If we have a 12th member by that point, the archetype will have 12 members, but if not, only 11 monsters.

 

So, essentially, mega-Mega Monarchs, but with alternate Summoning conditions a la archetypal Dragon Rulers? Like, each of the four big, beefy bosses can revive itself by banishing any archetype member from the Graveyard (including S/T, for the lulz)?

 

This would essentially give the four bosses an effect structure-

This card can be Normal Summoned without Tributing, but [limitation]. If this monster is Tribute Summoned using an "AGM" monster(s), [bonus effect]. You can Special Summon this monster from your Graveyard by banishing 1 "AGM Celestial" card from your Graveyard.

 

But four big bosses . . . myself for starting the group, Tinkerer for making the Game, Sakura for being our only mod . . . who else?

 

But yeah, go for it, dude. Generally speaking, what I do is go by people's favorite designs- I'm always a FIRE Dragon, Sakura is always WIND, Tojin is always LIGHT, Nyx is always DARK, etc.

 

Also, fun fact: If we made a Moyufutsusa AGM monster (think Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon- a card part of multiple archetypes) that was an EARTH-Attribute Reptile with 1200/1700 stats, it would be the single most searchable card we could ever design without getting too silly, with 26 different cards that could search for it.

[Eshai]

Not exactly what I meant. More like

 

If there are any complaints about the Attribute/Type pairings now would be the time

 

Sakura - Spring - WIND/Fairy

Tojin - Summer - LIGHT/Pyro

Draconus - Fall - FIRE/Dragon

Nyx - Winter - DARK/Wyrm

 

The idea would be that they have different locations of where they go and where they Summon from when the effect is used, which from Spring to Winter is Deck, Hand, GY, Banished, repeat. Ex:

 

Tojin: Summer: Returns this card to your hand to Special Summon 1 Level 8 or higher “AGM” from your GY

Draconus: Fall: Tribute this card to Special Summon 1 of your banished Level 8 or higher “AGM” monsters.

Nyx: Winter: Banish this card to Special Summon 1 Level 8 or higher “AGM” monster from your Deck

Sakura: Spring: Return this card to the Deck to Special Summon 1 Level 8 or higher “AGM” monster from your hand

 

My idea for the trigger for these effects is that they would work like my Roid Chain Beat monsters, where it would rather be that when something, in particular, happens "i.e. when a monster declares an attack, when your opponent activates a Spell/Trap, when your opponent Normal or Special Summons a monster, whatever else depending on which card it is." Another trigger on top of that would be whenever a card or effect within the archetype would be used, so each of the card's effects can change to each other, but idk whether or not that's broken. 

 

Example of a boss w/o a unique effect, with only the gimmicks given to the higher level monsters in the archetype.

 

Nyx the Winter Solstice

DARK - Level 9 - Wyrm/Effect - 2600 ATK/3400 DEF

You can Normal Summon/Set this card without Tributing, but its original ATK and DEF become 1500 and it cannot activate its effects until the end of the next turn. When your opponent activates a Spell/Trap card or effect, or when another “Solstice” card or effect is activated: You can banish this card to Special Summon 1 Level 8 or higher “AGM” monster with a different name from your Deck in Attack Position. You can only use this effect of “Nyx the Winter Solstice” once per turn.

 

Whether the monster is Summoned in Attack or Defense Position is dependent on which stat is higher for the next Season, so you're motivated to keep the Season in order but you don't necessarily have to.

 

There's probably some balance issues (like how do you get rid of them) but after I figure out the rest of the archetype it should be balanced.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I'm more of a Warrior or Dragon-Type; Fairy doesn't fit.

 

But yeah, Nyx is the only other member in this club besides myself, Draco and Tinkerer (speaking of which, he's still MIA) who even contributes anything; in terms of the originals who joined before the Deck challenges, etc. 

 

===

I'd probably prefer ED bosses, but new rules obviously suck. (There's a reason why the Legacy tag exists, and it's not just for our use only.)

[Draconus297]

My question is . . . why?

 

Why the ability to Normal Set without Tributing, without a way to take advantage of it? Why the wonky tag-out effects that push you into a specific order? You're overthinking the gimmick a fair bit, and anything overthought will typically wind up busted or useless.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Probably for thematics, but either way, those types of designs tend not to do too well in the current game because too much setup and obviously stuff got much faster. This is also why a lot of the common Decks are generally autopilot; bland as they are, you know they can put out consistent boards without being bricky. 

 

(Not saying some of the lesser Archetypes cannot do the same, but yeah, sometimes you have to break the prompt a bit to make them viable and not reliant on absurd gimmicks. I've done it a few times with AGM prompts that Draco and a few others have given. Oh hell, I completely deviated from the one ChampionZero gave the YCM mod project, even if it did turn into Nekroz 2.0)

[The Nyx Avatar]

 

Not exactly what I meant. More like

 

If there are any complaints about the Attribute/Type pairings now would be the time

 

Sakura - Spring - WIND/Fairy

Tojin - Summer - LIGHT/Pyro

Draconus - Fall - FIRE/Dragon

Nyx - Winter - DARK/Wyrm

 

The idea would be that they have different locations of where they go and where they Summon from when the effect is used, which from Spring to Winter is Deck, Hand, GY, Banished, repeat. Ex:

 

 

Tojin: Summer: Returns this card to your hand to Special Summon 1 Level 8 or higher “AGM” from your GY

Draconus: Fall: Tribute this card to Special Summon 1 of your banished Level 8 or higher “AGM” monsters.

Nyx: Winter: Banish this card to Special Summon 1 Level 8 or higher “AGM” monster from your DeckSakura: Spring: Return this card to the Deck to Special Summon 1 Level 8 or higher “AGM” monster from your hand

 

My idea for the trigger for these effects is that they would work like my Roid Chain Beat monsters, where it would rather be that when something, in particular, happens "i.e. when a monster declares an attack, when your opponent activates a Spell/Trap, when your opponent Normal or Special Summons a monster, whatever else depending on which card it is." Another trigger on top of that would be whenever a card or effect within the archetype would be used, so each of the card's effects can change to each other, but idk whether or not that's broken.

 

Example of a boss w/o a unique effect, with only the gimmicks given to the higher level monsters in the archetype.

 

 

Nyx the Winter Solstice

DARK - Level 9 - Wyrm/Effect - 2600 ATK/3400 DEF

You can Normal Summon/Set this card without Tributing, but its original ATK and DEF become 1500 and it cannot activate its effects until the end of the next turn. When your opponent activates a Spell/Trap card or effect, or when another “Solstice” card or effect is activated: You can banish this card to Special Summon 1 Level 8 or higher “AGM” monster with a different name from your Deck in Attack Position. You can only use this effect of “Nyx the Winter Solstice” once per turn.

 

Whether the monster is Summoned in Attack or Defense Position is dependent on which stat is higher for the next Season, so you're motivated to keep the Season in order but you don't necessarily have to.

 

There's probably some balance issues (like how do you get rid of them) but after I figure out the rest of the archetype it should be balanced.

I'm fine with DARK, but Fiend is more of my forte. Second most I've done is Warrior, I think. Not to say I haven't made any Wyrms, but it's still just a few; I'd say I made more Dragons than Wyrms.

You know what? Sure. Another AGM ego stroking archetype at 3K posts in the thread (or 2999 replies), whenever we get there. AGM Celestials or something like that. If we have a 12th member by that point, the archetype will have 12 members, but if not, only 11 monsters.

 

So, essentially, mega-Mega Monarchs, but with alternate Summoning conditions a la archetypal Dragon Rulers? Like, each of the four big, beefy bosses can revive itself by banishing any archetype member from the Graveyard (including S/T, for the lulz)?

 

This would essentially give the four bosses an effect structure-

This card can be Normal Summoned without Tributing, but [limitation]. If this monster is Tribute Summoned using an "AGM" monster(s), [bonus effect]. You can Special Summon this monster from your Graveyard by banishing 1 "AGM Celestial" card from your Graveyard.

 

But four big bosses . . . myself for starting the group, Tinkerer for making the Game, Sakura for being our only mod . . . who else?

 

But yeah, go for it, dude. Generally speaking, what I do is go by people's favorite designs- I'm always a FIRE Dragon, Sakura is always WIND, Tojin is always LIGHT, Nyx is always DARK, etc.

 

Also, fun fact: If we made a Moyufutsusa AGM monster (think Galaxy-Eyes Photon Dragon- a card part of multiple archetypes) that was an EARTH-Attribute Reptile with 1200/1700 stats, it would be the single most searchable card we could ever design without getting too silly, with 26 different cards that could search for it.

Well, not always DARK. Usually yes, but a lot of others I've done are LIGHT.