Number S39: Utopia the Lightning

[CLG Klavier]

3 Level 5 LIGHT monsters
You can also Xyz Summon this card by using a Rank 4 "Utopia" monster you control as the Xyz Material. (Xyz Materials attached to that monster also become Xyz Materials on this card.) Cannot be used as an Xyz Material for an Xyz Summon. If this card attacks or is attacked, your opponent cannot activate cards or effects until the end of the Damage Step. If this card battles an opponent's monster while it has a "Utopia" monster as an Xyz Material, during damage calculation (in either player's turn): You can detach 2 Xyz Materials from this card once per battle; this card's ATK becomes 5000 during that damage calculation only.

 

I'm making this thread to discuss one topic:

 

Rank 4s aren't good anymore.

 

Call me crazy, but I really believe that with the fall of Lavalval Chain, we no longer have powerful rank 4s. Yeah, Castel, Dweller and Exciton are all great cards. Number 80, Number 103, they're all there. But those cards aren't "good". They're all slightly underwhelming and are usually situational. Of course they're a great toolbox of answers, but what rank 4 is out there to be dropped as an offensive option?

 

I mean yeah, Performages have Trapeze Magician for an offensive option. There's something like Gagaga Samurai, Delteros in whatever deck it can be made. But it's really been a while since we had a flat-out powerful rank 4, a one that makes you go "I'm funked" when you see it.

 

Is that bad? I don't think so, because it kinda balances the game. Yean, rank 4 decks are everywhere and annoying, but they're seriously narrowed down to more reactive options lately. The ones that are proactive are usually on the slightly weaker side. Utopia the Lightning is the powerful rank 4 TCG currently lacks, and I'd argue Traptrix Rafflesia is one too. Is it good or bad? No idea.

 

Anyways, I'm kinda rambling here, but discuss S39.

[玄魔の王]

There should never BE a Rank 4 that spells game just for hitting the board because they're piss-easy to make. It's like if LV5 Synchros meant game circa 2009.

 

Also, you clearly don't know how stron Triverr is.

[CLG Klavier]

There should never BE a Rank 4 that spells game just for hitting the board because they're piss-easy to make. It's like if LV5 Synchros meant game circa 2009.

 

Also, you clearly don't know how stron Triverr is.

I'm not saying about spelling game. I'm saying about one that actually gives you power, rather than "Oh I'll answer your thing with my smaller thing".

 

Also I completly forgot about Triverr but then he's a Tellar exclusive so.

[ENMaker]

Don't see how requiring your opponent to have a card on the field makes 101, Castel or Exciton underwhelming and situational. Absorbing any monster, shuffling anything back, clearing the board are effects that aren't good? Sir, you have lost my business.

[CLG Klavier]

funking hell. Let me rephrase the opening post because no one gets it.

[ENMaker]

I get it and do not agree.

[ihop]

Rank 4s have always been reactive compared to other ranks. Doesn't make em weak especially since most rank 4 spam decks have ridiculously good specific cards. What makes this card worth the 2 extra deck slots, btw?

[evilfusion]

Really, if you can unironically state that Rank 4 is somewhat underwhelming, THAT'S GOOD.

 

Rank 4 is one of the most flexible Ranks and numerous Rank 4 Decks and archetypes have been made. So the fact the majority of them are relatively balanced in terms of damage output or effect is a good thing.

 

I disagree that Rank 4 isn't good, but I view Rank 4s as a toolbox type thing, that relies on flexibility more than one specific power play. That's one reason I adore Heraldics as a Deck. They're Rank 4 spam, and can create options for almost any situation, or for further setup so that they later can drop deadly combos.

 

Utopia Decks are fascinating in how flexible they theoretically can be. They're very aggressive by comparison, but they eat up Extra Deck slots like candy due to how many evolutions there are, and tend to have a reliance on Rank-Up Magics. So Utopia Decks are more focused on aggressive plays, but are predictable and sacrifice the flexibility that most other Rank 4 Decks provide.

[CLG Klavier]

I get it and do not agree.

Name me a single rank 4 in the game you can make as your opening game play that can threaten an opponent. That's what I mean. Rank 4s are reactive as sheet and if your opponent doesn't have a threat on the board, you can't do a thing and have to wait for them to do something. You're not gonna make a naked Castel, a naked Triverr, or whatever.

 

Rank 4s have always been reactive compared to other ranks. Doesn't make em weak especially since most rank 4 spam decks have ridiculously good specific cards. What makes this card worth the 2 extra deck slots, btw?

Well, maybe it's more of an issue with how the game evolved than the cards themselves since back in the day opening Utopia was a thing. Guess it comes from that: rank 4s were always reactive, but back in the day, you could get away with opening with them anyways.

 

Also it goes over anything, so there's that. OCG really seems to like it, and from my testing in a few DNCG decks, it packs quite a punch. It kills Dante, Shaddolls, etc. without making them float and is immune to Mirror Force or whatever your opponent might have there.

[玄魔の王]

I'm not saying about spelling game. I'm saying about one that actually gives you power, rather than "Oh I'll answer your thing with my smaller thing".

 

Also I completly forgot about Triverr but then he's a Tellar exclusive so.

If you mean power in the sense of ATK, Dark Rebellion Xyz Dragon. If you mean furthers your own plays, Gear Gigant X and King of the Feral Imps. You're being vague as to what constitutes "power".

[CLG Klavier]

Really, if you can unironically state that Rank 4 is somewhat underwhelming, THAT'S GOOD.

 

Rank 4 is one of the most flexible Ranks and numerous Rank 4 Decks and archetypes have been made. So the fact the majority of them are relatively balanced in terms of damage output or effect is a good thing.

 

I disagree that Rank 4 isn't good, but I view Rank 4s as a toolbox type thing, that relies on flexibility more than one specific power play. That's one reason I adore Heraldics as a Deck. They're Rank 4 spam, and can create options for almost any situation, or for further setup so that they later can drop deadly combos.

 

Utopia Decks are fascinating in how flexible they theoretically can be. They're very aggressive by comparison, but they eat up Extra Deck slots like candy due to how many evolutions there are, and tend to have a reliance on Rank-Up Magics. So Utopia Decks are more focused on aggressive plays, but are predictable and sacrifice the flexibility that most other Rank 4 Decks provide.

That's why it was a honest question from my side, whether that is good or bad.

 

I remember the days when rank 4s were the sheet, and those were the days when Utopia was a good card. Opening Utopia was a legit threat. Now you can't go away with it anymore.

 

I just kinda realized it a bit ago and made me wonder.

If you mean power in the sense of ATK, Dark Rebellion Xyz Dragon. If you mean furthers your own plays, Gear Gigant X and King of the Feral Imps. You're being vague as to what constitutes "power".

Dark Rebellion Xyz Dragon is completly reactive. And since when "card's power" means ATK? Now you're just nitpicking. Card's power, power level, always refers to the overall strength on the card.

[evilfusion]

Dark Rebellion isn't threatening. It's also a reactive card, because it's only dangerous once it used its effect. You'll never make Dark Rebellion turn 1. Utopia would be better as a turn 1 play because it's a 2500 that can also serve a defensive purpose. Dark Rebellion is an offensive tactic that you want to bring out to swing the game into your favor, not leave sitting there.

 

I agree that Rank 4 doesn't have many generic "opening" plays that are threatening. Heraldics tend to go for No.18 off the bat because of the setup being phenomenal and it potentially screwing with the opponent's plays.

 

But I like that about Rank 4.

[ihop]

Well 4 years ago Utopia and Maestroke just seemed more powerful. Power creep and a shift towards anti-ED stuff means you need more.

[CLG Klavier]

Dark Rebellion isn't threatening. It's also a reactive card, because it's only dangerous once it used its effect. You'll never make Dark Rebellion turn 1. Utopia would be better as a turn 1 play because it's a 2500 that can also serve a defensive purpose. Dark Rebellion is an offensive tactic that you want to bring out to swing the game into your favor, not leave sitting there.

 

I agree that Rank 4 doesn't have many generic "opening" plays that are threatening. Heraldics tend to go for No.18 off the bat because of the setup being phenomenal and it potentially screwing with the opponent's plays.

 

But I like that about Rank 4.

Pretty much.

 

Also yeah, if it goes for archetypes/specific decks, they actually do have options. Lightsworns can make Minerva T1, Noble Knights can make Artorigus, Machine decks Gear Gigant, etc. etc. But there aren't a lot of such generic options.

 

I mean hell, S39 isn't that either. It's still a reactive card, but it's a "reactive" card that can be used offensively. Nothing to answer turn 2? Fine, I'll make S39 and swing face. Doing that with DRXD or whatever is a total waste, meanwhile this at least has a combat effect.

Well 4 years ago Utopia and Maestroke just seemed more powerful. Power creep and a shift towards anti-ED stuff means you need more.

Yeah. I really feel like some specific plays aside, Extra Deck is more of an answer tool now. Yeah, BAs have Dante, Shaddolls have their Fusions etc. but most Xyzs out there are simply just answers to your opponent, without too many offensive capabilities. TBH I like that since if this keeps up even further, they're be a parallel to Synchros which always felt a bit more agressive/proactive in their effects.

[goodfusion]

What about Number 86? He sort of just sits there stopping your opponent from doing stuff. Although as for generic R4s, idk.

[CLG Klavier]

What about Number 86? He sort of just sits there stopping your opponent from doing stuff. Although as for generic R4s, idk.

Nothing aside from Igknights can make it. 3-mat Rhongo is underwhelming as an opener since he loses his immunity by your next turn. 4-mat opener is the best one since it clogs their turn and on yours, is a 3k immune beater, but yeah, only Igknights can pull that off.

[Spinny]

I don't want a tiras for level 4s :p

I'm comparing this to tiras before we had castel BTW, as soon as we got castel it became alot less threatening.

[evilfusion]

Well 4 years ago Utopia and Maestroke just seemed more powerful. Power creep and a shift towards anti-ED stuff means you need more.

 

To be fair, back then, Rank 4 didn't have many archetypes exclusively devoted to them. They had more generic support options for pre-existing themes.

 

Maestroke and Utopia both had mixed applications. Both had defensive effects/stats (Maestroke having 2300 DEF and inability to be destroyed for an Overlay), but also aggressive use (Maestroke's Book of Moon effect, Utopia's 2500 ATK).

 

It's not just anti-ED stuff. It's that archetypes involving Xyz have evolved beyond dropping a single threat at a time. Nowadays, power plays is in the supporting cards, not the boss itself.

 

I know Shaddolls aren't Xyz-centric, but the Duel I watched involving Shaddolls yesterday showed me that the real threat with Shaddolls isn't JUST the Fusions. It's that the components for the plays are just as dangerous as the result. They keep your advantage going and have flexibility in how they attack situations. I hadn't paid Shaddolls any attention, so this detail eluded me until now.

 

Also, let's assume when we're talking about Rank 4 power plays, we're talking about GENERIC Rank 4s. Things like No.86 are Warrior-specific, so they can't just be thrown into any Deck. Lavalval Chain was generic and had numerous uses for many different Decks. King of the Feral Imps and Gigant X are for Reptiles/Machine, respectively, although Kagetokage and similar makes King more generic, it's not quite the same.

[Blake]

Rank 4s have always been reactive compared to other ranks. Doesn't make em weak especially since most rank 4 spam decks have ridiculously good specific cards. What makes this card worth the 2 extra deck slots, btw?

Towers out

 

Being a 2500 Armades at worst, 5K gamewinner at best.

 

Trapeze Magician.

 

it's probably the best "r4" not named castel (providing tcg as it'llbe here soonish)

 

R4 IS weak now. The cards really got crept. Chain and Castel were easily the strongest, and the rest is purely reactive.

 

Building R4Spam.dek is a lot harder now, as you need to be able to Xyz repeatedly in a turn or you'll fall behind, and very few R4 advance your gamestate, as opposed to reducing the opponent's.

 

King Feral, Minerva, and Bujintei Tsukuyomi are the only somewhat generic Xyz that advance your gamestate, which is what Chain did so amazingly so generically. So, it IS weaker now, as it's almost purely answers. Efficient answers, but answers all the same.

 

Even S39L is just an answer that beats face at times.

 

CyDra Infinity is moreso in advancing your state, as it makes you safer while reducing the opp, but it's not gonna be tcg for a while. S39L will be here sooner.

 

Rafflesia is notable for being a stupidly efficient Apex Avian out and general funk you. It's part of why R4 now dominates japan, along with Trapeze, Lavalval, and the other 2. And Flame Mascot, Wavering Eyes, Damage Juggler, Performapal Pendulum Sorc, and Luster Pendulum.

 

Making Damajuggler have pendulum support was a stupid idea because it means Performage pendulums >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all others because they have a good eyes out

[CLG Klavier]

R4 IS weak now. The cards really got crept. Chain and Castel were easily the strongest, and the rest is purely reactive.

 

Building R4Spam.dek is a lot harder now, as you need to be able to Xyz repeatedly in a turn or you'll fall behind, and very few R4 advance your gamestate, as opposed to reducing the opponent's.

 

King Feral, Minerva, and Bujintei Tsukuyomi are the only somewhat generic Xyz that advance your gamestate, which is what Chain did so amazingly so generically. So, it IS weaker now, as it's almost purely answers. Efficient answers, but answers all the same.

 

Rafflesia is notable for being a stupidly efficient Apex Avian and general funk you. It's part of why R4 now dominates japan, along with Trapeze, Lavalval, and the other 2.

Thank you. That's all. I knew no one will listen to what I said, but maybe now they will.

[ihop]

Dweller against some decks is also an exception. That card is OP af.

[玄魔の王]

Building R4Spam.dek is a lot harder now, as you need to be able to Xyz repeatedly in a turn or you'll fall behind, and very few R4 advance your gamestate, as opposed to reducing the opponent's.

 

You mean that thing EVERY Rank 4 Deck worth its salt can already do?

[ENMaker]

I don't understand this whole idea that being reactive makes a card weak or bad. If you're not using your stuff to respond to what your opponent is doing, then what are you doing? What generic synchro/fusion/ritual/anything is there that doesn't care what your opponent has and can be splashed wherever whenever? I mean I may be missing the point on this but I don't get that argument. If you have a deck that can always react to what your opponent does, why is that a weakness?

[evilfusion]

So Rank 4 got power crept partially because of its absurd accessibility. Again, I feel this is a good thing, as it feels more balanced, and other Ranks are getting more incredible power cards. Rank 7 was useless before D-Rulers broke them by giving them absurdly easy access. Before then, the Rank 7s were just SO powerful, but SO hard to Summon.

 

But that furthers my point that power plays are in the supporting cards. Even Heraldics (yes, I love Heraldics and will talk about them a lot) really only function so well because of Leo's search (and Heraldics have some amazing support cards like Reborn Medallion and High Medallion Arts). Leo is supporting the Rank 4 play by making sure you don't run out of cards to continue the threat, and their non-generic ace is No.8, which is scary as hell for opposing Xyz monsters, because you turn their answers/power plays against them, and still have access to your own Extra Deck of answers and support.

 

It seems that Konami is striking a much better balance between "easy to bring out" and "how much it rewards you for doing so". Even the amazingly good Rank 4s on release like 101 and Exciton were good because they shifted momentum back to you without outright clinching the game, and the other Ranks are doing better because Decks devoted to those Ranks still have some incredible power cards.

[mido9]

You mean that thing EVERY Rank 4 Deck worth its salt can already do?

Yeah but then it's not exactly the rank 4s technically being good, it's the level 4s being summoned over and over that are.