Minimum Age

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

So I was thinking about the fact that YCM has a...sorta minimum age requirement that is just not being enforced at all.

 

It's here. (Thanks Giga)

http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/privacypolicy/

 

"For that reason, we never collect or maintain information at our website from those we actually know are under 13, and no part of our website is structured to attract anyone under 13." (Heh, no part of a YGO site is structured for anyone under 13, am amused)

 

However, this isn't very clear. It could mean that you can't have an account if you're under 13, or it could mean something totally different. I'm honestly unsure of this, and it really needs to be cleared up.

 

Also if it is a minimum age requirement, should it be removed entirely?

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

The majority of members here are indeed 13 years of age or older, however yes, there are a few pre-teen members from a few observations.

Technically speaking, only thing little kids would find interesting is the card maker for bringing their creations to life. (Or the Custom Card area for showing off their creations)

 

I guess we don't enforce said min. age (if it exists) because we can't prove that said users in question (if there are any) are indeed under the age of 13 (though speech patterns + quirks might be a turnoff). That, and there aren't too many of them. (To be fair, I've only see two of them within the past year or so)

 

The privacy policy is likely just standard things that IP.Boards puts in all of their forum packages and stuff.

Given that MyBB has a similar policy in their support areas + forums, it could be interpreted as you being unable to hold an account if you're not yet 13.

 

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If we indeed have an age requirement, we could probably remove it so little kids who are competent enough to make an account can do so.

(Although whether or not they're mature enough to hold a proper conversation + deal with any obscene language/content/drama that comes around at times is another matter. )

 

Out of fairness, I don't believe I've even heard this mentioned during my time here on YCM.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Out of fairness, I don't believe I've even heard this mentioned during my time here on YCM.

This is the big reason I brought it up. Because it seems odd there's something written into YCM that people don't even realize is a thing.

...And again because I'm still unsure what it even means for sure.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Like I mentioned, privacy thing is likely just a default built into IP.Board's software.

I don't think YCMaker had anything to do with writing it.

 

MyBB YCM didn't appear to have anything of the sort, looking at the archives from early 2010 at latest.

[Maeriberii Haan]

I remember this being a part of some federal regulation or something somewhere on the site, though at this point it's probably just formalities more than anything.

[bury the year]

Also if it is a minimum age requirement, should it be removed entirely?

As IP.Board is based in the US, it has to be legally compliant with COPPA. This means that 13-year-olds can give personal information and join the forum if they have parental consent, which has to be verified by a third party. Since that's obviously a major pain in the ass, most forums just ask that 13-and-under people don't sign up.

 

So yeah, you are breaking the law if you're under 13 and on YCM forums, but it's not in a way that anyone really cares about.

 

This also means the age limitation can't be removed.

[Just Crouton]

The age rule can't really be enforced anyways since new members can lie about their age, and the mods & admins can't prove they lied unless the member posts their real age.

 

The magic of anonymity.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

As IP.Board is based in the US, it has to be legally compliant with COPPA. This means that 13-year-olds can give personal information and join the forum if they have parental consent, which has to be verified by a third party. Since that's obviously a major pain in the ass, most forums just ask that 13-and-under people don't sign up.

 

So yeah, you are breaking the law if you're under 13 and on YCM forums, but it's not in a way that anyone really cares about.

 

This also means the age limitation can't be removed

Thanks for the information. ^^

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

The age rule can't really be enforced anyways since new members can lie about their age, and the mods & admins can't prove they lied unless the member posts their real age.

 

The magic of anonymity.

Exactly, we can't force people to post their actual age (and even if it were required that you put one in, people can lie about it). 

For all we know, someone who says they're 14 or something could easily be a 10-11 year old.

 

If we were able to keep accurate tabs on members + enforce the 13 and under rule, several people here would be ineligible for an account at the time they registered, and likely for some time afterwards (given the COPPA standards here). 

 

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In short, like Rinne mentioned, you technically can't be here if you're under 13 due to regulations, but staff can't do much if a member is indeed under the age of 13 + decides to join.

We have to abide by federal regulations, yes, but having a parent/guardian or someone else confirm the age of said pre-teen/child so they can come around is a pain.

 

I know that I mentioned seeing two confirmed ones in CC (and other areas) within the past couple months.

There are likely more underage users, but they're either indeed using false ages to seem older than they are, or they don't mention anything in that field.

[Peridank]

>Secretly 3 years old

 

OT: I think we are good on this spectrum anyway... members seem mature enough to handle this forum (which is well PG to PG-13) cuz majority is mature, grown adults. I don't think I've seen an 8 year old on this site. Tbh... ygo as a whole is more interesting to older audiences as of today. We should have no problems whether this rule is enforced in some way or not. (Exaggeration of course... problems will occur... but nothing mods and staff can't handle)

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

>Secretly 3 years old

 

OT: I think we are good on this spectrum anyway... members seem mature enough to handle this forum (which is well PG to PG-13) cuz majority is mature, grown adults. I don't think I've seen an 8 year old on this site. Tbh... ygo as a whole is more interesting to older audiences as of today. We should have no problems whether this rule is enforced in some way or not. (Exaggeration of course... problems will occur... but nothing mods and staff can't handle)

Youngest I've seen around here over the time I've been actively around is probably 10-11, so yeah intermediate school age at the minimum.

(Kids younger than that likely have an idea of what the internet is, but parents should be still be supervising.)

 

There are smaller kids who still play the game + show interest, but a few of them don't understand the concept of metagames and a bunch of other things used in competitive. Most of the players I know around my area are college-aged and pretty much at the dealer I buy stuff from nowadays from observation [around my age, or even older], but I digress.

 

There haven't been any problems thus far with younger users; save for maybe problems with them posting cards properly, but that's manageable enough.

Again, there are probably other underage users whom we've probably not seen yet, but they probably stick to the cardmaker (which is fine).

[Forest Fire]

I mean I started out on my first account when I was 12-13 and look at me. Back then I was rude and insensitive because I could be, now it's because that's who I am. Le Hole of De Ass. 

[Simping For Hina]

We have Garland who is 12, so there's that.

[Peridank]

Garland is twelve? Never woulda guessed

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

We don't know how old he really is (even if he does act up at times).

Profile says 15, so if that is true, he should be fine.

[Wahrheit]

Is YCM COPPA-compliant?

[Simping For Hina]

Wahrheit is 12, just saying

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

Is YCM COPPA-compliant?

Technically, we should be compliant with that regulation, but most members are either 13+ (and are perfectly fine to stay here) or they don't reveal ages.

So yes, for all we know, one could be underage + still use the forums. There have been some instances of members who were under 13 in the past; they're of appropriate age at this time, however.

 

In a way, I suppose we aren't complying with COPPA, but there haven't been a lot of underage users to be honest, at least to our knowledge.

That, and we can't force them to confirm they have parental permission to be coming here if they are 12 and under.

 

As mentioned a few times by now, it is a pain in the neck to validate any underage users who wish to come in (and/or get confirmation from parents and legal guardians), so we likely don't enforce this policy.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

If obtaining parental consent is as inconvenient as you say, the solution isn't to ignore the law. The solution would be disallow users under the age of 13 completely. Of course, that can't realistically be enforced, but a policy of "allow them anyway" is quite literally illegal.

 

At least pretend to be following regulations.

[Wahrheit]

It is important to comply with COPPA, and given YCM's audience, if it is not doing so, it could face serious litigation. I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice, but it would not be unwise to implement such a policy.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

It is important to comply with COPPA, and given YCM's audience, if it is not doing so, it could face serious litigation. I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice, but it would not be unwise to implement such a policy.

Literally this. It may not be possible to enforce, but the stance can't just be "oh well". It needs to be clear that users under the age of 13 are not allowed, so as to prevent ambiguity. If a user is too young, they are breaking the rules as well as the law, and should not be a member of the site. If they do not reveal themselves to be underneath the age requirement, then sure, there is no way we would know. Pornography site don't get in trouble 15 year olds watching their stuff, but they sure as hell need the notices saying it is 18 or older.

[ihop]

Yeah smogon bans people who admit to being under 13 until they're 13. If YCM really is COPPA compliant we should too.

[rscrash]

It is important to comply with COPPA, and given YCM's audience, if it is not doing so, it could face serious litigation. I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice, but it would not be unwise to implement such a policy.

 

I am a lawyer and I can give legal advice, but in lieu of that I will simply suggest that this whole place is, and has been for the past seven or eight years, a huge lawsuit-scented ticking timebomb.

[Peridank]

I am a lawyer and I can give legal advice, but in lieu of that I will simply suggest that this whole place is, and has been for the past seven or eight years, a huge lawsuit-scented ticking timebomb.

where is the advice part? If that really is the state of this website then how can we rationally fix it? Most likely no one that is gonna confess... well idk for sure... but still...

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

If a member knowingly posts their actual age on the forum (either in a thread/post, status or even their own profile) , and is indeed under the age of 13, we'll be forced to suspend/ban their accounts until they reach the appropriate age.

 

As of right now, there are only a small handful of underage users; only one of whom is relatively active, if memory serves me correctly. 

There are likely more, but again, unless they post their actual ages somewhere, we can't do much.

 

While yes, it won't halt the flow of underage users to YCM (because again, some of them may opt to lie about their age or just won't put one at all), that's about all we can really do about the situation right now.

 

The regulation itself is flawed because 12 and under users can lie about age or opt not to provide one, and we can't prove that they are lying about it, but while YCM is under IP.Boards, we have to obey it.