An idea for an Archetype-based Tournament

[EndUser]

I was thinking we should give a chance to Archetypes to show their true potential. How you may ask? From their own capabilities.
In other words, a tournament based on Archetypes themselves. The general support will be little to medium, keeping the Deck's originality high.
(Needless to say, if anything seems strange/very non-fitting/complex, raise your question/suggestion.)
I'll try to cite the details of the (intended) tournament:

[spoiler=Rule 1](1) Only Archetype Decks can be used. Decks like Zombies, EARTH and such are not allowed, because they are "generic" in a way, meaning that they may include too many different cards although being "archetypal".

[spoiler=Rule 2]
(2) No more than 2 copies of each card (including the generic cards). The reason is to try to use as many cards as possible and not rely on 3-4-5 cards only. As a result, picking an Archetype which contains as many cards as possible is vital and, since more and more are getting support, this ain't gonna be tough. Only exception, if 3 copies of a card are absolutely necessary for specific combos/utilites. Examples:
i) Since Shaddolls are only consisted of DARK monsters, Core and/or Nephe Shaddoll Fusion can be at 3.
ii) If a player uses a Hieratic Deck, they are allowed to use 3 HSotSDO and HSoDK because they lack other Normal Monsters.
iii) You can't use 3 GEPD in a Galaxy/Photon Deck, because they already have many Level 8 choices or effects that implement this.
Additionally, another exception is given for the Archetypes whose current cards cannot fill the minimum required cards' number (which is 30, since 10 are the max. generic cards that can be).

[spoiler=Rule 3]
(3) Semi-Limited Cards are allowed to be used ONLY if they are Archetype-based, otherwise 1 copy of the card is just enough.
(We are following the TCG banlist)

[spoiler=Rule 4]
(4) The number of generic/semi-generic cards will be:
i) no more than 10 in the MD.
ii)no more than 4 in the ED.
(By semi-generic, I mean the cards who have a basic relation to the archetype.)
The kind of allowed cards are those which:
i) have some basic relation to the archetype (type, atrribute, Level etc.).
ii) can be part of the Deck's strategy and possibly make them more flexible/playable (e.g. Book of Moon for Blackwings, Dealings in a Fabled Deck, etc.).
iii) Only 4 totally generic cards in the MD (CotH, BTH, Dark Hole etc.)
iv) Cards from an Archetype are considered generic for another. E.g. Frogs can be used in a Monarchs Decks but do not count as archetypal.

[spoiler=Rule 5]
(5) If two or more cards have the same basic function, those who relate more to the Deck have priority. Examples:
i) If you intend to use Compulsory in a Blackwing Deck, you should add at least 1 Black Return. Moreover, Zerofyne, Alector and other cards (monsters or not) have priority over Veiler/Fiendish etc. Same goes for other cards like Icarus Attack and more.
ii) Don't include non-DARK monster in a Shaddoll Deck just because they're different Attributes (unless, like previously said, they serve a specific purpose for the Deck). Shaddolls already have the cards to do the trick.
(Think of Mathematician: Its priority is lower from Squamata's, but is higher from Foolish Burial's and sure is preferred over Peropero Cerperus.
iii) Harpies have Triangle Extacy Spark to negate Trap Cards' effects and prevent their activation. Trap Stun and the stuff come second.

[spoiler=Things to keep in mind]
(i) Even if some cards are very useful or necessary for a Deck to work efficiently (examples given here: http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/338237-an-idea-for-an-archetype-based-tournament/?do=findComment&comment=6677521), they still count as generic, unless if they are included to the {?} spoiler below.
(ii) There are Archetypes that are a mixture of sub-archetypes, but they are practically the same one. Example, the Aesir/Nordic Deck.
(iii) Whether or not should the players reserve a Deck is still unknown.
(iv)The rules (1) and (2) are the bare bones of the tournament. Unless there are some potentially important points not to be ignored, they won't be changed AT ALL. These points might be about what can be categorized as an Archetype or which cards are needed at 3 for specific reasons.

 
[spoiler=?  Cards that are, or can be considered, part of archetypes]
- All (or most) of the cards that have "Monarchs" or "Vassal" in their name, except Gravekeeper's Vassal, for Monarchs.
- Silver's Cry and Azure-Eyes Silver Dragon for the Blue-Eyes archetype.
- Onslaught/Circle of the Fire Kings for the Fire Kings.
- Dark World Dealings/Grimoire/Lightning for the Dark World archetype.
- Polymerization can count as archetypal for Decks that need it but don't have any card to utilize its effect. Two example Decks are Ojama and Roid (since Vehicroids are not the only Fusion monsters). Two anti-example Decks are Gem-Knight and Fluffal/Edge Imp. (Be careful with the priorities, Dragon's Mirror and Overload Fusion are only two of the cards to be aware of.)

 
[spoiler=Example Deck]
This is an example of a Blackwing Deck that is acceptable:
http://i.imgur.com/s2WZkgp.png

This, on the other hand, is not acceptable:
http://i.imgur.com/mlofNbD.png

The reasons:
i) Harpist is chosen over Pinaka.
ii) Compulsory is chosen over Black Return.
iii) There are 5 totally generic cards in the MD.
iv) There are 5 semi-generic cards in the ED.
v) Black-Winged Strafe is missing. It may need a good setup and is weaker even from other synergetic cards BUT, since it's archetypal and there are many cards that can make it playable, its priority counts.

[spoiler=Decks that can be used]
[spoiler=  These Decks can be filled with the min. required archetypal cards, so they are the most viable choices (alphabetically ordered): ]
(Since some of the Decks are way more powerful or a lot better supported than the others, they can be omitted as choices, or have a couple of their so-powerful cards limited. It's up to you, though, if you want it this way or not.)
Aesir/Nordic
Alien

Ally of Justice
Amazoness

Ancient Gear
Archfiend (all of them)
Battlin' Boxer
Black Luster Soldier
Blackwing
Bujin
Burning Abyss
Chronomally
Cloudian
Constellar
Crystal Beast
Cyber Dragon
D/D - D/D/D
Dark World
Destiny Hero
Dododo/Gagaga/Gogogo (Gagaga can also be separate and playable)
Dragunity
Elemental Hero (pure, with Neos only)
Evilswarm
Evolsaur/Evoltile
Fabled
Fire Fist
Flamvell
Fluffal/Edge Imp
Frog
Galaxy/Photon
Gem-Knight
Genex
Ghostrick
Gimmick Puppet
Gishki
Gladiator Beast
Gravekeeper's
Gusto
Harpies
Heraldic Beast
Heroic Challenger/-Champion
Hieratic
Ice Barrier
Igknight

Infernity
Infernoid
Inzektor
Jurrac
Karakuri
Koa'ki Meiru
Laval
Lightsworn
Machina
Madolche
Majespecter
Mecha Phantom Beast
Meklord
Melodious
Mermail
Mist Valley
Monarchs
Morphtronic
Naturia
Nekroz
Ninja/Ninjitsu Art
Noble Knights
Performapal
Spellbook/Prophecy
Qliphort
Raidraptor
Red-Eyes
Roid
Scrap
Shaddoll
Six Samurai
Steelswarm (Lswarm)
Stellarknight
Superheavy Samurai
Sylvan
Synchron
The Sanctuary in the Sky (The Agents and others)
Toons
U.A.
Utopia 
Vampire (all the several monsters)
Volcanic/Blaze Accelerator
Vylon
Watt
Wind-Up
Worm
X-Saber
Yang Zing
Yosenju

 
[spoiler=  These Decks are allowed to have some (or all) of their cards at 3 in order to be within limits:]
Artifact
Batteryman
Dark Magician/-Girl/Timaeus
Fortune Lady
Geargia
Ojama
Reptiliane
T.G.

Zefra

 

 
[spoiler=  These are Decks who are close to the limit so, if there is interest in them, 1-2 generic cards (that are absolutery fitting for the Deck) can be counted as archetypal and ONLY for this case.]

Atlantean
Blue-Eyes (Silver's Cry may be counted as default)
Fire Kings
Hazy Flame
Performage

 
(I may have forgotten to write some names that archetypes use [e.g. Heroic Challenger/-Champion], or Decks that I thought cannot compete but there are cards that actually are part of them.
Also, if there is a Deck that meets the requirements, or that is too close to the limit to not be given a chance, but is missing the list, please inform me.)

Keep in mind that this tournament is NOT only about power and competitive plays. It's also about entertainment, creativity and relaxation from all we go through long time now. Also, any examples given are totally chosen by luck.
Of course, this is just an idea and not something sure. Wouldn't be implemented this period anyway, due to the other tournament.
Again, if something is unclear/needs to be added/seems too less/much, tell so.

Additionally, if anyone is willing to potentially host it, leave your interest in the thread.
The host basically needs to keep track of the wins and the contestants' decks. The scoring and the prices are 2 things I need to leard about. In addition, should I be more active than usual to maintain the tourney?... This are my basic concerns for now, maybe more will appear later. If someone else finally volunteers to do it, I'll make sure to give them some points, rep or whatever is possible.

 

[spoiler=Participants]

[spoiler=Interested people:]

EndUser (me)

Saiku
Tinkerer
Brock The Rock Progenitor/Progenitor
Mr Spaz
Mugino Shizuri/Wildflame
Aquatic Ether Zerpant

 

[spoiler=Not sure if interested:]

I am Dog King/Dog King
U.K. Duston Slugger

 

 

 

 

-----------------------------------

What do you think?

[King K. Azo]

I like this.

I like this a lot.

We should do this.

WHY ARE WE NOT DOING THIS?!

[EndUser]

  Because reasons, I guess?  :/

 

Let's see what others have to say. I think it's good for a change to do something different. However, I haven't examined the whole idea thoroughly so there may be some gaps or significant flaws to it.

[Delibirb]

Im cool with this. Could be fun, at least in the deck construction stage.

 

[spoiler=Would this work? Did I do it right?]

 

[Dog King]

would be best to do this after ycmcs

[Tinkerer]

I want in on this! Can I reserve an archetype, or is it not specific per person?

[EndUser]

Im cool with this. Could be fun, at least in the deck construction stage.

 

[spoiler=Would this work? Did I do it right?]

 

   It is within every limit, so yes. ;)

   The ony thing I'm sceptical about (but not really against it) is the 2 Lonefires and Rose Paladins. See, the Deck's main purpose is to excavate and mill and, depending on the cards, activate several effects. It implements Special Summoning as well, though not as greatly as Lonefire does, but with the appropriate setup and cards that help the Deck's strategy (milling and topping cards) SS'ing can be very successful.

   Objectively speaking, I'd say Lonefires/Paladins have to be removed (or at least be limited) but my point may not be too reasonable to do so.

 

This is one of the "unclear things" that needs to be thought of carefully, so...

 

would be best to do this after ycmcs

  Of course. I did say this to the OP.  ;)

 

I want in on this! Can I reserve an archetype, or is it not specific per person?

  Not sure yet... Reserving an archetype means not letting others use the same archetype, which they may really want to use under the tourney's terms. However, not reserving it can lead to using, let's say, 1 deck per 2 participants.

[Progenitor]

Noting interest,

 

However on the topic of that deck, you really need to let Sylvans have Lonefire in some form or fashion. Sylvans have absolutely 0 Non-Generic ways to get out their Hermitrees except by tribute summoning, and I PROMISE you that will never happen. Lonefire and Rose Lover are honestly the Keystones of the deck. Thales them away and it's almost entirely unplayable.

[Goose]

The rules seem arbitrary.  What's the point to the second rule?  

[EndUser]

Noting interest,

 

However on the topic of that deck, you really need to let Sylvans have Lonefire in some form or fashion. Sylvans have absolutely 0 Non-Generic ways to get out their Hermitrees except by tribute summoning, and I PROMISE you that will never happen. Lonefire and Rose Lover are honestly the Keystones of the deck. Thales them away and it's almost entirely unplayable.

  I've updated the OP so that this can be discussed, thanks for the info.

 

The rules seem arbitrary.  What's the point to the second rule?  

  I'll try to explain it with some examples:

 (i) Blackwing. Instead of using 3 Shura/Bora/Gale/Kalut, 2-3 Blizzards/Kris/Pinaki and 1 Zephyros, you could use 2 Shura/Bora/Kris/Gale/Kalut/Blizzard/Pinaki and some other BW monsters (i.e. variety, originality and dedication to what the Deck can do). Besides, If you intended to use only the first-mentioned monsters, you'd have to flll the rest of the deck with so many unrelated cards (since most of the S/T cards are little to no useful). Depends on what you want to make of course, but still...

 (ii) Bujin. Players usually use only Yamato/Mikazuchi/Crane/Quilin/Centipede/Hare and Sinyou, Bujincarnation and Bujin Regalia. There is a plethora of cards to use with so many different effects so why rely only on these specific cards?

 (iii) Lightsworn. Should I really say something about it?

 (iv) Heraldic. They Special Summon a lot, yet most players usually try to accomplish this even more (not to say 6 are the most usual monsters and 2 their Spells to see in the decks). Just no. Use some different tactics and cards, widen your options, be open to solutions and play smart. ;)

 

  Remember, this is not a tournament to show our muscles, but to duel with what we've got. Its restrictions make it unique, else it'll end up like any other regural tournament with minor changes to the theme.

  However, I did say that if more are the people who are against it than in favor of it, it just won't happen.

[Progenitor]

Ooo this might be the excuse I've been looking for to finally update my Bujintei Turbo deck. Screw the control builds we can Xyz change for no reason now boyz.

 

Not confirming entry until the details and timespan is finalized, but I'll play along until that happens.

 

Additionally, it may be worth taking note of Keystone cards in some archetypes, and whether or not to allow them, and if so, how to do so. For example, Sylvans are, pretty much literally, unplayable without Lonefire, and to a lesser extent Rose Lover. Because of this, maybe Sylvan player(s) are allowed to play Lonefire/Rose Lover as a regular option at 2, or maybe you can play 1 of each, or maybe just 1 total, etc.

 

Very few archetypes are like this, but another ones that come to mind are Deskbots (need either Machine Dupe or Inferno Reckless Summon.)

[EndUser]

Ooo this might be the excuse I've been looking for to finally update my Bujintei Turbo deck. Screw the control builds we can Xyz change for no reason now boyz.

  ...And all this time you restrained yourself from using a pure Bujin Deck!  :D

What do you mean by Xyz change? That Continuous Spell Card? It's only for "Utopia" monsters, but they are LIGHT, this card is just counted as total generic for the deck.  ;)

 

 

Additionally, it may be worth taking note of Keystone cards in some archetypes, and whether or not to allow them, and if so, how to do so. 

 

Very few archetypes are like this, but another ones that come to mind are Deskbots (need either Machine Dupe or Inferno Reckless Summon.)

  I'll update the OP accordingly.

 

 

Not confirming entry until the details and timespan is finalized, but I'll play along until that happens.

Most possibly (if it ever happens), it'll occur after the current YCMCS.

[Tinkerer]

...And all this time you restrained yourself from using a pure Bujin Deck! :D

What do you mean by Xyz change? That Continuous Spell Card? It's only for "Utopia" monsters, but they are LIGHT, this card is just counted as total generic for the deck. ;)

 

I think he means that announced pendulum monster.

 

As for me, I'm going Superheavy Samurai!

[EndUser]

  Bumping.

 

It's too early to necro the topic, so yeah...

The OP is updated from time to time (with minimal changes, but still), so I advice those who've already read it do it again.

[EndUser]

  ...It's already been 2 weeks, wow time goes by too fast!

 

Bumping. In addition, a bit of reminder of the updates I make from time to time when neseccary.

 

 

 

(Interest? Opinions? Too early to have a say perhaps?)

[ÆƵ–]

I am taking the interest in this! How would Atlanteans be handled in this context? Since almost all of them are semi-generic, would it be possible?

[Wildflame]

It's a tournament, so noting interest.

[Mr Dr Professor Spaz]

I actually like this concept. Now to spend a while building a shitload of decks specifically to meet these criteria. (Already did Gladiator Beasts and Chronomaly, now to see what else I can make)

 

Also, your list of Decks that can work with the minimum required archetypal cards can include Performapals (I checked)

[EndUser]

I am taking the interest in this! How would Atlanteans be handled in this context? Since almost all of them are semi-generic, would it be possible?

  Hmm, I forgot to include them to the list of Decks which are close to the min. required cards (already updated the OP).

 

  I'm not sure how would they be handled... Atlanteans are very fitting for the Deck. Also, they add strength to it (since Mermails are based almost solely on Special Summoning) and, being semi-generic, you can add however many of them you want (within the limits, of course). All good so far. What I want to avoid is to mix the Archetypes because by this logic, there may be other Decks like Mermails that would like more support, messing the overall theme.

  I thought to increase the generic cards' support by, let's say, 2 cards (i.e. at least 8 semi-generic and/or 4 total generic cards at most) for cases like this one, and this is the best I can think so at the moment.

 

  If you give me something good as to what can be done for cases like this or at least a good reason to actually DO something about it, then I'm totally fine to follow! ;)

 

It's a tournament, so noting interest.

  Nice to hear it.

At first I read it as "nothing interest", then scrolled and show Progenitor said the same thing, then re-read your post and I was like "Man, do I really want noone to join?". Lol :/

 

1) I actually like this concept. Now to spend a while building a shitload of decks specifically to meet these criteria. (Already did Gladiator Beasts and Chronomaly, now to see what else I can make)

 

2) Also, your list of Decks that can work with the minimum required archetypal cards can include Performapals (I checked)

1) Take it easy - there's plenty of time, and plenty of Decks to pick from. Trust me, it's easier than creating a competitive deck for a competitive tournament. ;)

 

2) Updated the OP accordingly, thanks.

[Progenitor]

I think Zerpent was asking how Atlanteans could be handled as their own Archetype.  I certainly play them as such (In Soviet Russia, Mermails are the techs).  Since all of them (except Neptabyss) support Sea Serpents in general instead of "Atlanteans", could they even be considered their own standalone archetype?

[EndUser]

I think Zerpent was asking how Atlanteans could be handled as their own Archetype. Since all of them (except Neptabyss) support Sea Serpents in general instead of "Atlanteans", could they even be considered their own standalone archetype?

As Sea Serpents, no because it would break the 1st Rule, where I explain why so.

As an Archetype, it could but I don't think they can qualify. Even thought they are close to the limit (so maybe an exception could be given): With a non-desired Normal Monster and Atlantean Dragoons been semi-Limited, it would be pointless.

 

I certainly play them as such (In Soviet Russia, Mermails are the techs).

  An interesting thing to know. I assume you include lots of other cards to fill the deck and further its power and consistency?

This exact filling is what I'm trying to keep under control.

[Mr Dr Professor Spaz]

Found a few more that fit the minimum archetypal cards requirement:

Ally of Justice

Ancient Gear

Infernity

 

As for the second list:

Zefra

Reptilianne

Geargia

 

Vampire is debatable

[Mr Dr Professor Spaz]

1) Take it easy - there's plenty of time, and plenty of Decks to pick from. Trust me, it's easier than creating a competitive deck for a competitive tournament. ;)

Also, I just like to do this sort of thing. One time I was in a themed tournament where all cards in the deck had to begin with the same letter, but the deck could not be centered around an archetype. I have made decks for every letter except Q, X, and Y.

 

Meant to have that as one post. If a mod or someone could merge the 2 posts, that would be great.

[EndUser]

  Added the 1st three. I've already added Reptiliane and Geargia!    :/

As for Zefra, I somehow can't imagine it be standing as an Achetype by itself BUT it's still an option, so... added as well.   ;)

 

  Vampires are debatable indeed. Just like with Archfiends, I've added them to the 1st list of Decks, but if some of the monsters do not count as part of the Archetype then I'll moveit accordingly.

 

 

  Thanks for the help.   :)

[EndUser]

  (@The mods: My apologies if the thread could no longer be bumped)

 

  I understand that most of you'll be quite busy these months. I may be as well. However, with patience and time tolerance (for the duels etc.), the tournament can be a success. 

  If you think it's not going to work, or you simply can't join, please leave a comment so that I don't bother keeping the topic on.

 

(For the case it won't be cancelled, expect an update at the OP. I won't change stuff but rather add a bit more tolerance to the limitations.)