ihop Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 No it isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 No it isn'tI was exagerating, but like... I've never really seen anyone use it. I mean, I've heard people discuss the idea of Zefra-Nekroz as a deck, but I've never seen them actually build/play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 The key thing is that it's not a spell card - people side it or even main it just to out Spell Canceller and Secret Village because the deck can't do so otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I was exagerating, but like... I've never really seen anyone use it. I mean, I've heard people discuss the idea of Zefra-Nekroz as a deck, but I've never seen them actually build/play it.Saw play in back when Shock Master call spells was big...cards is honestly pretty damn good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 The key thing is that it's not a spell card - people side it or even main it just to out Spell Canceller and Secret Village because the deck can't do so otherwise.Not sure why Village would make them worry, when they have Spellcasters. Though, I guess playing the odds with a deck like Nekroz would be too counterprodutive/pointless to waste your searchers on Spellcasters/etc, when merely playing the Pend would solve all of yuor problems. Either way, I have that noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Not sure why Village would make them worry, when they have Spellcasters. Though, I guess playing the odds with a deck like Nekroz would be too counterprodutive/pointless to waste your searchers on Spellcasters/etc, when merely playing the Pend would solve all of yuor problems.Either way, I have that noted. Generally the spellcasters that don't need to be ritual summoned suck more than Zefrasaber, although a lot of people are using Dance Princess as an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 The card should be at no number below three. Special summoning is a cancer to this game and cards like Torrential cannot hold it in.You really do not understand the fundamental problems of these kinds of cards, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 You really do not understand the fundamental problems of these kinds of cards, do you?Vanity is different. You can't normally advance your gamestate after you play it without losing it. My desire to have Oppression back is questionable, but Vanity is one of the fairest floodgate cards there are Special summoning is the cancer that ruined this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Special summoning is the cancer that ruined this game.Meanwhile you're the cancer that's ruining this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Vanity is different. You can't normally advance your gamestate after you play it without losing it. My desire to have Oppression back is questionable, but Vanity is one of the fairest floodgate cards there are Quite the opposite. You're actually able to advance your gamestate hugely BEFORE using it, whereas with something like Lose 1 Turn you can't substantially advance your gamestate before you flip it in a lot of cases. Also it's less likely to kill you if you lose your advantage because if your field dies Vanity's dies too, whereas if the opponent can out the monsters backing up oppression you're now in trouble if you can't put up a board under oppression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neutrality Man Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 NO, funk you all. Vanity's Emptiness is cancer, ban it now. Try these options that actually let people funking play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 People aren't going to replace it with shite you know edit: Holy sheet, the new text on Summon Limit actually explains how so many cards such as Duality work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 NO, funk you all. Vanity's Emptiness is cancer, ban it now. Try these options that actually let people funking play. Vanity's needed in this game because the moment it stops existing altogether, lots of decks will go simply rampant. Same for Skill Drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 What? A single limited card that's relatively easy to out isn't going to force people to play different decks. That's the whole point, it's not reliable enough to make changing your deck worthwhile so that when you do have it it's super easy to win. Vanity's is absolutely not needed, neither is Skill Drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 What? A single limited card that's relatively easy to out isn't going to force people to play different decks. That's the whole point, it's not reliable enough to make changing your deck worthwhile so that when you do have it it's super easy to win. Vanity's is absolutely not needed, neither is Skill Drain.But the sole threat of it existing and possibly being in the backrow is there so long it's not banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 But the sole threat of it existing and possibly being in the backrow is there so long it's not banned. And? People aren't changing their playstyle at all to play round it, its existence is having no significant impact on the game in general. The only impact it has is that people are agreeing to keep it out of their deck games 2 and 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Quite the opposite. You're actually able to advance your gamestate hugely BEFORE using it, whereas with something like Lose 1 Turn you can't substantially advance your gamestate before you flip it in a lot of cases. Also it's less likely to kill you if you lose your advantage because if your field dies Vanity's dies too, whereas if the opponent can out the monsters backing up oppression you're now in trouble if you can't put up a board under oppression.I mean lose one turn is the figurehead of a balanced Floodgate. And while Vanity allows for the Derpy plays of vomit SS on board then flip, unlike a truly unhealthy floodgate like Skill Drain or Macro Cosmos, it lacks the game movement after activation. It's a relatively less evil card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neutrality Man Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Vanity's needed in this game because the moment it stops existing altogether, lots of decks will go simply rampant. Same for Skill Drain. Maybe I WANT them to go rampant because seeing the same three Decks fill out an entire 128-player bracket every format is getting funking boring. This format's flavor is is:Nekroz Qli Ritual Beast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Quite the opposite. You're actually able to advance your gamestate hugely BEFORE using it, whereas with something like Lose 1 Turn you can't substantially advance your gamestate before you flip it in a lot of cases. Also it's less likely to kill you if you lose your advantage because if your field dies Vanity's dies too, whereas if the opponent can out the monsters backing up oppression you're now in trouble if you can't put up a board under oppression.I mean lose one turn is the figurehead of a balanced Floodgate. And while Vanity allows for the Derpy plays of vomit SS on board then flip, unlike a truly unhealthy floodgate like Skill Drain or Macro Cosmos, it lacks the game movement after activation. It's a relatively less evil card Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Maybe I WANT them to go rampant because seeing the same three Decks fill out an entire 128-player bracket every format is getting funking boring. This format's flavor is is:Nekroz Qli Ritual Beast Maybe I WANT them to go rampant because seeing the same three Decks fill out an entire 128-player bracket every format is getting funking boring. This format's flavor is is:Nekroz Qli Ritual Beast Next format's flavor is gonna be deck X, Y and Z. Last format's flavor were decks A, B, and C. Your point? Meta will always exist. also ritual beasts what the funk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Wait, did you really say certain decks would go "rampant" if Vanity's were banned? Nekroz are the definition of a deck that loses to Vanity's and yet they're still doing pretty well for themselves, and it's not as if decks like Qli don't still have 5 "you can't play Yugioh" cards so they're hardly going to be so much worse off without a Vanity's, Some builds didn't even PLAY Vanity's. You can discuss ideal game states and game health until you're blue in the face, the only way to understand how banworthy Vanity's is is to look at the Nekroz mirror, and I think that alone is reason enough to ban Vanity's. Sure, Nekroz may no longer be around in the future but there's always going to be a backrow-light deck that special summons a lot and whenever the next one comes around we'll have the same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Yeah, bad choice of words. I just meant that any deck that might play a tiny bit more conservatively currently because Vanity's MIGHT be there will just go "funk it" and vomit everything they have out because Vanity's is sure not be there. I'm not talking about an "ideal gamestate", just saying what I feel, and I feel like Vanity's being around is a pretty good safety valve. Like personally I'd see it at 3 again but that's probably a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 The way I see it is that it causes problems wherever it is on the list. At 3 it means floodgate decks have so many floodgates that you need to draw multiple outs to have even a chance, at 1 it causes problems as a one-off in special summoning decks, and at 2 it has problems from both ends. It's really a 3 or 0 card and I am definitely tending towards 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
玄魔の王 Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 But the sole threat of it existing and possibly being in the backrow is there so long it's not banned.That sort of implies that people will see that threat as insurmountable and not even try, which isn't true. Running Special Summon decks with Vanity's around is a calculated risk, and one you're either okay or not okay with, but saying the okay crowd doesn't exist is dumb. If nobody took calculated risks, nobody would play Yugioh at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted July 13, 2015 Report Share Posted July 13, 2015 Sure, Nekroz may no longer be around in the future but there's always going to be a backrow-light deck that special summons a lot and whenever the next one comes around we'll have the same problem. At the same time, shouldn't they, if it's such a problem, suck it up and start playing defensive cards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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