Vanity's Emptiness

[Blake]

 

The ARG banlist got rid of this (possibly due to expecting Great Horn of Heaven to be an early promo in 3 months), but after talking with Lily and us discussing it, our initial thought on this persisted.

 

This is a necessary evil @1. A card like this should exist limited, just not above that.

 

Unlike Oppression, while limited, this card is easy to deal with. It's a pseudo-Solemn Warning most days, but also serves to put a good amount of fear into the game.

 

[Expelsword]

More like Banity's Emptiness, am I right?

 

So funny when people screw themselves with this card.

[Synchronized]

There's no reason for it to be at 0.  1 is the perfect number.

 

At three, it was far too much.  I've had the discussion with some people about it possibly going to 2, and even that I think is something I might be on board with, but banning it is too much--it existing in the game at least creates a mentality that you have to watch out for it, and it's not THAT difficult to get around if you play smart.

 

I think it should remain Limited, but banning it is way too much.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

The card should be at no number below three. Special summoning is a cancer to this game and cards like Torrential cannot hold it in. 

 

The fact that Yosenju can abuse it is the fault of Yosenju and they need to be hit.

 

Hit the cancergates like Skilldrain and Mistake and leave this card alone. It was really a step back in progress when they hit it

[Slinky]

The card should be at no number below three. Special summoning is a cancer to this game and cards like Torrential cannot hold it in. 

 

The fact that Yosenju can abuse it is the fault of Yosenju and they need to be hit.

 

Hit the cancergates like Skilldrain and Mistake and leave this card alone. It was really a step back in progress when they hit it

 

 

Please stop using asslogic.

Yosenju don't need to be hit in any way as of this time (other than a maybe 3-->2 Tenki) and probably not anytime soon. 

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

Please stop using asslogic.

Yosenju don't need to be hit in any way as of this time (other than a maybe 3-->2 Tenki) and probably not anytime soon.

 

Stop being an ass then. There's a reason why Goat format was so skillful. Maybe cause it was a time when Special summoning was rare and in between? Ehh? Not the vomit hand to board mess we have now!

[Synchronized]

The card should be at no number below three. Special summoning is a cancer to this game and cards like Torrential cannot hold it in. 

 

The fact that Yosenju can abuse it is the fault of Yosenju and they need to be hit.

 

Hit the cancergates like Skilldrain and Mistake and leave this card alone. It was really a step back in progress when they hit it

 

I was on board with you until you said Yosenju deserve a hit.  I really don't think that's true at all (except for the aforementioned Tenki limitation that should happen for a number of reasons), but every Deck can utilize Vanity's to an extent.

 

Mistake and Skill Drain should both be at 1 (though I lean towards Skill Drain being @ 0, if I'm honest). 

 

Vanity's is okay at 1 but I would much prefer it at 2-3, personally.

[Expelsword]

The card should be at no number below three. Special summoning is a cancer to this game and cards like Torrential cannot hold it in. 

The fact that Yosenju can abuse it is the fault of Yosenju and they need to be hit.

Hit the cancergates like Skilldrain and Mistake and leave this card alone. It was really a step back in progress when they hit it

 

You're bad at this.

[Miror B]

There's a reason why Goat format was so skillful.

This isn't about skill though, it's about balance.

[Queen of the Abyss]

I'm not really sure I'm on board with this card being legal. I have considered it to be very Pro Meta because a lot of meta decks outside of Nekroz have their own outs to it or can play around it. I feel like it is less prominent though now that we are slowly exiting the Tellar-Shaddoll-BA-Qli cycle, so maybe this card will be fine. At 1, however, I don't notice it really, but I still feel frightened by it, though it may help the last format I played in til recently was TeleDAD

[Blake]

Honestly, YGO is at a very high level of fun, compared to a lot of the past.

 

It's not the most structurally sound game, but Konami finally said "funk it, let's be as over the top as possible, considering they'll buy any pile of sheet that wins." And that gave us Pendulums.

 

With the exceptions of Qli and Igknight, Pendulum is actually a very solid mechanic. Why? It makes you feel like you're in the anime, and it's really, really fun to play because of that. Qli and Igknight show the worst of the mechanic, while Magicians, despite the high power they have, exhibit some of the best. And you know what deck that Magicians basically are? Pendulum Dragon Rulers. That's what they play like.

 

Most Pendulum decks feel like reimaginings, honestly.

 

D/D/D is like Fiend Fist with boss rush instead of backrow management.

 

Magicians are like D-Rulers. Down to veiler for syncing (6+1 = Arcanite/the 5 other good Level 7s, 7+1 = Ignister/Stardusts/Scarright soon), but it evolved with Fusion thrown in, as well.

 

P-Pal is its own thing, which shows off the mechanic in full.

 

Igknight has been compared to multiple decks, Infernity was one of which.

 

Qli is its own thing, but it shows the absolute worst of the mechanic off, which is honestly disgusting. But it was a warning and way to get the worst out as early as possible. And Igknights take up the second half of that yoke, and, hopefully, they will also bury a terrible part of the mechanic.

 

Cards like Mistake and L1T are "you can't play YGO", which doesn't add to the fun. Most of the cards do. There are things to remove, but honestly, YGO is more about over the top fun than anything now, which is fine by me.

 

Goats is more skilled, for sure, but NS to play is hardly fun. YGO was really boring in the day. "Let me break my own rules", while completely unbalanced, is fun for its insanity.

[Ryusei the Morning Star]

I was on board with you until you said Yosenju deserve a hit.  I really don't think that's true at all (except for the aforementioned Tenki limitation that should happen for a number of reasons), but every Deck can utilize Vanity's to an extent.

 

Mistake and Skill Drain should both be at 1 (though I lean towards Skill Drain being @ 0, if I'm honest). 

 

Vanity's is okay at 1 but I would much prefer it at 2-3, personally.

A tenki limit WOULD be a yosenju hit though.

 

As usual, black takes the cake. I'd much rather have a format like July OCG with a tier 0 star seraph shaddoll deck that grinded back and forth. Was triple IF with Star Seraphs and triple super poly degenerate. Maybe. Were the matches skillful? Damn right they were.

 

Vanity may dumb down the "fun" of the game. But I see no fun in being otked since my opponent drew diva + megalo + some other funk

[BlackBeartic]

All floodgates at 1.

 

Please.

 

Arg banned this huh? Pretty nice honestly. I don't honestly see how people can outright just say "they want this at 3". This has got to be one of the most cancerous cards in the game. I'm not going to seriously sit there waiting to draw an out while my opponent can do whatever they want (because you can turn this card off since konami fails at design). I'm not having fun if i can't play and that's what this card in particular and almost every other floodgate does.

 

Personally i want them all at 1 as said above. Mistake and Lose a turn included. It's all cancer, but i will admit that if they are at 1 at least we can defend against stupid decks like necloth and other otk BS decks so i'm down for them at 1.

If they were to get banned i honestly wouldn't give a damn.

[ihop]

But a lot of the time, it isn't easy to deal with. The ARG list banned it based off how good it is in the current metagame and in the current metagame it is absolutely phenomenal. You may have noticed Nekroz players siding Vanity's with the intention of not keeping it in, but just to convince the opponent not to put it in because it absolutely destroys the Nekroz mirror - games 2 and 3 nobody will want to be keeping in MSTs and that means there's literally 1 out and it's limited. If you can make 101 then Emptiness there is only one way for the opponent to out it which requires 2 unsearchable cards, one of which is limited (Eclipse+Raigeki). There's no use telling Nekroz players to "adapt to it" because adapting to it requires playing multiple sheet cards just to get rid of a single unsearchable card which isn't worth it, so people keeping in Vanity's and resolving it are almost guaranteed to win the game. It's no better than Oppression.

 

Sure, this might be specific to this format because there may never be a deck like Nekroz which has practically NO destruction outside of special summoning and where MST is generally so bad in the mirror match that you are putting yourself far, far, behind by keeping it in, but I still think it may happen again and the card is just too good. I don't believe in "necessary evils" and I think there's always a way for the game to work around the loss of such a card.

[CLG Klavier]

Honestly, YGO is at a very high level of fun, compared to a lot of the past.

 

It's not the most structurally sound game, but Konami finally said "funk it, let's be as over the top as possible, considering they'll buy any pile of sheet that wins." And that gave us Pendulums.

 

With the exceptions of Qli and Igknight, Pendulum is actually a very solid mechanic. Why? It makes you feel like you're in the anime, and it's really, really fun to play because of that. Qli and Igknight show the worst of the mechanic, while Magicians, despite the high power they have, exhibit some of the best. And you know what deck that Magicians basically are? Pendulum Dragon Rulers. That's what they play like.

 

Most Pendulum decks feel like reimaginings, honestly.

 

D/D/D is like Fiend Fist with boss rush instead of backrow management.

 

Magicians are like D-Rulers. Down to veiler for syncing (6+1 = Arcanite/the 5 other good Level 7s, 7+1 = Ignister/Stardusts/Scarright soon), but it evolved with Fusion thrown in, as well.

 

P-Pal is its own thing, which shows off the mechanic in full.

 

Igknight has been compared to multiple decks, Infernity was one of which.

 

Qli is its own thing, but it shows the absolute worst of the mechanic off, which is honestly disgusting. But it was a warning and way to get the worst out as early as possible. And Igknights take up the second half of that yoke, and, hopefully, they will also bury a terrible part of the mechanic.

 

Cards like Mistake and L1T are "you can't play YGO", which doesn't add to the fun. Most of the cards do. There are things to remove, but honestly, YGO is more about over the top fun than anything now, which is fine by me.

 

Goats is more skilled, for sure, but NS to play is hardly fun. YGO was really boring in the day. "Let me break my own rules", while completely unbalanced, is fun for its insanity.

Glad someone finally said this. "Balanced" YGO isn't nearly as fun as the one we have now.

[ihop]

Honestly I'd rather it were at 3 than 1 because at least it would be a significant enough threat to prepare for. It's only as autowin as it is now because it's a 1-off anomale to the rest of the Nekroz deck.

[TF2_The_Scout]

I can see why this card got limited, especially with Yosenju making it exploitable. Though, I would like to see Mistake also get limited. It at 3 pretty much ruins a lot of decks.

[Expelsword]

It's cards like this that make me add 2 MST to every deck.

[CLG Klavier]

Honestly I'd rather it were at 3 than 1 because at least it would be a significant enough threat to prepare for. It's only as autowin as it is now because it's a 1-off anomale to the rest of the Nekroz deck.

Same for Soul Charge IMO. If it's at 3, you can legitimately expect it and play around it. The way it is now, it's just a sacky "I win" every few games.

[Toffee.]

Everyone should just run 3x MST and 3x Galaxy Cyclone, cuz' we still can't sleep at night.

[TF2_The_Scout]

Everyone should just run 3x MST and 3x Galaxy Cyclone, cuz' we still can't sleep at night.

MST is OP.

[ihop]

Same for Soul Charge IMO. If it's at 3, you can legitimately expect it and play around it. The way it is now, it's just a sacky "I win" every few games.

 

You see, I somewhat agree with this but there's not a real comparison between Soul Charge and Vanity's here. Soul Charge is used in decks that already rely on special summoning, often from graveyard, and for that reason playing something like Solemn Warning against a deck using only 1 Soul Charge will always be worthwhile since you're always going to get use out of Solemn Warning. With Vanity's in backrow-less decks you're putting MST in knowing it's going to be useless unless they draw into the one Vanity's, so normally it's not worth it because it's probably more likely you lose the game to a badly-drawn MST than you lose the game to Vanity's. If Nekroz suddenly started playing Call of the Haunted and Fire Formation - Tenki, say, Vanity's would be far less of an issue because you'd always get value out of siding in MST regardless of whether they drew their single Vanity's or not.

 

Vanity's is a little bit less game-changing in decks like Qli and Yosenju because you're already playing natural outs to it and you don't make your deck worse in general by adding outs to Vanity's, it's just an extra floodgate among many and if we're going off just those decks I'd rather every "you can't play yugioh" card were at 1 than just having a single one banned, but Vanity's (and to a lesser extent, Mistake) are a different breed entirely.

[Toffee.]

Qli is its own thing, but it shows the absolute worst of the mechanic off, which is honestly disgusting. But it was a warning and way to get the worst out as early as possible. And Igknights take up the second half of that yoke, and, hopefully, they will also bury a terrible part of the mechanic.

The irony here is that they have only begun to tap into the true potential of Pendulums. What I mean is... Since they gave us Odd-Eyes Rebellion, it's honestly a sign of things to come, since they have opened a door to making more monsters half Pendulum. And at the rate Arc-V is going, expect a Synchro/Pendulum next. Though, a Fusion/Pendulum could appear before that, but that's a stretch.

Eithger way, I'm just saying that they are implying an expiremental phase with Ygo, if only because having other Pendulum-hybrids could be a thing.

[玄魔の王]

The irony here is that they have only begun to tap into the true potential of Pendulums. What I mean is... Since they gave us Odd-Eyes Rebellion, it's honestly a sign of things to come, since they have opened a door to making more monsters half Pendulum. And at the rate Arc-V is going, expect a Synchro/Pendulum next. Though, a Fusion/Pendulum could appear before that, but that's a stretch.

Eithger way, I'm just saying that they are implying an expiremental phase with Ygo, if only because having other Pendulum-hybrids could be a thing.

Deviantart has already latched onto the idea of Ritual Pendulums.

[Toffee.]

Deviantart has already latched onto the idea of Ritual Pendulums.

Likely because we have a fuckin' Nekroz Zefra monster who doubles as a Ritual Spell, and basically gives you unlimited Ritual Summons.

...

The card is terrible, but still.