Aix Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 One could be of the perspective that burden of proof lies on non-believers, for they are the ones claiming it does not exist. From my point of view that's the real "claim" here.The point that there is no God is the one that makes the least assumptions, hence the most convincing claim. Out of claims with equal amounts or lack of evidence, one chooses the one that makes the least assumptions. It is not perfect, of course. Also, what Rai said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I think being Agnostic is more healthy than Atheist that level of "finality" in life isn't healthy, keeping a open mind causes less issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Since this thread will probably get locked son, I should share whilst I can; I myself have experienced a massive change in religious belief over the course of my life. I've gone from being very much one of those aethiests who throws it in your face, to being instead a spiritual man. Not a religious man, because I don't identify my beliefs by the teachings of any religion, but a spiritual man in the sense I have all the confirmation I need that there is more to life than what seems to be material. That there is something else there. Now, whilst personally I believe that organised religion in the modern world is a shambles, and has been for centuries, I think that religion itself is a fine concept, and I am happy for those who can find faith in a given religion. I can't, as is a fairly sensible thing to say, everyone is entitled to there own beliefs and opinions, and I think trying to disprove or dissuade others from religious belief is a poor thing to do, because in a sense it is deny people's right to freedom. As a man once say 'I may not agree with your opinion, but I will fight to the death to defend your right to say it' However, I will make a remark on extremism, and people who remark about 'how people can do such horrible things over a book ect ect 'since I think it has come up briefly, is that in a lot of cases these people have been raised, or choose to believe certain aspects of religious text as fact. In a lot of cases, that's hard to relate to for people who have no had that, because it's an extreme opposition to the rest of us. Likewise, extremists ignoring the more peaceful aspects of religious texts (Because there's just as much peace and love and violence is the texts. Okay maybe not just as much, but it's certainty a strong message) is a matter of interpretation that is part of religion. All modern religion is an interpretation of how it was intended to be just through translation error if nothing else. So in essence, what I'm saying is whilst there actions seem irrational, they is a rational basis behind it all due to there vastly different beliefs to yours. They may be beliefs and ideologies that are out-dated by modern society, but they still have a rational basis to the individuals in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I think being Agnostic is more healthy than Atheist that level of "finality" in life isn't healthy, keeping a open mind causes less issues I personally dislike atheism, but if someone wants to be atheist, let them be atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure Wolf Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 People will always try to prove what they believe in. People can't prove God exists the same way no-one can prove jam isn't a living creature on a planet orbiting a star near the center of the galaxy. All people can do is believe in what they want and will try anything to prove they are right. That is when extremism happens, when people try to prove they are right no matter what even if it goes against what they believe in. As long as humanity is around we will always be like this. No-one is truly right or wrong until something happens which everyone can accept freely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 The point that there is no God is the one that makes the least assumptions, hence the most convincing claim. Out of claims with equal amounts or lack of evidence, one chooses the one that makes the least assumptions. It is not perfect, of course. Also, what Rai said.Again,it's a matter of perspective. I don't see my side being the most assumptive.Personally of course. Just my perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANZAI!!!! Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 You all do realize that we're discussing an abstract concept, yes? The idea of faith is so entirely divorced from determining a concrete fact that you can't in good concience confirm or deny the existance of a higher power. Whether or not there is a god is entrely irrelevant because people believe there is one, and others believe that there is not, and those beliefs shape how we live our lives and behave toward others. Its just as ignorant and pigheaded to ask for proof of a higher power as it is to look down upon people who do not conform to your religious beliefs. The only "fact" of the matter is that there is no fact of the matter. Belief is something constructed by each peron on an individual basis and none of you actually have the right to claim that any view is any more or less correct than any other view. The fact that there is a debate at all arises not from the validity of any one viewpoint, but rather people's inability to be tolerant of beliefs that are not their own. Faith is not science, and you should not treat it as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I personally dislike atheism, but if someone wants to be atheist, let them be atheist. That's not what I meant. Like I am agnostic and proud of it. I don't see evidence of God atm, but I am just a human and no without my many faults Why write off something permanently? Show me proof and I'll gladly believe Athiest are just like "NO! NEVER! NONONONONONONONO" Only Sith deal in absolutes Innocent Until proven Guilty Possible until proven impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simping For Hina Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 The truth is that people who hate religion and God are mediocre in intelligence at best. The smartest people in the world were always God apologists because they understood God in ways that were beyond religion that most people would be far too stupid to understand.I appreciate and love you. You're amazing. I don't believe in God but I'll believe in you. Atheists don't write off God, they just don't believe in the concrete evidence in an omnipotent idea. If there is proof, people can change their viewpoints. People can change, so religion doesn't make it "permanent", or there lack of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Faith is not science, and you should not treat it as such.Okay, since you are hardly the first to lack your critical thinking gear in regards to what I said, let's go over what I said earlier. I said the belief that God doesn't exist is just as much a form of faith as be;ieving he exists. There is no 'proof' either way, and to claim that there must be is wrong. Not once did I even put science into that equation. Forest Fire tried to, and I pointed out that I never intended science. So critical thinking, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Show me the proof. Do you believe in Unicorns too btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Show me the proof. Do you believe in Unicorns too btw? Snarkiness not appreciated. I'll very cautiously let the discussion keep going, but all the snarkiness and not-quite-flaming is not in the equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo. Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Well Cosmo drops in because why not? I am a pretty weird person, i want proof for everything, but i believe in fairies, unicorns and all that fantasy stuff. I grew up (and still growing up) in a catholic family and community, but they are all pretty chill and nice. In my opinion, something superior must exist, otherwise what would've triggered the big bang that created EVERYTHING? I'm not a type that often goes to church (i only go on holidays or family stuff), but i do believe that something superior does exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitor Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 You can't argue fact vs. faith. People who believe in a god throw themselves wholeheartedly behind their faith. Those who do not are not able to see the logic behind throwing themselves wholeheartedly behind their faith, because what if they're wrong? It should not be interpreted that such logic is wrong, because there is no logic at all. That's why I've never been a fan of these discussions. It's physically impossible for one side to be wrong or right because, as I said, you can't argue fact (or lack thereof) vs. faith. My stance? I consider myself a Christian, but I take a more Agnostic approach. I will never deny the existence of a god, nor will I endorse it. One way or another is fine based on what you believe in, but we all have to do as much as we can for ourselves. Basically, I place some faith in a god, but I'm only calling until I see the Flop. Only then will I be comfertable Folding this hand or going All In Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mshends Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I became an atheist because god wasn't there when I needed him and then I realized he was never there, I was almost raped (and killed) by a Pedophile in 2008. All the time this was happening I prayed to god, and guess what, nothing happen, no miracle, no NOTHING! I have come to the conclusion that god doesn't exist, and even if he does exist, then he was just standing there, doing nothing, watching me almost getting raped. My 666th posts, wow...-_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I'm about to say something weird. I believe unicorns and many other things could possibly exist. However I know that's a silly thought and it doesn't affect how I feel about God existing. That's a very different concept as Kotori had already very well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aix Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Again,it's a matter of perspective. I don't see my side being the most assumptive. Personally of course. Just my perspective.Nothing is the default state without assumptions, otherwise everything exists. Or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BANZAI!!!! Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Okay, since you are hardly the first to lack your critical thinking gear in regards to what I said, let's go over what I said earlier. I said the belief that God doesn't exist is just as much a form of faith as be;ieving he exists. There is no 'proof' either way, and to claim that there must be is wrong. Not once did I even put science into that equation. Forest Fire tried to, and I pointed out that I never intended science. So critical thinking, please.Not only are you not understanding what i mean by that sentence, but you immeadiately assumed it was directed at you. It was not. So before you backhandedly insult me by stating that I lack the mental faculties to properly comprehend what you're saying, I'd appreciate it if you took a second to realize that we more or less share the same opinion. "Science" does not mean experimenting to determine whether or not god exists. It means treating the existance of god at all as something provable at all via concrete thought. Its a matter of belief, which entirely divorced from that type of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo. Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I'm about to say something weird. I believe unicorns and many other things could possibly exist. However I know that's a silly thought and it doesn't affect how I feel about God existing. That's a very different concept as Kotori had already very well said.Woot woot for same opinions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 As an agnostic, I believe a god of creation existed, I do not believe a god of intervention exists Lets be honest. If a god is clever enough to create Quantum mechanics and Relativity, is he really going to care that one, out of Trillions of his creations, (me), missed his plane?....he has bigger things to worry about I am open to the idea that some higher entity made us to be, but I can't believe that he'll come running like a dog if I sit and pray really hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Nothing is the default state without assumptions, otherwise everything exists. Or something like that.I'm not sure what you mean. What's the default state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinny Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 For people thinking about how God neglects and that God doesn't do much right now.Then think about this scripture that they bible says, John 15:9 The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one.It really helps you to understand that viewpoint alot better, I haven't seen anyone in particular yet that is saying it, but it is a hot point to try to disprove religion in general.Anyways, tolerance is key here really, that's all there is too it, because I don't think any of us are experienced enough in different cultures and religion to understand and disprove each one, so, please be calmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 One job. You had one funking job guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 For me, "God" would be similar to the 5 dimensional beings in Interstellar. Can anyone else relate? I don't see an old man in a toga, I just see a advanced race that really doesn't give too many funk what we do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure Wolf Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 My picture of God isn't really there. God is three separate entities, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Father is the one we closely relate to God but we have no real knowledge of him except that he is holy and all knowing. The Son was Jesus who died to allow us to be saved, which is why God doesn't do anything. He has given us a way out as well as the choice to make that decision. The Holy Spirit is what calls to people to spread the news of the Lord and helps people though times even if it doesn't seem like it. As Spinda has mentioned the world is ruled by Lucifer/Satan, and will be until the end of days as stated in Revelations. God has provided a way out and it is up to us to take that way out. Either way people are entitled to their opinions. I'm not as religious as I appear to be from my posts here, I'm just writing what comes to me and some of the friends I've had have been from different ways of life, one going from Buddhism to a brief period of Satanism before just not caring. All one can do is live their life as they want, no can tell you how to live it. Some will try to move you down their path and others will just give you insight to different walks of life. Life is a road with different junctions to go off, each of these junctions help define who we are. There is no road map or signs just does who follow the traffic and see where it takes them and those you drive for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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