Wildflame Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I do. I just have the certainty that there's something "up there". Name it as you like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I believe in God and love Him wholheartedly. Whenever I'm at my lowest, a little voice leads me where I need to be, even if I don't know it. Like leading me to Bree, who I suddenly realized I felt true love for a week before I told her I had a "crush" on her, when she was going to kill herself soon after had I not. He's always been there when I needed Him most. Even when I begged, almost daily, to have never been born. However... I don't hold much love for God's "people". The church as a whole angers me. Most of my adult life, I've found it to be chock full of hypocrites looking to get ahead or puff up their chest. It's no different than high school. Than life. It's not a blessed place for the weak and weary to come to, it's a popularity contest for all ages. Who donated the most? Who did the 'best deeds'? Who met an 'angel hobo'? It's stupid. It's not what it's meant to be at all. The biggest threat to Christianity is Christians themselves, and it sickens me. I wanted to be a pastor, but I don't have enough love for the congregation to do that. I haven't in a long time. And I'm no shining pinnacle of humanity, but at least I don't flaunt God as some badge to make me right, or to make me better. The church is, most times, nothing but a den of thieves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Fire Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I'm actually curious what you mean when you say proof. We talking 100% certainty here or what? How about just something non- biased? and if possible more than one. also some sort of explanation as to how an all powerful being could just exist without anything else existing before it did would be nice. thanks. I myself do believe in God because of the experiences I've had. And as scientists can say with more confidence the more data they collect that their theories are supported the more I experience the more confidently I can say that I do believe. and because of experiences I've had I don't believe in God. that or he/she/it is a major douche. no offense to you or your religion. i agree with this video 100%: If there is a Heaven and a God, I'd personally rather not meet him/her/it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Can I just say I have not seen anything from Stephen Fry that didn't make me cringe?I don't really care what he has to say about the situation, sorry. ^^; Granted I don't search for stuff he says, so I don't know a lot of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourmaline Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I don't believe in an Abrahamic God at all anymore. Actually, I've gone so far beyond that discussion that it isn't even a debate worth having to me regardless of who I am with. That being said, God does exist, but not as an anthropomorphic idea. God is not a religious entity but is actually interchangeable with the universe as an organic infinity that everything that ever was and will be is interlinked to and part of. Every little thing in the universe is everything as one and everything independent simultaneously (this is why complexity is an illusion and does not actually exist). An infinite substance, as Spinoza would mention, that is undeniably the true meaning of God as nature and the universe, also comprising of all as they are physically, metaphysically and independent of human concept. So I do believe in God, but only in a philosophy similar to Spinoza, Einstein, et cetera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I don't believe in an Abrahamic God at all anymore. Actually, I've gone so far beyond that discussion that it isn't even a debate worth having to me regardless of who I am with. That being said, God does exist, but not as an anthropomorphic idea. God is not a religious entity but is actually interchangeable with the universe as an organic infinity that everything that ever was and will be is interlinked to and part of. Every little thing in the universe is everything as one and everything independent simultaneously (this is why complexity is an illusion and does not actually exist). An infinite substance, as Spinoza would mention, that is undeniably the true meaning of God as nature and the universe, also comprising of all as they are physically, metaphysically and independent of human concept. So I do believe in God, but only in a philosophy similar to Spinoza, Einstein, et cetera.You should read Pendragon. They play with a concept similar to that one, though that comes near the end. As for me, I feel like there's something out there. I do believe in God, I'm not sure if He's the one Christianity, Judaism and Islam all believe in (I was under the impression they're one and the same, please correct me if I'm wrong), but something's watching over us. Probably.I don't know if God is a humanoid, a shining ball of light, the universe itself, or what, but honestly, I want Him to be real. Part of why I believe in God is because it's comforting knowing that there might be some afterlife waiting for us after death and that there might actually be a meaning to life beyond fleeting chance. I think it'd be cool to come to face with God after dying and realizing this isn't the end, but another beginning, whether it's off to the afterlife or to get reincarnated.Although I'm hoping He's not strict about a minimum attendance count to get into Heaven because I think I'm only ever at church once or twice a year. I dunno, if it were me, I'd say just being a good person should be enough criteria, regardless of how devout you were in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Jacket Posted June 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Yeah I don't believe in god. But I do believe in the universe. My mother got me used to the idea that whatever positive energy and such you put out to the universe is what you get back. So I do believe in a higher power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Yeah I don't believe in god. But I do believe in the universe. My mother got me used to the idea that whatever positive energy and such you put out to the universe is what you get back. So I do believe in a higher power.I can agree with you there. I definitely believe in karma, because I'm usually rewarded accordingly whenever I act selflessly or selfishly. I wouldn't be surprised if reincarnation happens after you die and your overall karma dictates whether you come back as another human or as something mindless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a bad post Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I'm actually curious what you mean when you say proof. We talking 100% certainty here or what? How about just something non- biased? and if possible more than one. also some sort of explanation as to how an all powerful being could just exist without anything else existing before it did would be nice. thanks. I myself do believe in God because of the experiences I've had. And as scientists can say with more confidence the more data they collect that their theories are supported the more I experience the more confidently I can say that I do believe. and because of experiences I've had I don't believe in God. that or he/she/it is a major douche. no offense to you or your religion. i agree with this video 100%: If there is a Heaven and a God, I'd personally rather not meet him/her/it. To answer your question I would like to remind you that the universe had to start somewhere. Something or someone had to "just exist" to get the ball rolling. I also find it funny how people blame all evil in the world on God. I would like to remind everybody that while if there is a God, there is also a Devil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 To answer your question I would like to remind you that the universe had to start somewhere. Something or someone had to "just exist" to get the ball rolling. I also find it funny how people blame all evil in the world on God. I would like to remind everybody that while if there is a God, there is also a Devil.The way I see it, God's like a parent that is letting humanity live their own lives. Make their own mistakes, learn from them, and if they come to Him when they're in pain or need comforting, console them and give them the nudge they need to go back and face the problem, if they're listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Fire Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 To answer your question I would like to remind you that the universe had to start somewhere. Something or someone had to "just exist" to get the ball rolling. And because Science can't explain that, God. Excellent argument. I also find it funny how people blame all evil in the world on God. I would like to remind everybody that while if there is a God, there is also a Devil. That God actually literally created. He created the angel Lucifer, or whatever the hell his name is. So... yeah. Envy, pride, whatever Luci had would have also had to have been created by God because... reasons..... "Yep. I have created such a magnificent world, better make sure there's some bad s*** too this way one of my angels can eventually try to overthrow me and all." The way I see it, God's like a parent that is letting humanity live their own lives. Make their own mistakes, learn from them, and if they come to Him when they're in pain or need comforting, console them and give them the nudge they need to go back and face the problem, if they're listening.so they should also be inflicted pain by things outside off their control... lovely idea. yep. "you ate from the tree of knowledge. not only shall you suffer through your own devices, but through mine as well." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 so they should also be inflicted pain by things outside off their control... lovely idea. yep. "you ate from the tree of knowledge. not only shall you suffer through your own devices, but through mine as well."Sarcasm and ignorance is a bad combination. I'm sorry but that isn't really the idea. The idea is that all our fuckups are our own fault. We have choice and opportunities for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunar Origins Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I believe in Pastafarianism because we get an official "Talk like a Pirate Day" and really that's the only thing I need out of a religion. But if you wanted something serious to come out of this discussion, god forbid, try not to discredit people's personal experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 so they should also be inflicted pain by things outside off their control... lovely idea. yep. "you ate from the tree of knowledge. not only shall you suffer through your own devices, but through mine as well."Nah, my point is God doesn't meddle in our affairs. Humanity's ultimately responsible for everything right and wrong in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Fire Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Sarcasm and ignorance is a bad combination. I'm sorry but that isn't really the idea. The idea is that all our f***ups are our own fault. We have choice and opportunities for a reason.but there are things that cause pain that are outside of our control. i don't thing it's a newborn's fault that it's mom decided to get drunk while pregnant. if you do, that's on you. if you think it's ignorant to think that there's some suffering that humans just don't deserve, that's on you.before this becomes a flame war though, can we get back to the main point? God's exist/non existence. I, personally, will not believe in a God until there's some non- biased proof in front of my face. if you can provide that, great. if not, oh well. it's not on me to prove there is a god. the burden of proof is on those that do believe. they're the one's that made the big claim, they should have some proof.Nah, my point is God doesn't meddle in our affairs. Humanity's ultimately responsible for everything right and wrong in the world.including disease, storms, etc. .... right.. i think you need to re- evaluate that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 but there are things that cause pain that are outside of our control. i don't thing it's a newborn's fault that it's mom decided to get drunk while pregnant. if you do, that's on you. if you think it's ignorant to think that there's some suffering that humans just don't deserve, that's on you.before this becomes a flame war though, can we get back to the main point? God's exist/non existence. I, personally, will not believe in a God until there's some non- biased proof in front of my face. if you can provide that, great. if not, oh well. it's not on me to prove there is a god. the burden of proof is on those that do believe. they're the one's that made the big claim, they should have some proof.Religion is about faith. Believing. You can't demand proof of that, it's illogical. No one worth their stock claims they can prove God. Dmanding proof just comes across as a childish means to not defend your point well enough, as opposed to supplying logic. You say "back to the main point", but that was never the point. This thread was about personal beliefs, and you're trying to turn it into an attack on the beliefs that were meant to be discussed peacefully. I had the same problem with the OP citing a lack of proof, but they didn't do it with fangs bared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinny Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I believe in god, i find it hard not to. The alternative of not knowing where im from or believing in the consistently changing scientific beliefs is something i wouldnt like to have to do. I try to keep up the standards of the bible at all times, I believe that, even if it isnt true in someone else's eyes, it doesnt mean the standards dont make me a better person (well, not in a stuck-up "Im better than you," kind of way, but you get what i mean).Also, i dont like how people are so un-accepting in general (my school) and stuff, they think they are right and that's that, this world is open, and im not gonna judge you for what you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Jacket Posted June 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Well said. You can believe what you like. I don't see proof of god that's what turns me off. If all I needed was to believe then I could believe Blue-Eyes White Dragon was god and praise it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest Fire Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Religion is about faith. Believing. You can't demand proof of that, it's illogical. No one worth their stock claims they can prove God. Sucks for you then. Demanding proof just comes across as a childish means to not defend your point well enough Except I'm not the one making the gigantic claim here. I'm not the one who has the burden of proof. Proof that you can't provide because it doesn't exist. If I were to make the claim that unicorns were real because they were in a 2000 or so year old book then ask you to prove that they didn't exist, I'd be crazy. Because you can't prove that unicorns ever existed since they didn't. God was a creation by humans to get other humans to do what they want. That's it. The idea of a God is as fantastical as, well, unicorns. I had the same problem with the OP citing a lack of proof, but they didn't do it with fangs bared. I believe in god, i find it hard not to. The alternative of not knowing where im from or believing in the consistently changing scientific beliefs is something i wouldnt like to have to do. I try to keep up the standards of the bible at all times, So you don't wear mixed clothes, eat bacon, work on Sundays, etc.? and think that if a man rapes a woman she should have to marry him? Cause guess what, that's in the bible. I believe that, even if it isnt true in someone else's eyes, it doesnt mean the standards dont make me a better person (well, not in a stuck-up "Im better than you," kind of way, but you get what i mean). Also, i dont like how people are so un-accepting in general (my school) and stuff, they think they are right and that's that, this world is open, and im not gonna judge you for what you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
- Minimania - Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 As a Christian, I think that it doesn't matter if you try to prove it wrong, because I'm just going to disregard you and not listen to you, but I'm not the kind of Christian to try and turn you. I can't exactly do that if your canvas isn't blank. If you see what the supposed "truth" is, good for you, but I see what my supposed "truth" is, and I'm not letting another painter wipe that progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinny Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Ignore this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 but there are things that cause pain that are outside of our control. i don't thing it's a newborn's fault that it's mom decided to get drunk while pregnant. if you do, that's on you. if you think it's ignorant to think that there's some suffering that humans just don't deserve, that's on you.before this becomes a flame war though, can we get back to the main point? God's exist/non existence. I, personally, will not believe in a God until there's some non- biased proof in front of my face. if you can provide that, great. if not, oh well. it's not on me to prove there is a god. the burden of proof is on those that do believe. they're the one's that made the big claim, they should have some proof.including disease, storms, etc. .... right.. i think you need to re- evaluate that statement. That is not why I thought it was ignorant, I just didn't think you understood what the idea was. I don't see what would've made this into a flame war...And the main point is to talk about god/religion isn't it? That's what I did.... It's not on people who believe in God to prove there is. If you say that, why not say that those who disbelief should come up with some solid proof?In my opinion saying that there is absolutely no God is a pretty big claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Sucks for you then. Except I'm not the one making the gigantic claim here. I'm not the one who has the burden of proof. Proof that you can't provide because it doesn't exist. If I were to make the claim that unicorns were real because they were in a 2000 or so year old book then ask you to prove that they didn't exist, I'd be crazy. Because you can't prove that unicorns ever existed since they didn't. God was a creation by humans to get other humans to do what they want. That's it. The idea of a God is as fantastical as, well, unicorns. That doesn't suck for me. If that's your best response, which I truly hope it isn't, then you're just proving the childish point. Wow, you actually got worse. Time for some devil's advocate. If God or equivalent ideas have been around since the beginning of time, more or less... Would that not make YOUR claim the gigantic one? You keep trying to pin the burden on proof on others who cmake a claim, but you're the one demanding that your claim is right, and that a lack of supplied proof 'sucks for you'. So how about looking in a mirror and undrstanding that your lack of belief in God is nothing but faith, just the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusion X. Denver Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 including disease, storms, etc. .... right.. i think you need to re- evaluate that statement. I should've added "I think" into my statement since I meant to speak from my perspective, not as a definitive statement. But stuff like disease and storms are part of nature, independent of everything else going on. They're not inherently evil occurrences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 I think the phrase "That's life" is applicable here. Life is neither good nor bad, it just is. What is done with that life is what counts.Which is generally where religion comes in for me. A way of living that strives to make the most out of the life that is given to us.Even if there is no God that doesn't mean all things "godly" are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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