[RP Discussion] Limited Acceptance RPs

[Aix]

We haven't had a discussion for a while, so let's talk. What's your opinion on Limited Acceptance RPs? Do you think it works to limit acceptance? Do you have an opinion on the Limited Acceptance procedure?

[Cosmo.]

Limited Acceptance RPs are certainly easier to control for the host and it helps a lot with the story. The RP i'm working on will be a limited acceptance (since you know, 17 magical girls running around defeating witches is a bit chaotic...) with only 5 members (myself included). 

 

The downside to it is for the people who want to join, maybe they notice it a bit late and all the open roles are gone.

[Mugendramon]

Giving a deadline and accepting the best characters, as opposed to first come first serve, works both to make the players invest themselves in their characters and also assures quality and manageability for the host, while not forbidding those who would want to participate from applying.

[bury the year]

The problem with "limited acceptance" roleplays, and the trap I see too many people fall into imho, is that you can't have too few slots for people to apply to. If you do that, you have that much more of a burden on each individual player. If there are 5 players and one vanishes, that's 20% of your roleplay gone.

I also think applications shouldn't be closed for good once the RP starts. At some point in you should reopen, to let people who were previously interested join.

[Astolfo]

I think it's good and bad.

Less people = more importance for each of those said people.

More people = more chaos/more to manage/more to post.

 

Less spots = More quality since people will compete.

More spots = Less people will be rejected (A good thing I guess?)

 

But yeah, reopening spots later would be a good idea too, but generally, I think limited acceptance to maybe 5-6 people is good?

[Chaotic Angel]

I wouldn't have minded either way. The reason why I choose not to have that basis is because I'd like to give others the opportunity to join my RP as well, but that's just me.

[Love of Ghibli]

Limited Acceptance seems like something is a double edged sword. While I don't really get the correlation between limited acceptance and higher quality apps, it could be a thing. On the other hand I think that limited acceptance forces a narrow margin of people to be more active which means it will go south quicker. If every character is more relevant then one has to hope that character's controller doesn't get writer's block or something that would cause stagnation. Reopening slots also sounds weird. You've already slighted people by not accepting their apps which means that their interest has probably left as well. So basically you would be relaunching the RP again. 

I tend to think Limited Acceptance is doable, just ill-advised.

[Astolfo]

Limited Acceptance seems like something is a double edged sword. While I don't really get the correlation between limited acceptance and higher quality apps, it could be a thing. On the other hand I think that limited acceptance forces a narrow margin of people to be more active which means it will go south quicker. If every character is more relevant then one has to hope that character's controller doesn't get writer's block or something that would cause stagnation. Reopening slots also sounds weird. You've already slighted people by not accepting their apps which means that their interest has probably left as well. So basically you would be relaunching the RP again. 

I tend to think Limited Acceptance is doable, just ill-advised.

If people think a RP is good, but there's more people that want to join than spots available, it creates competition, since only the best apps will make it in.

[Love of Ghibli]

If people think a RP is good, but there's more people that want to join than spots available, it creates competition, since only the best apps will make it in.

Okay I guess you're addressing the point of app quality correlating with limited acceptance. However that logic further supports my whole getting slighted angle. If you work so hard and you're arbitrarily turned down at a minimum your interest is gone.

[Astolfo]

Well just because you work hard doesn't mean it's good.

[BANZAI!!!!]

Giving a deadline and accepting the best characters, as opposed to first come first serve, works both to make the players invest themselves in their characters and also assures quality and manageability for the host, while not forbidding those who would want to participate from applying.

 

The problem with "limited acceptance" roleplays, and the trap I see too many people fall into imho, is that you can't have too few slots for people to apply to. If you do that, you have that much more of a burden on each individual player. If there are 5 players and one vanishes, that's 20% of your roleplay gone.

I also think applications shouldn't be closed for good once the RP starts. At some point in you should reopen, to let people who were previously interested join.

 

Was going to write one of my long winded opinions here, but the above basically sum up what i would say.

 

Competition for app slots forces applicants to put more effort into their work, just like line minimums do. If you can't be bothered to do your best for an rp application, then you should think twice about applying at all, because there are people who certainly will.

 

That being said, limited acceptance does not suit every RP concept. Knowing your audience is key and limited acceptance shouldn't be bothered with it if it isn't needed. some RPs will function better if apps are constantly open, for instance.

[Chaotic Angel]

Yes, I see what Zai is trying to say.

 

Though, one cannot help line limitations sometimes if:

 

1. The standards of RPing have increased or

 

2. Not enough potential RPers are putting in the effort most people like me would have wanted.

 

I almost always have my RP open in every instance. I'd sometimes close them off but temporarily at most.

 

So yeah, overall in terms of line limitations... It just applies if I think some RP noobs are either not putting enough effort in their apps or they just simply put hosts off, which is kinda unlikely, but it has happened.

[Aix]

The downside to it is for the people who want to join, maybe they notice it a bit late and all the open roles are gone.

Most of the time Limited Acceptance is based on quality of apps rather than first come first serve. So when you notice doesn't matter.

 

The problem with "limited acceptance" roleplays, and the trap I see too many people fall into imho, is that you can't have too few slots for people to apply to. If you do that, you have that much more of a burden on each individual player. If there are 5 players and one vanishes, that's 20% of your roleplay gone.

On the other hand though, it's possible to carry (take temp control of) or kill off 1 character who is lagging the RP, but when more people drop as is common in larger RPs, it just becomes weird. More people also means more chances of people dropping. All in all though, I don't find this sort of thing to be an issue.

 

Okay I guess you're addressing the point of app quality correlating with limited acceptance. However that logic further supports my whole getting slighted angle. If you work so hard and you're arbitrarily turned down at a minimum your interest is gone.

In my experience, this doesn't usually happen. Most people stay interested in an RP they've applied for and put effort towards.

 

[hr]

 

I like Limited Acceptance because a small RP runs very smoothly and each character can interact more closely with each of the other characters, creating a tight group. Also Limited Acceptance allows you to maintain a balance of roles and character diversity. I do agree with opening up spots later, plot permitting.

[Sethera]

I both like and dislike limited acceptance.

 

From what I've seen, limited acceptance is a good way to motivate people to work hard to make a good application when they otherwise wouldn't. It's also a way for the host to see who is most invested in the RP, which is always a plus. Investment is key in RPs, because without it, they can die really easily. Those who put more work and effort (showing their investment) into their apps are usually the ones that are accepted. However, there are exceptions...

 

Those who are new to the game of role playing oftentimes don't have the first clue on how to make a good app, or heck, even a good character. Sure, there is an app-making guide that Rinne made, which is insanely helpful for both newbies and oldies, but there are people who have a hard time learning from just reading a guide. Experience is the best teacher for them. In these cases, if the RP thread is full of limited acceptance RPs, it can be hard to get one's metaphorical foot in the door.

 

Also, from what I've seen, sometimes the newbies are the most invested in an RP, more so than the experienced, skilled RPers. Speaking of that, I agree that the more prominent a position somebody has within an RP, the more it hurts when they drop from it or are inactive for a time, which can be a problem with limited acceptance RPs.

 

Imo, the more people that can learn how make good apps and how to RP well, the better. A bit off-topic: it'd be nice if there were some sort of "RP Workshop" but sometimes those things die because of lack of interest on both sides.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Okay I've got a lot to say.

 

First, I think the only good way of doing limited acceptance is to be sure that you set a deadline, make it clear, make it long enough for people to try and join (At very least a week) advertise, and explain what you'll be looking for in an app.

When picking you shouldn't just take the best apps, but also the apps (And RPers) that you think will go best together.

Now, here are some issues.

As long as you do what I mentioned at the start this shouldn't be an issue. However it can be. People not getting a chance to join because they missed the deadline and/or weren't on at the same time as several others who joined first.

 

A huge issue I have though...is the "App quality" thing. It bothers me the idea of rejecting an app because it's "not as good". Now, I don't mean that you need to accept bad apps. However I do think it's important to note that just because Person A had a "better" app than Person B. It does not mean Person B is the worse choice for the RP.

 

And another thing that can be an issue. A person might work on an app, do a really good job, but then find out someone else posted a similar character a little before them. Sure competition is okay in some cases but it does feel unfair because...Well  what if both apps are good? They both worked on it and did good, just that they are similar characters/roles which is (understandably) not a thing you want in certain RPs. Competition means that you work harder on things yes but it also means that someone could work hard and make a good app but lose out just because someone else was a little better.

 

So basically. I don't mind limited acceptance as long as everything is made clear from the start and enough time is given. However there are quite a few issues that arise with it.

 

 

Well just because you work hard doesn't mean it's good.

Also I don't particularly like this line of thinking. Being elitist about what's good can push people away from RPs and we won't see improvement.
Which is why I tend to prefer working with the people on their apps when I see an issue, rather than trying to pick the best apps, personally.

[bury the year]

Sure, there is an app-making guide that Rinne made, which is insanely helpful for both newbies and oldies, but there are people who have a hard time learning from just reading a guide.

Off topic, but I've had part 3 of that guide half-written for what seems like forever. I should buckle down this weekend and get that done (among other things).

[The Warden]

In a place like YCM where attention spans are shorter than fun-size chocolate bars, I am strongly against Limited Acceptance. Plus, it just seems arrogant to demand the best. If you want the best, write a freaking fanfic, you'll get what you want that way. Numbers ensure survival, like Darwinism. The weaker species will die off, but the most dedicated will survive because they have the diligence to keep going. Having a tighter knit group doesn't guarantee survival, it just makes things more likely to fail when one of the chair legs drops off. Really, locking people out is douchey as, again, you're cutting down your survival rate. The more people you bar from joining, the more likely it is the RP will die. More people of course doesn't mean the RP as a whole will be better, but, it will at least give it more life.

 

Really though, if attention drops, that's usually the fault of the creator anyways. If it's not interesting enough to get people devoted to it, then something is kinda going wrong there. But laziness is a factor, and, as I said, YCM's attention span is smaller than a gnat's dong. So it goes both ways as to why a RP can bomb. Limited Accptance can work, it's just, YCM is NOT the place for it.

[Maeriberii Haan]

A big thing regarding why limited acceptance RP in YCM fail early in my opinion, is the big emphasis on shared co-host status that usually happens in a 4-6 people RP.

 

Thing is...when most plot development is determined by the entire group...it kills most thrill related to the unknown from the RP, and at times, since the players are usually arriving with the mentality of well...a player instead of a host, at times it really can grind progress to a halt, add a development that leads to nowhere, or just generally being a pain. Forum RP is not a tabletop game with clear stats and rule and setting to allow sandbox-like development be completely encouraged after all. Structure of how things should generally go needs to still be there.

 

But really, limited acceptance RP felt more like collaborative fic writing tbh.

[Aix]

A big thing regarding why limited acceptance RP in YCM fail early in my opinion, is the big emphasis on shared co-host status that usually happens in a 4-6 people RP.
 
Thing is...when most plot development is determined by the entire group...it kills most thrill related to the unknown from the RP, and at times, since the players are usually arriving with the mentality of well...a player instead of a host, at times it really can grind progress to a halt, add a development that leads to nowhere, or just generally being a pain.

Hmmm, I see. Next time I do limited acceptance I'll avoid making co-hosts then.

[Maeriberii Haan]

It's not about having everyone be a cohost.

 

it's about putting too much emphasis on those to the point of the RP is entirely run by everyone. In a limited acceptance RP, in a way people contributing to the plot with more lenience should be encouraged to get more attachment to the RP itself, but the models so far ran to the problem of "too many cooks spoil the soup".

 

Basically imo a slightly nice way to go for this is a middle ground between the two concepts. Where everyone has some degree on influence on the thing, but the host would have more control regarding everything, especially plot progression. Or something to that effect.

[BANZAI!!!!]

A huge issue I have though...is the "App quality" thing. It bothers me the idea of rejecting an app because it's "not as good". Now, I don't mean that you need to accept bad apps. However I do think it's important to note that just because Person A had a "better" app than Person B. It does not mean Person B is the worse choice for the RP.

 

 

And another thing that can be an issue. A person might work on an app, do a really good job, but then find out someone else posted a similar character a little before them. Sure competition is okay in some cases but it does feel unfair because...Well  what if both apps are good? They both worked on it and did good, just that they are similar characters/roles which is (understandably) not a thing you want in certain RPs. Competition means that you work harder on things yes but it also means that someone could work hard and make a good app but lose out just because someone else was a little better.

 

So basically. I don't mind limited acceptance as long as everything is made clear from the start and enough time is given. However there are quite a few issues that arise with it.

 

 

Also I don't particularly like this line of thinking. Being elitist about what's good can push people away from RPs and we won't see improvement.

Which is why I tend to prefer working with the people on their apps when I see an issue, rather than trying to pick the best apps, personally.

Something I think you're missing is that "app quality" does not simply mean that someone wrote a mechanically better application than someone else. As a host its my job to look for the best cast dynamic and roleplayer dynamics (dedication, skill level, etc) in addition to the most fitting, well thought out, well written application. If, after taking all of these things into account, one  app is slightly better than another, than that's quite frankly too bad for the slightly worse one. Its nothing personal, but my hypothetical limited acceptance RP only has X number of slots, and works best with that X number. If you don't quite make the cut, then that's just how things go. One still loses a race even if they come in one stride behind the winner.

 

Speaking of races, I think you're also unaware of one of the reasons that we put deadlines in our limited acceptance Rps, and its kind of an important one. If you don't have time to submit an app by the deadline, then that means that your schedule isn't open enough at that moment for you to actively participate in the RP in the first place, and therefore someone who can submit by the deadline (ie, someone with the necessary amount of time on their hands) is the better choice.

 

Lastly, I think I can safely say that most of the hosts here aren't elitist (I myself am probably the one amongst us who leans the most in that direction, and you guys know me well enough to know that that isn't how i am). We're simply doing our jobs as hosts and trying to keep our roleplays alive, and if whatever project we're working on isn't necessarily newbie friendly, then that's our prerogative as a creator. We aren't preventing anyone from applying, and if a newer applicant wants to try their hand, more power to them. Tougher apps build skill after all.

 

In a place like YCM where attention spans are shorter than fun-size chocolate bars, I am strongly against Limited Acceptance. Plus, it just seems arrogant to demand the best. If you want the best, write a freaking fanfic, you'll get what you want that way. Numbers ensure survival, like Darwinism. The weaker species will die off, but the most dedicated will survive because they have the diligence to keep going. Having a tighter knit group doesn't guarantee survival, it just makes things more likely to fail when one of the chair legs drops off. Really, locking people out is douchey as, again, you're cutting down your survival rate. The more people you bar from joining, the more likely it is the RP will die. More people of course doesn't mean the RP as a whole will be better, but, it will at least give it more life.

 

Really though, if attention drops, that's usually the fault of the creator anyways. If it's not interesting enough to get people devoted to it, then something is kinda going wrong there. But laziness is a factor, and, as I said, YCM's attention span is smaller than a gnat's dong. So it goes both ways as to why a RP can bomb. Limited Accptance can work, it's just, YCM is NOT the place for it.

Larger casts also tend to clog the roleplay and make a tougher time for the host, since its their job to keep everyone relevant to the plot and involved in it. In addition to that, one RPer leaving a roleplay usually leads to other people jumping ship as well, since it sets a precedent that doing so is an option, and we all know what that does to the morale of the group trying to push an RP forward. Look at any of YCM's failed yugioh Rps and you'll see exactly this happening. More participants does not equal a longer-lived RP, since its pretty evident that the RP mortality rate is near 100% across the board.

 

Also, no, when attention drops in an RP, its usually because a player simply has become bored. The second that posting becomes a chore is when 99% of rpers leave, and most of the time that has little of anything to do with the host themselves and more to do with someone's attention span. We're all used to our fiction either being laid out in front of us in large portions (books, fanfiction) or being instantly gratifying and visually spectacular (TV, movies, anime). Roleplays tend to progress slowly and are a text based medium here, and so lack the qualities of both, which makes it all the more difficult  for a person to get invested. One has to work for the same result that they can get in another medium with 0 effort, and a lot of people simply lack the drive to continue putting in that work for long periods.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Something I think you're missing is that "app quality" does not simply mean that someone wrote a mechanically better application than someone else. As a host its my job to look for the best cast dynamic and roleplayer dynamics (dedication, skill level, etc) in addition to the most fitting, well thought out, well written application. If, after taking all of these things into account, one  app is slightly better than another, than that's quite frankly too bad for the slightly worse one. Its nothing personal, but my hypothetical limited acceptance RP only has X number of slots, and works best with that X number. If you don't quite make the cut, then that's just how things go. One still loses a race even if they come in one stride behind the winner.

 

Speaking of races, I think you're also unaware of one of the reasons that we put deadlines in our limited acceptance Rps, and its kind of an important one. If you don't have time to submit an app by the deadline, then that means that your schedule isn't open enough at that moment for you to actively participate in the RP in the first place, and therefore someone who can submit by the deadline (ie, someone with the necessary amount of time on their hands) is the better choice.

 

Lastly, I think I can safely say that most of the hosts here aren't elitist (I myself am probably the one amongst us who leans the most in that direction, and you guys know me well enough to know that that isn't how i am). We're simply doing our jobs as hosts and trying to keep our roleplays alive, and if whatever project we're working on isn't necessarily newbie friendly, then that's our prerogative as a creator. We aren't preventing anyone from applying, and if a newer applicant wants to try their hand, more power to them. Tougher apps build skill after all.

Yes, I know, and that is exactly what I said people should look at.

 

I am not unaware of that, I never said anything about that. In fact the only thing I said regarding deadlines was to make it clear and give enough time. (As in don't close it within a few hours... *whistles innocently and looking at a certain moderator* )

 

I wasn't saying anything about the hosts. That particular statement was elitist, that's all.