[Card Discussion] Introducing Null Monsters, a new Extra Deck Sub-Type! (Looking for advice)

[Mitchell Humphries]

What is a Null Monster?

 

 

Null Monsters are new kind of Extra Deck summoning (Oh no! Not another! Doesn't Yu-Gi-Oh have enough of those already!?). So what makes Null Monsters so special you may ask? You Normal Summon them from the Extra Deck! In theory, this would make Null Monsters incredibly broken- Xyz, Synchro, and the occasional Fusion Summon would become far too easy to pull off! But is this really the case? Let's take a closer look at an actual Null Monster to find out...

 

 

Notice how Crystal-Eyes Clear Dragon completely lacks not only a Level, but a Rank and Attribute? If you take an even closer look, you'll see that there' not even a Type; the card just states that Crystal-Eyes is a Null Monster! This isn't a typo- after all, being able to easily get Extra Deck materials out from your Extra Deck would be incredibly broken, especially since you don't have to draw them. Just like your average monster that you would Normal Summon, more powerful monsters require tributes, but you can summon weaker monsters at any time. How do you determine the number of tributes required?

 

 

Notice what Crystal-Eyes Clear Dragon and Initbeat Hotblade have in common? Look where their attribute would be located and count the amount of stars located there- that's their "Age." The Age of a Null Monster tells you how many tributes they require to be Normal Summoned. As you can see, both Crystal-Eyes and Hotblade are Age 2 Monsters, which require 2 Tributes to be Normal Summoned from the Extra Deck. But how would an Age 1 Monster look? Well let's look at another "Initbeat" Monster...

 

 

Wait... Is Screamteam a NORMAL Monster? That's right! Just like monsters you summon from the Main Deck, Null Monsters are treated as Normal Monsters if they have no effects. As I stated earlier, Initbeat Screamteam is an Age 1 Monster, meaning it requires 1 tribute to Normal Summon. And finally, here are some Age 0 Null Monsters.

 

 

An "IceBurn" monster that I created. <<Note, this monster is SUPPOSED to be a Tuner, but I kinda forgot to add that>>

 

And finally...

 

And one last Null Monster, which is a bit more unorthodox, except this one is an Age 1 Monster.

 

So given all of these cards, what is everybody's opinion so far? I know the concept as a whole still needs work, and that's exactly why I'm posting it here. So does anybody have any suggestions? Feel free to ask any questions! :D
 

If you want to try these cards out, look up Null-Attribute Monsters on Duel Portal!

[VCR_CAT]

Honestly; it's kind of a neat idea and it's cool that you went through all that work; but this mechanic doesn't really interact with the rest of the game very well; breaks way too many set mechanics and rules (Monsters cannot have a level less than 0; monsters have to have an attribute, type, etc.); and completely breaks the game for a number of reasons.

 

The first main reason is that having your set of monsters only in the ED is really insane. We've talked about this in chats numerous times, that the ED is like Batman's utility belt; having the powerful techs on hand whenever you need them is a VERY powerful asset, and essentially expanding your starting hand's size to however many no-tribute Nulls you have in the ED completely and utterly changes the game. No longer is it about drawing and playing from your hand; all your monsters are in your ED, so why not just run a deck full of S/T's and floodgates?

 

The example cards you gave are also utterly busted. Clear Dragon turns your turn into a complete no-cost-required-AT-ALL two-tribute summon for a powerful monster. That's CRAZY; you don't use ANY cards and already you have a complete boss-level monster on the field. Haruka being in your ED is also completely busted; being a Santa Claws that you have on-hand at ALL TIMES is insane. Considering that this card type's mechanic can be summed up simply as "Tribute summoning except it's in your Extra Deck and can be used absolutely whenever" is not only an inherently busted mechanic, but it breaks way too much in the game.

[Mitchell Humphries]

Honestly; it's kind of a neat idea and it's cool that you went through all that work; but this mechanic doesn't really interact with the rest of the game very well; breaks way too many set mechanics and rules (Monsters cannot have a level less than 0; monsters have to have an attribute, type, etc.); and completely breaks the game for a number of reasons.

 

The first main reason is that having your set of monsters only in the ED is really insane. We've talked about this in chats numerous times, that the ED is like Batman's utility belt; having the powerful techs on hand whenever you need them is a VERY powerful asset, and essentially expanding your starting hand's size to however many no-tribute Nulls you have in the ED completely and utterly changes the game. No longer is it about drawing and playing from your hand; all your monsters are in your ED, so why not just run a deck full of S/T's and floodgates?

 

The example cards you gave are also utterly busted. Clear Dragon turns your turn into a complete no-cost-required-AT-ALL two-tribute summon for a powerful monster. That's CRAZY; you don't use ANY cards and already you have a complete boss-level monster on the field. Haruka being in your ED is also completely busted; being a Santa Claws that you have on-hand at ALL TIMES is insane. Considering that this card type's mechanic can be summed up simply as "Tribute summoning except it's in your Extra Deck and can be used absolutely whenever" is not only an inherently busted mechanic, but it breaks way too much in the game.

I'm just going to address the things I have time to address for now, but I'll get to everything.

 

1- Monsters having no level/type/attribute:

While it is true that there is no that lacks either a type or attribute, it's not true that there are monsters without levels- Xyz Monsters completely lack levels altogether, just like Null Monsters. The no Type/Attribute thing was honestly just for the sake of balancing- giving cards you can normal summon from the extra deck support is completely broken, and while I'll admit they're OP in the current state, my goal is to make them fair to play.

 

2- Decks of nothing but spells/traps:

Gotta be honest, that never occurred to me. To be fair, I've seen decks like that in real life, but I see your point. I'll figure something out- perhaps just making the minimum Age 1, that way you're still required to use Normal Deck materials? Null Monsters were created to support the Main Deck- not the other way around. So this is a fantastic point, and thank you for bringing it up.

 

3- Effects being busted:

I know. I keep nerfing/adjusting them literally daily. But I think the more I play them, the more I understand WHY they're busted.

 

3b- Specifically Crystal-Eyes being busted:

That being said, I think I worded Crystal-Eyes' effect poorly- Crystal Eyes can only act as ONE of TWO tributes for a tribute summon. He can't act as both tributes. IMHO, that's not broken, but again, more testing is needed. Perhaps paying life points or a discard?

 

3c- Haruka being busted:

I keep buffing her. As in I keep making it beneficial for the opponent to have her. I'm just going to remove the 500 Life Points thing.

I'll post more when I have time, but thank you very very much for your feedback! :D

[VCR_CAT]

The thing with Xyz monsters is that they have Ranks instead of Levels. And another issue is that even removing the Age 0 mosnters (which YES, they should NOT be there), the mechanic is still tribute summoning in the core and doesn't actually do anything new in the game, besides making your extra deck your hand. Haruka will always be busted because of its effect unless you make it absolutely and utterly STUPID for you to give it your opponent; until then it's a Santa Claws that can happen WHENEVER YOU WANT, regardless of what you have.

 

The thing is, this mechanic cannot be balanced beyond making the monsters almost useless, and then the problem lies in the design. The point of Extra Deck monsters is that they're more powerful than the maindeck monsters but require certain hoops to be jumped through to summon; you've basically taken the power of the Extra Deck and removed the hoops entirely. Lacking levels/attributes/types doesn't make the monsters worse; it makes them BETTER considering how many floodgates you can now run with no downsides, and the fact that there can be tuner nulls completely undermines the downside of being able to use them for ED summons. And by the way, monsters CANNOT be level or rank 0; this is a legitimate rule, and any existing Xyz or Synchro monsters that are level/rank 0 are always treated as having a certain level or rank.

 

There's no hoops to be jumped through with this mechanic, and it gives the player access to way too much at way too low of a cost with no special summoning mechanic of its own. Honestly, I would go back to the drawing board entirely and think of something entirely different, because I can't see a way for this mechanic to be both balanced and usable.

[Trebuchet MS]

I thought when a monster completely lacks an attribute that most others would have, it would just be completely incompatible with any effects that interact with these parameters. Like how Xyz Monsters don't have Levels and thus are unaffected and unqualified for any Level-reliant effects, Null Monsters would hence be illegible for anything that checks Attributes (and always get blown up by Catastor) and exempt from Type-checking effects (and immune to Tribe-Infecting Virus and DNA Surgery)

[VCR_CAT]

But remember, that like how Xyz monsters are completely immune to cards like Gravity Bind and Level Limiter Area B, that there are going to be floodgate cards that Nulls are suddenly going to be able to run. Heck, it's suddenly a Clear World deck, and I know there are many other unknown attribute-focused cards; for instance the one that forces a player to control only 1 attribute or 1 type or something.

[TRUE RULER^(Imper.Di )]

For the Age 0's. you need a very immediate cost. Stat reduction and/or ending your turn. Assuming you don't make them all age 1. Also, as a measure to not just build your MD around your ED, you can add an upkeep at the end/start of the turn.

"While this card is face-up on the field, this card's effects cannot be negated. During each of your ...Phases: you can send x to the graveyard, if not, return this card to the ED/destroy/banish this card." You could also make them inaccessible by ss but who knows if that'd work really well? 

[Mitchell Humphries]

But remember, that like how Xyz monsters are completely immune to cards like Gravity Bind and Level Limiter Area B, that there are going to be floodgate cards that Nulls are suddenly going to be able to run. Heck, it's suddenly a Clear World deck, and I know there are many other unknown attribute-focused cards; for instance the one that forces a player to control only 1 attribute or 1 type or something.

Excellent point. Perhaps the solution is to just make them Null-Attribute AND Null-Type?

 

For the Age 0's. you need a very immediate cost. Stat reduction and/or ending your turn. Assuming you don't make them all age 1. Also, as a measure to not just build your MD around your ED, you can add an upkeep at the end/start of the turn.

"While this card is face-up on the field, this card's effects cannot be negated. During each of your ...Phases: you can send x to the graveyard, if not, return this card to the ED/destroy/banish this card." You could also make them inaccessible by ss but who knows if that'd work really well? 

Again, an excellent point. One idea I had is, to counter decks that would be *just* spells and traps, with a pure Null Monster Extra Deck is that Age 0 Null Monsters have the mandatory effect of locking the Spell/Trap Zone behind them? Still tinkering around with the concept.