[Card Discussion(s)] Equalizer Matrix, Imperative Reprisal

[VampireofDarkness]

I feel enough has been said to warrant the discussion of these 3. On my own warrant, I will say I have been rather disappointed that I feel these cards (In terms of Matrix and Maze) deserve the position they are at as they are now, replicating the best -1s in the game. I personally would rather rework them or not have them in instead of throwing them on the list, as I feel like the impact it could have on the community could be rather disappointing. Reprisal I will also mention in here because I feel it has some similar power level, although it understandingly hasn't been nearly run as much. However, I will leave these for the community to decide where they belong or what they need to warrant themselves. Last thing I will say is I encourage those who have an opinion or say to make such on here, and not on the Skype Chat. I feel for such discussions, especially since the opinions have variated from one person to the other, shouldn't be kept from the people who aren't in such

[Spoiler Equalizer Matrix]

[/spoiler]

[Spoiler Imperative Reprisal]

[/spoiler]

[lecc_XD]

Matrix:
The "loose all level/ranks" is just crazy, also it can negates effects and changes battle position, does too much and is even better than Book of Moon, is like Fiendish Chain + BoM fused and throwed there

Maze:
Is a Compulsory but worse, cause compulsory let you Normal Summon again and triggers some effects, this card not, also it returns to the deck, so that mean if i wanna get it back w/o suffering the Summon Restriction, i have to search/draw for it again and i cant access to it during the same turn, going into the risk of getting it in my opponent's StandBy and being useless

Imperative:
Well, it does negate summons freely not like all the cards we know already (solemn family) but it doesnt negate the effect of the monster that was summoned, just destroy it. Is like the Traptrix trap hole but not chaineable and dont negate, just destroy

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Matrix: This simply does too much. The fact that it does 2 different effects, as well as removing level/rank is just stupid. This card is an effective answer to nesrly every monster in the game

Maze: Easily the strongest trap on DP. It is incredible removal, about on-par with ring of destruction. I personally feel it would be better balanced if it worked like a single-target turnover tactics. (Summon still happens next turn, but the added normal summon restriction is just dumb tbh). In any case, it should be at 1.

Imperative: I really don't like this. Tne fact that it can be played around is nice, but i t hink it is too good at 3. Semi'd is someyhing i am comfortable with.

[VampireofDarkness]

Matrix: This simply does too much. The fact that it does 2 different effects, as well as removing level/rank is just stupid. This card is an effective answer to nesrly every monster in the game

Maze: Easily the strongest trap on DP. It is incredible removal, about on-par with ring of destruction. I personally feel it would be better balanced if it worked like a single-target turnover tactics. (Summon still happens next turn, but the added normal summon restriction is just dumb tbh). In any case, it should be at 1.

Imperative: I really don't like this. Tne fact that it can be played around is nice, but i t hink it is too good at 3. Semi'd is someyhing i am comfortable with.

It has been discussed that customs shouldn't be limited. Remember, we have the right to reject such cards into the pool and thus it's inexcusable to leave such cards as is. A majority would rather not have such powerful cards rule a format like such. By the majority's say, I wish to discuss them on their own and/or how to change them to be safe at 3.

[VCR_CAT]

Well, I'm going to start bottom-to-top for ideas on how to make these more balanced.

Imperative Reprisal confuses on what it's trying to do. At first I thought it was some sort pre-emptive Solemn Warning, but later on it becomes basically the perfect side-deck card against Tellars and Seraphs. The card's effect is just very open-ended on what it does and it needs a lot more focus. It should EITHER:
- negate an effect that would Special Summon
- OR negate a chain of Special Summoned Monster Effects
Having a Warning and Trap-Shek is just too much for the card's uses, and with no additional costs or situations to make its use more strategic, it just ends up being like Solemn Judgment Lite. In all honesty, it's the lack of direction/focus that makes this card a little too good; it just needs to be narrowed down.

Temporal Maze is stupid. It has a creative effect, but it's a stupid card. It's a one-card removal for any and all situations during one turn, and then prevents your opponent from Normal Summoning on their next turn. If its effect was like a Spin-version of Junk Archer alone, then yes sure that would be fine. But costing a player their Normal Summon if they want the monster back is stupid; it's essentially WAY BETTER than Compulse. To me, it should instead be banishing a face-up monster (any monster! Add some versatility to make the new effect kinda cool!) and then RETURNING it during the end-phase. It's still a good card in that case and can present some interesting strategies; but even in that case it still ends up being like Compulse; just different. Overall it needs work.

In a needless argument I already told Cirrus that monsters CANNOT have a level/rank below 0. It's in the rules, and existing level/rank 0 monsters are treated as having a level/rank anyways; so this is going to be changed to "Cannot be used a material for a Synchro/Xyz Summon" instead.But as others have said and I how I still stand on the card is that it does too freaking much. I understand the creator likes control strategies and believes them to be good for the game, but having universal shut-down cards is not very good for the game, and having cards that are good in every situation aren't much better. It takes away so much strategy to just have a universal-use card, and removes a lot of creativity in card combos and existing strategies. Having universal good-in-every-situation cards are bad, and honestly this thing needs to be changed or removed entirely.

I will also agree heavily with what was said about the skype chat. Don't go behind someone's back if you think a card's broken; post it in their threads and give them some constructive criticism (That's what they're there for!!!) or tell them yourself. It's not conducive for a good pool and community if we just have these little exclusive chats where information others should know or be a part of is presented.

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

Huh, so Equalizer is Chalice. Until now, I thought it was basically BoM at 96% power, but that definitely pushes this card as really powerful. The Attack-position-only thing does give the opponent a bit of counterplay, but they either 1: know you have this, 2: think you have this, play monsters in Defense, and save you lots of Life Points, 3: play in Attack and get shot down, or 4: DP changes to where everyone plays Superheavy Samurais and never care ever. Book of Moon is an incredibly good card, and this is practically better in that it doubles as a Forbidden Chalice-ish card. You can say that BoM can be played before an effect is activated so that your opponent won't be able to activate an effect anyways, but this also works on effects that activate on-Summon. Also, by Mooning a monster as opposed to negating it, your opponent wouldn't have paid whatever cost for nothing. I'd say change it to "It cannot activate its effects this turn" so that it would in fact be a BoM at 96% power, but that goes against the creator's goal of this card as a competitor against the single most versatile card in the game.

 

Temporal Maze is pretty much completely better than Compulsory Evacuation Device in every way except on the rare occasion that you play CED on one of your own monsters, and right now CED has so much value that you're hardly likely to do that. I mean, there's chaining it to BRD/Exciton, but outside of that, you don't really do this often. Against Maindeck monsters, Temporal Maze is a +0 that can be transformed back into the -1 that is CED by forcing your opponent to re-Summon that monster instead of any of their other Normal Summonable monsters. Against ED monsters, they're the same thing. I feel like it's not an alternative to CED, it's just flat-out better except in oddball cases where the monster gains effects from being Special Summoned, but not Normal Summoned, or if field nukes become more common.

 

As for Imperative Reprisal, negating effects that SS > negating inherent SSes, which is why Reader's Block was apparently not terrible even though it was a backwards clone of Black Horn. This makes Reprisal a good card already, and then it's also [acronym='Please don't kill me, Toyo']Traptrix[/acronym] Trap Hole Nightmare. So, even when you somehow get around getting an ED monster out without using any effect to Special Summon (so, no things like Tour Guide, Altair, or Wolfbark), you can't use that monster's effect for a turn or else it dies anyway. A lot of ED monsters are going to be played for the sake of using their effects, like Castel. You can't expect to Summon Castel and then sit on it a turn without it dying; it's a huge target and most likely will die. Traptrix Trap Hole Nightmare isn't that bad of a card, and it's basically combined with something really decent already. Toyo says it's a better Solemn Warning, and I'm starting to feel very wary towards this card now. It kind of is, and it's free.

[Love of Ghibli]

Equalizer Matrix: I don't get it. Other than the whole loosing levels things, which I pretty sure was addressed in the cards original thread, its simple a way of trying to hinder a monster's play without technically removing the monster. Its a disruptor and I can personally respect the creators attempt to get people away from relying on trap cards to do all of the disrupting. If anything I would say that the card makes the whole level modulation thing another one of the effects. So for options and choosing 2 effects. 

Maze: Yeah if it got rid of that no Normal summon and set thing and I think its fine. 

Reprisal: Nothing is wrong with this card. Its hinders the whole Scepter, throne, throne or anything, Kage, kage play. Its like a better black horn of heaven and a worse warning. I like it the way it is I can't see the problem with it. 

[Cirrus]

As the cards' creator (and someone with an insignificant interest in DP's metagame nowadays) I feel like, after reading the grievances in this thread, that ABC's was probably the most astute... and as metagame on DP is generally better served by consensus rather than by dictatorial edict, as these cards are no doubt wont to do (this is generally the realm of what staples do, after all), I will offer some meager assistance in repairing the matter.

As such, the following fix will be implemented to Matrix; I gather that the big instantaneous Chalice (and thus immediate reaction ability) is what makes the card so egregious of an offender in many of your eyes, and thus will nerf that effect. The level loss effect has also been revised for a clearer and cleverer effect.
 

Equalizer Matrix
Quick-Play Spell
Target 1 face-up Attack Position monster. Until the end of this turn, that target cannot be Tributed or used as a Fusion, Synchro, or Xyz Material for a Summon. Choose 2 of these effects, then apply them in sequence after the current Chain resolves:
• Change that target to face-up Defense Position.
• Negate that target's effects until the end of this turn.
• Negate the next effect this turn that targets it.

Re: Maze, I agree with ABC's observations for the most part but I knew it was an overtuned prototype and I don't much have the desire to significantly fix it, as it's a CED stand-in in any case; removing the summon limitation clause is just fine, and the super early original version had no such clause, although I'm skeptical that it wouldn't just be better for everyone's sanity to add a CED instead of adding this card @ 1.

Re: Reprisal; the comparison to Reader's Block aside (not that Reader's Block is a particularly amazing card to sidedeck even in its current incarnation, just as Black Horn isn't), it's not Nightmare though. Sure, it destroys the monster, but in the Castel example you activate Castel's effect and it does the removal, and if they chain the Reprisal the only thing you lose is the Castel. I'd suggest reducing to Normal Trap but I'm highly doubtful of Toyo's statement that "it's a better warning" is at all accurate ... that's not how Reprisal works. It only has the ability to negate the effects of Summoner Monk et al., and ED monsters don't have their effects negated and are just blown up, which makes this card terrible against field nukes as well as bosses that don't activate their effect in a meaningful way - unlike Warning, which stops those cards dead in their tracks.

I have a pocket nerf for this card too, but I'll wait for community consensus on it before I release it. Probably putting it as a card that's more similar to regular BTH, even though it seems more boring as a result.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

Matrix still retains my main issue with it, being that the card simply has far too much versatility on what it can do. New wording is a bit prettier, but really doesn't solve anything in my eyes.

 

As for temporal matrix, it simply creates too much advantage, even when used against main deck monsters.

[spoiler=Proposition for Temporal Maze Replacement]

[/spoiler]

 

Reprisal's problem is not that it is "strictly better" than TTHN, it is the fact that it is simply too versatile in what it does. Negating a summon effect (let alone at SS3) is very strong, and the second effect of also being able to destroy special summoned monsters that use their effects give it a disgusting utility against most any decks. If you think that destruction that doesn't negate isn't good enough, I would like to introduce you to Yuki Usagi.

[Cirrus]

Note that Matrix's effects are applied after the current chain resolves, removing possibly one of the biggest pain points for it to be played around; it cannot be reactive any more and must be proactive. Thus I completely disagree.

Warportal is not that good of a card; although it is a decent card, it's much more suitable for an advantage-heavy metagame, which is not what I gather DP is supposed to be. Refer to my statement about just +1 CED if people hate Maze so much.

Yuki Usagi is incredibly versatile, a hand trap, a LIGHT, a Psychic level 3 Tuner, tributable from the field, et cetera ... it is disingenuous to suggest that Reprisal is somehow higher on the power budget list than Yuki Usagi as they're completely different cards. Of course it is utilitarian but I don't see it as being significantly better or worse than BTH, which was the original goal.

[(GigaDrillBreaker)]

You keep mentioning how it is a +1 CED. If we wanted more than 1 CED, we wouldn't have it limited. The banlist exists for a reason. Making a card because you don't like the number another is at is not how this is supposed to work.

[Cirrus]

Well, sure, but you don't have the context of the reason this card was made (during a time where TCG / OCG list preference was in flux, so after "TCG with more Traps added" was decided upon I made this to back up CED since OCG has triple CED). If you don't like it, motion to have it removed altogether, and not have it Limited, then. It's of no personal concern to me, I'm just pointing out that Limiting Maze with or without the summoning clause is almost identical just to having an extra CED.

[Self-Destruct Button]

If you're not attached to the card it would be easiest to just remove it, seeing how much discussion it brought up. CED is limited for a reason, and I don't think we need another one.

[lecc_XD]

Why just dont put the Duston typical eff on Matrix?
Cannot be Tributed or used as Material for a Synch, XYZ o Fusion Summon
Is what your want w/o the whole weird wording

[VCR_CAT]

If you're not attached to the card then why bother being so defensive about it?

And your new effect for Equalizer is WORSE than the one before. Before it only prevented Synchro/Xyz plays as well as some level-specific plays; now you cannot do ANYTHING with the card at all; and in a thread where everyone is saying it's busted I fail to see how this was the rational decision in balancing it.

[VampireofDarkness]

Well, it looks like a majority here wish to see the removal of Maze rather than its fix, so I'll take it out of the post now. Let's get discussin on Reprisal and Matrix! Thanks everybody whose kept their thoughts here. You're discussion is what keeps the community alive

[Cirrus]

ITT: how do chains work

why don't you think about how the change of the effects only taking place after the current chain resolves affects the rest of the card (mostly the negation part)? as for the level part, Duston'd via lecc's suggestion (dustons are indeed a thing).

re: Maze, I'm more disappointed in the analyses presented by a lot of these posts >_> some more than others. just because you say I am something doesn't mean I actually am! I am more bemused by the fact that you see the need to say so in the first place. Maze may be removed by poll or not - I don't play DP any more or participate significantly in these forums much, so come to a conclusion as a group! don't tell me to remove it or whatever as one person, or if you hate it remove it yourself from DP and someone else may decide to add it back and whatever else happens happens. if you don't like my carts (and I don't particularly enjoy how strong maze is either in this case) you don't have to feel obligated to use them~

in fact, you people should discuss whether you really want more traps or not (round x of metagame discussion?). traps make a more interesting and healthier format but aren't fun for everybody; keep in mind that the tcg format is manufactured trap-free-land by konami because tcg doesn't have a sweeper card and ocg does, and thus the inherent argument that CED & co are somehow extremely overpowered doesn't really apply (they're just good cards). however, keep in mind that I also don't really care if air force & mirror force are both at 3 and think they'd just present an interesting deckbuilding/play situation even though the redundancy is painful.

[VCR_CAT]

As I said before (besides the Infernoid thing); level 0 monsters break pre-existing game-mechanics, that's the primary reason why it does not work; but I explain that above so I won't be redundant here.

Yet all of this arguing doesn't matter since you just said you don't play DP anymore so I'm guessing these cards shouldn't be a part of the tournament card pool? And then if that's the case, this thread shouldn't be a thing and all of this arguing has ultimately been a waste of time. I, personally, don't see why the cards need to be removed from DP entirely if it's not a part of the meta game; there's SO MANY overpowered cards hidden deep in that program's bowels that I know none of us have any intention of resurfacing and removing, so removing the cards themselves entirely from DP won't accomplish much.

[VampireofDarkness]

As I said before (besides the Infernoid thing); level 0 monsters break pre-existing game-mechanics, that's the primary reason why it does not work; but I explain that above so I won't be redundant here.

Yet all of this arguing doesn't matter since you just said you don't play DP anymore so I'm guessing these cards shouldn't be a part of the tournament card pool? And then if that's the case, this thread shouldn't be a thing and all of this arguing has ultimately been a waste of time. I, personally, don't see why the cards need to be removed from DP entirely if it's not a part of the meta game; there's SO MANY overpowered cards hidden deep in that program's bowels that I know none of us have any intention of resurfacing and removing, so removing the cards themselves entirely from DP won't accomplish much.

This IS for metagame stuff. What made you think otherwise?

[AGATHODAIMON BANGTAIL COW]

Ooook, so I forgot that Reprisal isn't exactly TTN (again, really, again), which means Castel is not going to get stopped the turn it's played, though #101 and DRXD are still saddened by this. But anyways, I did mention "SSes via effect > inherent SSes." Basically, any Black Horn counterpart is going to end up better than Black Horn, and this is because a lot of methods to set up for the Extra Deck play need to Special Summon in order to keep up in speed. There are some good ways to set up for an ED play while dodging this/Reader's Block entirely, such as Cydra and Cydra-likes such as Assault Halberd and Solar Champion, or if you get extra Normal Summons and do something such as the Pollux->Kaus->Whatever R4/5 play. And then, there are Fusions and other "Summon boss via effects" (cards such as A Deal with Dark Ruler or whatever that Summons Berserk Dragon seem somewhat popular among new players at times) which Black Horn can't touch, but any backwards version of it can.

 

In a way, Black Horn is better than Solemn Warning. You can use it against whatever Synchro or Xyz and off it without paying 2k of your own Life Points for the same result as Warning a lot of the time. The reason it's worse than Solemn Warning is the fact that it's not as playable as Warning is since Warning stops both kinds of Special Summons. In a lot of cases, you may be using both to get to a certain Extra Deck monster, but Warning is usable against both, so you can use it to stop the combo earlier than you could with Black Horn (for example, your opponent NSes Tour Guide and is very likely going to Summon Scarm or something else that will end up being beneficial. Black Horn will stop the incoming Alucard/whatever, but Warning stops Scarm from hitting the Grave). The problem with this might be that it's less situational than the ilk of Black Horn/Reader's Block due to the other effect allowing this to freely kill a Special Summoned monster. It won't be as good as Trap Hole Nightmare, but it's a somewhat powerful effect attached to a card that is already pretty decent.

 

 

So, the whole nerf on Matrix made it even better! I actually had to re-read some posts to even notice that the effects resolve after the chain and realize that it wasn't "nerfed" into something better. Now it feels like a worse Book of Moon in almost every way, except for a certain aspect that's pretty relevant: monsters that aren't Summoned this turn (as well as a slight niche against Tribute Summon-based Decks and Nephe Doll Fusion). If you BoM a monster that's been here for a while, your opponent can simply Flip Summon it and continue on with their day. This stops the monster from using its effect for the rest of the turn and thus can't ignored by Flip Summons. As for this, they can change the monster back to Attack; it won't let them use the effect, but they can still attack. You may or may not be able to get away with buffing the "change to Defense" effect so that the monster can't change back to Attack that turn. Also, I'm kind-of saddened that its last effect doesn't see any play (I could be wrong, but has anyone gotten any use out of the third effect yet?). I kinda-wanna see all of its effects as being useful to encourage the player to decide which two of the three to pick, but that also buffs the card in general and might make it stop being an alternative to BoM and just being better again.

 

I don't really get the hostility here. These were supposed to be an alternative of certain staple cards, but I felt like they simply were slightly better. Matrix was BoM, Maze was CED, and Reprisal is BTH (btw, Reprisal doesn't really feel like it overpowers BTH very much, as BTH can stop certain Normal Summons. But this depends on Decks having high-value monsters that can be BTH'd, such as how Fire Fists have Bear or Bujins have Yamato) Having new Traps to keep the game in check is a nice thing since we kinda-sorta don't have enough to deal with rampant wreck-stuff Decks, but as I mentioned in this paragraph, they just felt like they were better than the preexisting staples. And since BoM, CED, and BTH are all really powerful, that would imply that these would be over that power.

[Cirrus]

I don't really get the hostility here. These were supposed to be an alternative of certain staple cards, but I felt like they simply were slightly better. Matrix was BoM, Maze was CED, and Reprisal is BTH (btw, Reprisal doesn't really feel like it overpowers BTH very much, as BTH can stop certain Normal Summons. But this depends on Decks having high-value monsters that can be BTH'd, such as how Fire Fists have Bear or Bujins have Yamato) Having new Traps to keep the game in check is a nice thing since we kinda-sorta don't have enough to deal with rampant wreck-stuff Decks, but as I mentioned in this paragraph, they just felt like they were better than the preexisting staples. And since BoM, CED, and BTH are all really powerful, that would imply that these would be over that power.

ITP: ABC gets design intent and thus subsequent nerf intent. I don't actually think Reprisal needs nerfing because of what is said here; just a semilimit if really necessary. But I can bring in the nerfbat if extremely desired.

A little revision to Matrix also, making the third effect slightly more playable:
 

Equalizer Matrix
Quick-Play Spell
Target 1 face-up Attack Position monster. Until the end of this turn, that target cannot be Tributed or used as a Fusion, Synchro, or Xyz Material for a Summon. Choose 2 of these effects, then apply them in sequence after the current Chain resolves:
• Change that target to face-up Defense Position.
• Negate that target's effects until the end of this turn.
• The next time this turn that target would be removed from the field, prevent it.

[VCR_CAT]

Also, I should apologize; but that post I did earlier was during a jet-lagged morning. So I was confused on some stuff and not thinking 100% clearly.

 

Looking over Reprisal again, it doesn't seem too bad; but I would still appreciate if the effect was focused in a bit more, but as it is it isn't TERRIBLY bad; but a bit more focus could tone it into something really cool. I kinda like the idea of a more generic Transmigration that's not as powerful.

As for the revision; the third effect definitely looks a lot more usable than the old version. For the first effect, maybe change it to just "Cannot be used as a Material for a Special Summon" or whatever. Tribute summons are cool when they pop up. Or specify that it can't be tributed for card effects like Level Eater? Overall I like the new third effect more as it does offer something you can do to an opponent's monster that can prevent some plays that force your opponent to rethink how they would use the card. Problem is, the third effect is something I don't think anyone would ever use against an opponent's monster unless it was very situational. Right now, the card's effects that would be used against the opponent would pretty much ONLY be the BTS and position-change effects. To retool the incredible versatility a little, maybe make the three effects a little more of decision rather than the first two effects being the go-to against almost all opponent's plays? I still feel that this card fills too many niches for one thing, though, and I would much rather see its uses changed from a swiss-army-knife to something a lot more focused.

 

[Cirrus]

Book of Moon is a swiss army knife, and so is BTH. If you want to design something more focused, be my guest ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Of course 1 & 2 are the go-to effects for opponent's monsters, but Book of Moon only ever did one thing to an opponent's monster anyway.

[VCR_CAT]

Who said I was a big fan of Book of Moon? IIRC, a general idea is "Just because Konami makes it broken, doesn't mean you should". I'm just offering ideas to make the card's usage more varied and interesting in a duel beyond bricking a monster when it's summoned or making your own monster protected.

[Cirrus]

But I'm a big fan and I never thought that Book of Moon was of worth classifying as a broken card ... you see where our philosophies diverge. See ABC's final paragraph in his last post. Matrix is plenty interesting already; generally the more inflexible a card is, the more false choice you have.