Maeriberii Haan Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Related to my recent status. Though, to elaborate on the other point, some of the sticki'd guides and tutorials are pretty outdated, and need a rewrite, while the card creation guide in CC is, to be honest, unreadable (yes, it's supposed to be my job, but I'm too busy atm). I remember Darkplant posting here asking someone to rewrite his guides, but not much had happened after that. Sooo, yeah, I think I want to see whether there's anyone willing enough to volunteer here for this job. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanael D. Striker Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Do I have to do your job for you? :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet MS Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Won't mind at least doing the card design guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Won't mind at least doing the card design guide. Actually, I'd advise against making one of these. Every attempt I've seen, even a personal attempt I never posted, falls short. It's too big an area to cover, and a guide will only really manage to cover bare bones. There is room for some opinions in design, as well, so there's no way to cover those in a guide. It's just like any other sort of design; Game, graphic, etc. So, really, just explaining WHAT card design means should be all the 'guide' is... and that's, like, 2-3 sentences. If anything, should just be at the top of CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 List of things that needs to be rewritten/made: -Darkplant's Noob tutorial (shouldn't need much updating tbh, just need to put it in a better location) -A ''how to YCM'' general guide (Fusing several of the guides in the Tutorial/Q&A section into one for easier reading) -Darkplant's deckbuilding guide in TCG (his main points still stands, but it really needs updating) -Card Creation guide (Need a total rework. No new members will ever read a 8k word guide with poor formatting) I think there's some others, but these should be the major ones. I think the Card Creation guide should only cover general things and maybe some technical ones, with some additional tips. Shouldn't be too much, otherwise the new members would be too overwhelmed/railroaded, but it needs to have enough to make them start somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet MS Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 So, what are the general card design things that, at the very least, need to be touched on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Tutorials (and Q&A) falls under my assignment, so I should have a look at things. But keep in mind that having too many stickies will make Q&A look ugly as hell. Just keep in mind that it's a lot of work to take out the section itself; especially given it's been around since the beginning. At the most, I can just turn it into an Archive forums of sorts (and disable post privileges in there). Then again, if you had concerns about its existence, then why didn't you PM me about this? (Question at Nai) ---- As for the card creation thing, I tried working with you on this, but you don't mention anything in PM discussions (and yeah, I know you have work and other things). Just be glad it isn't the 17-page thing that Aix had in the past (still 8-9 pages, but yeah). Need to tone it down a bit (and obvious rewording, since some things are C/P from the source ones). Or for the short term, that can be an Advanced Cardmaking guide, and we write a new beginner one. (Casual's one is fine) For Advanced, I'm assuming you mean the one that I wrote; since you know full well that Toyo also has a guide of her own (although partly behaviorial and partly cardmaking). So, what are the general card design things that, at the very least, need to be touched on? Talk about the usual things about not overpowering your cards (i.e. don't make a monster with absurdly high stats + OPed effects) and some flavor notes on designs for Archetypes and things. Also discuss a bit about factoring its impact with other cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 As for why I didn't PM you, I want to see other's opinion regarding this. Even if you're the one at it, the section's too dead and no one really bothered to go there anymore. Night/evilfusion can take out the section when necessary. As for the many stickies, hence why I said that we need a ''How to YCM guide'', fusing several stickies into one while making the formatting readable and easily accessible enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Darkplant's guide should be rewritten a bit, yes, but basically a good start to how to keep your YCM life happy and healthy. A lot of stuff is still relevant, but should reflect current times [recall that Darkplant/Kenta uses staff members from the older generation of YCM]. The Deck building guides can be left to the TCG vets (i.e. Black, evilfusion and whoever else frequents the section now). --- The general YCM guide can just be a single thread, and subsequent ones can be made on following posts. One of the main things is the card posting guide [because newbies still use attachments, even after the multiple reminders telling them not to do it and how to post properly]. The image tutorial in there can stay, or just merge it with the cardmaking guide in that one section. Covers a few more places that aren't in the original. --- Again, getting rid of the section entirely is close to impossible; but decommissioning it is something that falls within reason. If anything, convert the older section into an Archive of sorts (because I'm not combing 77 pages of threads, especially when a few are archived). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 If all else fail just hide the section or something. But Night should have the ability to remove it/merge it with QA. Image tutorial has been covered in the current CC guide, so once that's been rewritten, it can safely be removed. And yes, that is what I mean by the ''How to YCM guide''. Basically, for the rewrites, the reason I'm making this thread is to find volunteers. I know people that can make these guides, but the problem is, I don't know whether they want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Hiding the section is within my powers, so can be arranged. Although I can just leave it as is (and lock post privileges), since there are some other threads that are useful at times. But yeah, it's been dead lately. --- I don't mind rewriting the Noob Tutorial; but that'll have to wait until after May 14th when I can have undivided time to write it properly. Should carry the same content, but more/less reflective of the current times. Anything related to the meta might be left out though (like that test he made). --- Image stuff can just be added to the current CC thing. (I could add it to the Casual guide also). Once things are added, I'll just unsticky the thread. --- That in mind, that Q&A thing Aix made needs a rewrite also; since some of the info in there is now false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanael D. Striker Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Guys, learn to talk about the details before bringing this stuff out to light. All you are doing is fighting over details for the enjoyment of us members, and that isn't professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Current CC thing is a mess. I'll leave Gadjiltron to finish the revamped, more compact and slim guide before doing anything regarding it. I'll probably talk to him on this later. But yeah. If there's any other stuff that needs to be updated, please tell it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Guys, learn to talk about the details before bringing this stuff out to light. All you are doing is fighting over details for the enjoyment of us members, and that isn't professional. Just keep in mind that Nai made this in response to that status of his regarding the matter. I didn't see this until I came on a hour or so ago. I even asked why he didn't bring this to my attention beforehand, or with the other staff members if it came to that. He already explained why, but agreed that this should've been discussed first. Since it came to this, how many of you actually want the section to be decommissioned? --- Just as a sidenote, I already PMed Gadjiltron about the notes regarding the design tutorial (in Advanced). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Guys, learn to talk about the details before bringing this stuff out to light. All you are doing is fighting over details for the enjoyment of us members, and that isn't professional. This is not fighting, and this is not something that is meant to be solid from the very beginning, otherwise this is going to be posted in News. As you can see, this is a suggestion, posted in the news/suggestion thread. And we are here to discuss the entire proposal. What do you really see from this that is unprofessional? Mods are not gods, and rather than forcing changes to your throats, I'm on the opinion that it's better to get more inputs regarding this. Black mentioning that we probably could do without the CC guide, Gadjiltron wanting to volunteer in making the new guide, Sakura talking about the details of this, this is what the discussion is all about. I might've talked with a wrong tone in this thread so far, but I was busy watching a boxing match in the meantime so my focus is kinda divided. Also, rather than just watching us for your own amusement, can you at least give us an input or lend us a hand regarding this? From the looks of it, you seems to have a brilliant idea, and you acts like you can do this job well. So yeah, if you can help, if you have any actual points to say, if you have any objections, then say it. Otherwise keep your amusement to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Happy to work on the deckbuilding guide with anyone else who wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
宇佐見 蓮子@C94 Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 I somewhat agree with this, and I don't really see what all the argument is about. There honestly just needs to be 1 How to YCM guide (Which the Noob tutorial does well enough). I don't think that particular guide needs a complete rewrite, or even "making it up to date." As far as I can tell, a lot of the points touched upon in that guide is still very much relevant, but above all else, it is pretty much the only guide on YCM that isn't a complete and utter chore to read through. And I'm sorry Sakura, but I don't trust in you to rewrite Darkplant's guide. A comprehensive, non-boring guide for every section that needs it would be ideal. Currently CC has two guides. Mine, which is basically Darkplant's noob tutorial but localized to CC, and the currently messy and unreadable general CC guide. And I just wanna ask, really. What are you trying to make in CC? A card design guide? You can really only put a few cliff and footnotes on something like that, basically some do's and dont's. OCG and PSCT thread can be merged to the finished product, just to make it less cluttered, and so can the rules, under a "CC Rules and Helpful Guides" megathread. All in contained spoilers, of course. Also, I can help for making the guides a lot less, well, unfriendly to the new members. Guides should be easy to read and understand, not an overbearing essay. Again, refer to the Noob Tutorial. (Or maybe even mine, despite how much of a blatant ripoff it is) I'll write more once i get on a device that isn't portable, but yeah. Just as a final footnote though, CC really has too many guides. Keeping it bareboned and basic makes it easier to digest for newer members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Happy to work on the deckbuilding guide with anyone else who wishes. You can design a deck guide in TCG on your own if that's what you'd like. Same goes for the members who frequent the Other TCG areas, if guides for building Decks there are needed. As for the CC guide, it's supposed to explain what are some general things to consider (stat/effect-wise), how to consider if your card is overpowered or not and some footnotes regarding Archetype designs and stuff. Also has some brief notes on OCG, and why it's important. (I know you have some misgivings about forcing people to write their effects properly, but it's needed because of how the wording is set up) Some things will activate differently than they would've under 5Ds-era OCG and earlier. That's a hard thing for new members to get, but that's why Zazu made that help clinic. All you should know is just make sure we understand how your card is intended to work; and we can help fix the grammar later on. Editing the current a bit to cut down on the clutter, and make it easier to read. Sections are in spoilers, so just read what you need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Max Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 All the CC Guide needs is things like Tips to balance cards as such. If a monster has say 2300ATK and is a Level 4, explain about giving it a slight negative effect. If the Guide is too large: a) People will not read it. I for 1 do not like Huge Guides. I like it to be in digestible portions. Covering the basics with some more advanced tips and tricks from the Veterans will really make it feel more like a relaxing guide to read rather then YOU FOLLOW THIS OR WE COME DOWN ON YOU! RAWR! b) Encourage members to actually post in threads with decent cards. This is more of a personal thing but it annoys me when members do some (in my opinion) fantastic Card Designs but they are left to languish while the members with Broken Card Designs get all the posts and attention. Try to emphasise in the Guide that Good Card Design also has as much weight as the shit ones. Just my 20 Pence. I just don't want CC to become Drill Sergenty if you get what I mean. We are all here to have fun, not to be crushed by a Wall of a Guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Flyer - Sakura Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Ideally, that's what we're going for. Again, we are working on reducing the size of said guide so it's easier to read. Archetype/Flavor is probably the larger chunk of the guide, but they should be broken in 1-2 sentence fragments so easier on the eyes to read. But indeed, all cards are equal in terms of design. Good cards need reviews also; just as much as any bad ones. (That's also why CC has some incentive stuff going on) There is some stuff regarding base stats, and how to counterbalance monsters with rather high stats for their Level/Rank. -- Then again, Toyo's guide is rather large itself (even if it is C/P from Darkplant's one). -- With that being said, besides the guides in CC (and Darkplant's one), are there any other guides around YCM that need to be rewritten? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 The current CC guide will probably be unstickied soon while people are finishing the new guide. Though, it definitely should be more of a basic guidelines (something common sense-ish that needs to be mentioned) and tips that can help in designing cards. Aix's old guide contains tips on getting card ideas, while .Saber's has guidelines on things that should be approached carefully. The ''guide'', as whatever it would be called, should be informational, but not in a ''Drill Sergeant-y'' way, as J-Max said. It should not be ''How to design good card'', as good card is subjective as hell, and should be more ''Here's some tips to help you in making a card''. As for other guides, I don't think there's others at the moment. There's the editing guide in CW, but I don't think it's really in the need of much updating at the moment. I'll look more to see if anything else needs to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Okay as I mentioned in the original status... "Pin the noob guide to Questions and Help Make a new FAQ and include things that are important in the Tutorial section. Most of it is simple enough to write into a few lines. FAQ should be locked to begin with, seems weird it's not" Though yeah just a separate thread for all the important stuff from Tutorial works. Instead of remaking FAQ In any case. Dropping in mostly to say if there's anything I can help with re-writing/writing let me know. Not sure what help I'll be but if you need it I'll be around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet MS Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 On the other hand, I've been working with Sakura to refine the existing, stickied, Combined CC Guide. Feels a lot neater to edit what's there rather than create a new thread completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted May 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Either works, yeah. Once you two are done though, please send it to me first for copyediting. Also, if possible, keep it under 1500 words. As for Cowcow, how does compiling the more important, smaller site-related guides in Tutorials into a single thread/merge it with Aix's FAQ thread sounds to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanael D. Striker Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Hmm, I've been thinking. A FAQ section in the card guide may be useful. Something like "what effects can a Synchro monster have and still be balanced?" and something about the importance of matching effects to Level/Rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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