Competitive Pokemon Discussion

[Flame Dragon]

So, with Nintendo pushing the competitive side of Pokemon hard and with tournaments kicking up (the 2015 International Challenge has just kicked off) I figure its worth trying to recreate a competitive thread for the Pokemon.

So, come and talk pokemon sets and battle strategy. Smogon and Nintendo formats as well as the changes Smogon is talking about (Aegis is up for a vote to return to OU). You can also talk about what Pokemon you want to see get a Mega or new moves or move set changes for pokemon. If its competitive minded, its welcome here.

Since I'm making the thread, I'll kick us off. I'm looking to breed an Arcanine and I'm not sure which is the better set on average, the wall set or the attacking one. On one hand I really like Arcanine's offensive move pool and want to take advantage of it, but I REALLY don't like how fast it ends up killing itself since Flare Blitz/Wild Charge + Life Orb makes it VERY short for this world. ATM I feel like

Impish Nature
EVs: 248 HP, 252 DEF, 8 ATK
Morning Sun, Will-O-Wisp, Flare Blitz, Extreme Speed

Is the better set, but I'm willing to be proven wrong.

[.Rai]

Got interested in competitive battling incredibly recently actually, after a reinvigorated interest in Pokémon. Caught wind of the GBA channel on YouTube which is a super interesting concept for a tournament. I'd love to hold a draft tournament on YCM.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

In terms of Arcanine, I generally use a more offensive set (the one that uses Life Orb and stuff); but yeah recoil from moves + Life Orb will end it quickly.

Personally speaking, it depends on what your other teammates run + what you need.

 

If you have a healer/some way to restore HP, then go all out.

Otherwise, if you need to wall, then just use a bulkier one.

 

So yeah, my set is this.

Adamant / 252 ATK / 252 SPD / 6 HP

- Close Combat

- Flare Blitz

- Wild Charge

- Crunch

 

Ability is Intimidate though.

 

For the most part, I use him to run over threats my other 'mons can't.

In essence, more of Doubles stuff; but it's capable of doing singles.

 

----

Then again, I don't play Smogon/online often, so...

Although I more/less need it to beat the Battle Maison, since they more/less fight on Smogon-levels anyway.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

*places Super Showdown Society flag into the ground*

Anyway, as I've stated before I generally don't competitive Pokemon on the actual games. Never can focus enough to make a team and I like trying out a lot of things so I Showdown.

 

However they idea is kinda the same anyway so figure I could weigh in.

 

With Arcanine I actually prefer more offensive, with Flare Blitz, Close Combat, Extreme Speed, but also with Morning Sun just in case I gotta snag a quick heal. Mostly because I don't see too many instances when I need Wild Charge and it's basically the main "other move" Arcanine uses.

 

 

And now for some PU representation.

My good friend, Maractus. This lil guy got a big boon in the fact that PU is a thing. Cause it wasn't able to do much but set Spikes elsewhere.

 

I tend to use two sets generally. Both are somewhat Utility. One is Life Orb with Leech Seed, Sucker Punch, Giga Drain, HP Fire. It relies a lot on predictions but it's pretty rewarding when it gets a solid hit on things.

The other, and probably better, is Assault Vest with Sucker Punch, Knock Off, Giga Drain, HP Fire. It can take hits fairly well and get rid of items or finish weakened enemies off.

It's abilities are great; healing or SpAtk boosts from water attacks is very nice and both could come in handy.

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

I think I only use Wild Charge on Arcanine for the purpose of killing any Water types that even bother to switch in.

But yeah, Extreme Speed is still better; considering that base 95 speed isn't really quick compared to a lot of other things.

 

It'll also cut down on the amount of recoil moves that it'll have to take, so helps a lot.

 

----

In any case, I guess I'll post the general set I use for my Eons.

 

Latios is more of a special sweeper, so Timid and full EVs in his SpAtk and Spd, with some HP investment.

 

Timid nature / 252 SPATK / 252 SPD / 6 HP (or SP_DEF if his HP IV ends in 9).

- Draco Meteor (break things that aren't Fairies)

- Surf (sweep move and other things)

- Psyshock (hits Blissey and other special walls)

- Roost (restore HP)

 

In-game, I use the Soul Dew.

For other reasons (including VGC/Battle facilities in XY/ORAS), the Life Orb.

 

----

I know Latias is more defensive, but lately using this.

- Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse

- Calm Mind

- Roost

- Psyshock

 

Same spread as her bro (and nature).

If I have time to set up Calm Minds, then great.

 

That being said, if Calm Mind's being used; get rid of Draco Meteor and use Dragon Pulse instead. It's a lot weaker, but at least it doesn't lower my power after usage.

Otherwise, I vary the move that would normally be occupied by Calm Mind.

 

TBH, not sure on what the proper move would be here.

 

Item-wise, probably Leftovers or something.

 

----

I have considered using her Mega form, but don't have any with suitable natures (should be Bold).

This might be since I generally get mine to be a quick special attack 'mon.

 

Actually, I have tried her Mega form using a Timid nature; but lack of bulk does hurt at times; although survives 1-2 more hits than regular one.

[DL]

Arcanine is a true monster. I put him with Adamant, life orb, flare blitz, wild charge, extremespeed and close combat. Close combat kills rocks and wild charge takes care of waters.

 

Crunch is also viable but not as good, imo.

 

He dies fast, but he is destruction incarnate.

 

 

Also if we get this big enough we can even get small tourneys going. I'd be down for that.

[Darj]

Maybe this should be pinned because we had a thread like this already (although it didn't flourish), and it looks like Pokemon is a topic that is bound to be brought back every now and then anyway.
 
I will quote what I wrote in the previous thread for my introduction:

I am not quite the competitive battler, but I understand the theory (I know about EVs, tiers, concepts like "sweeper", etc.), play against friends with EV trained Pokemon, and occasionally check the Smogon forums or watch Showdown to stay up to date.

 
On topic, I didn't check Smogon or Showdown for a while and it took me by surprise when I went and saw Aegislash was under suspect tests. From the random replays I have watched in Showdown plus the comments on the thread, it looks like a bad idea to bring it back and that it would do more harm than good.
 
To bring something else to discussion, and this is more of Theorymon territory, but I have been wondering for a while how good would have been Aggron as a tank if it was pure-Steel. And I mean regular Aggron, not the mega, because it would be able to hold items such as Leftovers, and wouldn't take the Mega slot.

Or better yet, an alternate King's Rock evolution for Lairon that gives it access to moves such as Slack Off/Recover or even King's Shield.

[Flame Dragon]

Got interested in competitive battling incredibly recently actually, after a reinvigorated interest in Pokémon. Caught wind of the GBA channel on YouTube which is a super interesting concept for a tournament. I'd love to hold a draft tournament on YCM.

 

Draft Tournament? See, my assumption of this would be everyone builds their team by picking 1 pokemon at a time and "passing" a handful of others to someone else. Not sure if thats even remotely close though.

 

With Arcanine I actually prefer more offensive, with Flare Blitz, Close Combat, Extreme Speed, but also with Morning Sun just in case I gotta snag a quick heal. Mostly because I don't see too many instances when I need Wild Charge and it's basically the main "other move" Arcanine uses.

 
Morning Sun would be super helpful on that build but losing the added coverage from Wild Charge is a lose.

 

Arcanine is a true monster. I put him with Adamant, life orb, flare blitz, wild charge, extremespeed and close combat. Close combat kills rocks and wild charge takes care of waters.
 
Crunch is also viable but not as good, imo.
 
He dies fast, but he is destruction incarnate.
 
 
Also if we get this big enough we can even get small tourneys going. I'd be down for that.

Thats another issue I have, the nature. I feel without Jolly too many things can outrun him and without Adamant he just doesn't hit hard enough. Honestly, the more I've thought about it the more I'd prefer Emboar for this kind of thing since he has a much higher attack stat and would always want to use Adamant since his speed is so low to begin with.

That would be cool.
 

Maybe this should be pinned because we had a thread like this already (although it didn't flourish), and it looks like Pokemon is a topic that is bound to be brought back every now and then anyway.
 
I will quote what I wrote in the previous thread for my introduction:
 
On topic, I didn't check Smogon or Showdown for a while and it took me by surprise when I went and saw Aegislash was under suspect tests. From the random replays I have watched in Showdown plus the comments on the thread, it looks like a bad idea to bring it back and that it would do more harm than good.
 
To bring something else to discussion, and this is more of Theorymon territory, but I have been wondering for a while how good would have been Aggron as a tank if it was pure-Steel. And I mean regular Aggron, not the mega, because it would be able to hold items such as Leftovers, and wouldn't take the Mega slot.
Or better yet, an alternate King's Rock evolution for Lairon that gives it access to moves such as Slack Off/Recover or even King's Shield.

I know we've had a few threads like this over the years. I hoping that the thread can stay active on its own to not need being pinned. If it needs to be revived at some point in the future I can now do so since finding it will be a lot easier.

Yea, I love Aegis, but I don't think him coming back would be good.

If normal Aggron started as pure Steel people would likely just use that over the Mega. As you said getting Leftovers and not taking the Mega slot more than makes up for the 100 BST lose.

[Agro]

Got interested in competitive battling incredibly recently actually, after a reinvigorated interest in Pokémon. Caught wind of the GBA channel on YouTube which is a super interesting concept for a tournament. I'd love to hold a draft tournament on YCM.

I also want an explanation as to what you are talking about.

[DL]

The thing is, Arcanine is a wallbreaker. He hits hard but outspeeds any Pokemon that isn't built for speed. Extremespeed does that tho. His attack stat is usually high enough to take down most glass cannons. 

Also extremespeed >>> sucker punch

[.Rai]

Regarding the draft format, skip about 8:20 into this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoBtfDMM8z4

tl;dw Players take turns choosing Pokémon until they have 11, pre-tournament, with various restrictions, so you don't just grab 11 OU fatties (i.e. you have a point budget and pokémon 'cost' a certain amount). During the tournament, you can switch up what 6 you use out of the 11, as well as items, EV spreads and moves between rounds, depending on who you're going up against next. There are advantages to what order you are in the draft. If you're first, you obviously get first pick, but if you're last, you get the first consecutive pick of two Pokémon (as order reverses every round of picks) so they can build cores better. So, drafting is generally balanced, and you're not as restricted as an MtG style draft would feel.

[Flame Dragon]

The thing is, Arcanine is a wallbreaker. He hits hard but outspeeds any Pokemon that isn't built for speed. Extremespeed does that tho. His attack stat is usually high enough to take down most glass cannons. 

Also extremespeed >>> sucker punch

 
Extreme Speed does make the Adamant nature a lot safer. I honestly am stuck since I like both the offensive and defensive builds a fair bit. Maybe, morning sun + intimidate is a decent way to get some of the defensive perks on the offensive set.

 

Regarding the draft format, skip about 8:20 into this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoBtfDMM8z4

tl;dw Players take turns choosing Pokémon until they have 11, pre-tournament, with various restrictions, so you don't just grab 11 OU fatties (i.e. you have a point budget and pokémon 'cost' a certain amount). During the tournament, you can switch up what 6 you use out of the 11, as well as items, EV spreads and moves between rounds, depending on who you're going up against next. There are advantages to what order you are in the draft. If you're first, you obviously get first pick, but if you're last, you get the first consecutive pick of two Pokémon (as order reverses every round of picks) so they can build cores better. So, drafting is generally balanced, and you're not as restricted as an MtG style draft would feel.

That sounds pretty cool actually. I'd be down.

[DL]

I'd never use Arcanine in a defensive way, mostly because it's not a defensive type. He usually does really well. He works well as a wallbreaker or lat-game sweeper. Use whichever you feel most comfortable with tho.

[Flame Dragon]

I'd never use Arcanine in a defensive way, mostly because it's not a defensive type. He usually does really well. He works well as a wallbreaker or lat-game sweeper. Use whichever you feel most comfortable with tho.

Fire isn't a BAD defensive type seeing as how it resists 6 types. Sure, all its weakness suck but between the 6 resists, a healing move, will-o-wisp, and intimidate defensive Arcanine is really solid. As I said, I fear Arcanine killing itself to fast which is why I'd consider Morning Sun > Wild Charge. ATM I'm already planning on giving it Morning Sun, so if I don't like Wild Charge I'll be able to change it since Egg Moves you breed on can be relearned with Heart Scales.

[DL]

Fire isn't a BAD defensive type seeing as how it resists 6 types. Sure, all its weakness suck but between the 6 resists, a healing move, will-o-wisp, and intimidate defensive Arcanine is really solid. As I said, I fear Arcanine killing itself to fast which is why I'd consider Morning Sun > Wild Charge. ATM I'm already planning on giving it Morning Sun, so if I don't like Wild Charge I'll be able to change it since Egg Moves you breed on can be relearned with Heart Scales.

It's only because water, ground and rock are such common types in the meta.

[The banterbus is in town]

Regarding the draft format, skip about 8:20 into this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoBtfDMM8z4

tl;dw Players take turns choosing Pokémon until they have 11, pre-tournament, with various restrictions, so you don't just grab 11 OU fatties (i.e. you have a point budget and pokémon 'cost' a certain amount). During the tournament, you can switch up what 6 you use out of the 11, as well as items, EV spreads and moves between rounds, depending on who you're going up against next. There are advantages to what order you are in the draft. If you're first, you obviously get first pick, but if you're last, you get the first consecutive pick of two Pokémon (as order reverses every round of picks) so they can build cores better. So, drafting is generally balanced, and you're not as restricted as an MtG style draft would feel.

This is actually pretty cool. Reminds me a lot of when people used the point system for UMvC3.

[Flame Dragon]

It's only because water, ground and rock are such common types in the meta.

Luckily Ice, Fire, and Fairy are also VERY common attacking types so you have stuff you can switch into. Fire type is in a weird place defensively.

[Brinolovania]

Draft tournament sounds pretty cool :o

 

I've never used an Arcanine, so I don't have much more to say, but uh...yeah. Hi.

[BehindTheMask]

Im more of a VGC player myself, but id love to do a singles tourny.

 

As for Arcanine, he is good. I run WoW, morning sun, Flamethrower, and Snarl, but this is for doubles.