Xyz Encore

[玄魔の王]

We all remember this thing from back when Ophion was messing with everyone TCG-side right?

 

 

 

 

Target 1 face-up Xyz Monster your opponent controls that has Xyz Material; detach all Xyz Materials from it, and if you do, return it to theExtra Deck, then, if there is a Monster Card in the Graveyard among those detached Xyz Materials, Special Summon as many of those monsters as possible from the Graveyard to your opponent's side of the field in face-up Defense Position. Their Levels are reduced by 1 on the field. Cards and effects cannot be activated in response to this card's activation.

 

Well, it turns out this thing is an effective out to Number 86:

 

 

 

Q: If Xyz Encore is activated by targeting Number 86: Heroic Champion – Rhongomyniad with 3 or more Xyz Materials, how does it resolve?
A: The effect of Xyz Encore which detaches all Xyz Materials from the targeted monster is not considered an effect that affects that monster. (Therefore, all Xyz Materials are detached from Number 86: Heroic Champion – Rhongomyniad.) Since Number 86: Heroic Champion – Rhongomyniad has no Xyz Materials, it is no longer unaffected by all other card effects, so the part of the effect that returns it to the Extra Deck also applies normally, and if possible, any monsters among the detached Xyz Materials are Special Summoned in Defense Position and their Levels are reduced by 1.

 

Now, maybe I'm the only idiot who couldn't have inferred this, but I think it was always kinda nebulous at least for some players whether or not an effect that detached Xyz Materials affected the monster they were attached to. This confirms a solid "no".

 

And thanks to the no chaining thing, Infinity can't do jack either.

 

So anyway, discuss this in an Igknight kinda world.

[Minato Sakai]

time to start buying these

[mshends]

Well even if its good card to get rid of number 86, but in return your opponent has 3 or more monsters in DEF mode..

[ihop]

Well even if its good card to get rid of number 86, but in reture your opponent has 3 or more monsters in DEF mode

 

Which is much better than being able to do more or less nothing at all.

[mshends]

Which is much better than being able to do more or less nothing at all.

True, but if those  Xyz Material were Igknight or tellarknight on the other hand..

[ihop]

True, but if those DEF monsters were Igknight on the other hand..

 

If I had the choice between straight-up losing and having to attack 4 small-ish monsters I know what I'd choose.

[Blake]

True, but if those [background=#fdfdfd] [/size][/background]Xyz Material were Igknight or tellarknight on the other hand..

Then they're level 3. Who cares? Rank 3s suck, overall, especially in the case of Igknights. BA just make them overly efficiently.

[mshends]

Then they're level 3. Who cares? Rank 3s suck, overall, especially in the case of Igknights. BA just make them overly efficiently.

No but the card don't negate monster summon by it, so tellarknight's effect will trigger when it summon

In Igknight case it give the opponent (or the player) chance to destroy them (which will result in them going to the extra deck..)

 

The card returns number 86 back to the extra deck, so that give the opponent another chacne to summon it again

[~Faytl~]

No but the card don't negate monster summon by it, so tellarknight's effect will trigger when it summon
In Igknight case it give the opponent (or the player) chance to destroy them (which will result in them going to the extra deck..)

Satellarknight only get their effects once a turn, so that's not an issue unless they were using monsters they already had out. The Igknight point is valid though.

[Blake]

No but the card don't negate monster summon by it, so tellarknight's effect will trigger when it summon
In Igknight case it give the opponent (or the player) chance to destroy them (which will result in them going to the extra deck..)
 
The card returns number 86 back to the extra deck, so that give the opponent another chacne to summon it again

Satellarknight only get their effects once a turn, so that's not an issue unless they were using monsters they already had out. The Igknight point is valid though.

No, it isn't valid.

Returning Rhongo means they're never getting it back. In addition, leaving the materials in the grave is more dangerous.

If they have Rhongo, they likely resolvedd Key Beetle, or they went balls to the wall and blew their advantage.

In the former scenario, they can immediately recycle them all from the grave and put them into the ED. Keeping a lot of useless 3s, albeit with okay stats, is by far superior to putting them in the grave.

In the latter, it doesn't matter if it's in the ED or Grave. They have to blow up their scales to make a 5-mat Rhongo (going first) or blow their advantage on useless 3s that restrict their movements post-Encore.

Sure, they can ram them... but that can be outplayed. Even if they run a R3 or two, that's the advantage not being fully retained, an you come out on top.

You force them into a completely suboptimal position.

[mshends]

Well let's say if you active Xyz encore during your opponent's turn (active to avoid the last effect of 86, if your opponent summon it with 5 monsters) By returning those Igknights back to your opponent, opponents could then just uses those monsters for Igknight Burst, Ignition Phoenix, Avenger or Stinger..

 

If you active the card during your turn or your opponent's end turn, that still give them something to defense with, you have  to get rid of them soon (to avoid them being use for cards like Phoenix during your opponent turn etc) If you destroy them, them will just go to the extra deck (which is bad, cause your opponent could then just summon them back again) Sure you can uses way other then destroying them to get rid of them (remove from play, return to hand etc) But is very unlikely that you will manage to get rid all of them using that method (even if you do, you still waste some cards in order to do so)

[Blake]

Well let's say if you active Xyz encore during your opponent's turn (active to avoid the last effect of 86, if your opponent summon it with 5 monsters) By returning those Igknights back to your opponent, opponents could then just uses those monsters for Igknight Burst, Ignition Phoenix, Avenger or Stinger..
 
If you active the card during your turn, that still give them something to defense with, you have  to get rid of them soon (to avoid them being use for cards like Phoenix during your opponent turn etc) If you destroy them, them will just go to the extra deck (which is bad, cause your opponent could then just summon them back again) Sure you can uses way other then destroying them to get rid of them (remove from play, return to hand etc) But is very unlikely that you will manage to get rid all of them using that method (even if you do, you still waste some cards in order to do so)

Congratulations, you named not 1, not 2, but /4/ bad cards. You run no more than 1 of a single one of those. Phoenix is the best, and it's overkill in a build around ArmaKnight.

The defense point is just plain stupid. How is that worse than being unable to play? Sure, they go back to the ED, but, surprise surprise, you can outplay that. Again, if they made Rhongo without Beetle, then doing that means all you have to do is remove their scales and you win. With Beetle, you had likely lost anyways, but on the off chance you had not, this allows you to get back in the game. It's better than a Rhongomyniad existing, and this is the only out to it other than, like, Santa Claws/Lava Golem/Volcanic Queen. And this one's a quickplay spell that works against everything in the deck for your favor.

Even then, you alo have time to set backrow after that, so you have opportunities to outplay them. MST, answering Beetle in general, Warning, Bottomless, there are a lot of means. Sure, that's 2+ cards, but it's better than plain losing.

Yes, you would much prefer to find a Pendulum Impenetrable/Magical Spring/Yuki Usagi (if beetle/ptolemaios) against them, but this is an option for when you're on the draw instead of on the play.

[ihop]

I don't think you guys realise in how much trouble you're in if you get Rhongo'd with 4 mats. I'd literally choose almost anything over something that stops me from summoning at all and is unaffected by anything to boot. Who cares if they get 4 monsters? At least it means you don't literally lose like you would if they kept their Rhongo alive.

[mshends]

 TBF I never said anything about having more DEFs monster is worse than dealing number 86. I said that while you did get rid of 86 (return it to the extra deck) you still help your opponent summoning back their monsters. I would rather negative it’s summon (leaving nothing for them) then using Xyz encore (giving them something). If you miss the chance of negative its summon and happen to draw xyz encore, then yes go and use it, but then you need to find a way to get rid of those monsters.

 

The cards I mentioned on my previous post cards that will be use in a pure Igknight build (yes I do use one). They are decent for a pure build and xyz encore will help active them more easily. (Or they can just go for rank 3, but then rank 3 are not as strong as rank 4 anyway, but still you are giving them access to rank 3)  

 

Not every deck in general can always stop them from going to the extra deck, sometime you just have to get rid of them through destroying them. While is true that you can destroy the opponent’s scale to stop them from pendulum summon, but then shouldn’t you done that before number 86 was even summon in the first place. Even if you destroy the scale, a good Igknight player will just set another scale. Even if they don’t manage to set it up, there’s still chance they will be using cards like Pot of Riches to draw more cards.

 

The backrow point can also apply to the opponent as well; your opponent could just set cards that can negate or destroy what you want to do

[Blake]

 TBF I never said anything about having more DEFs monster is worse than dealing number 86. I said that while you did get rid of 86 (return it to the extra deck) you still help your opponent summoning back their monsters. I would rather negative it’s summon (leaving nothing for them) then using Xyz encore (giving them something). If you miss the chance of negative its summon and happen to draw xyz encore, then yes go and use it, but then you need to find a way to get rid of those monsters.

 

The cards I mentioned on my previous post cards that will be use in a pure Igknight build (yes I do use one). They are decent for a pure build and xyz encore will help active them more easily. (Or they can just go for rank 3, but then rank 3 are not as strong as rank 4 anyway, but still you are giving them access to rank 3)  

 

Not every deck in general can always stop them from going to the extra deck, sometime you just have to get rid of them through destroying them. While is true that you can destroy the opponent’s scale to stop them from pendulum summon, but then shouldn’t you done that before number 86 was even summon in the first place. Even if you destroy the scale, a good Igknight player will just set another scale. Even if they don’t manage to set it up, there’s still chance they will be using cards like Pot of Riches to draw more cards.

 

The backrow point can also apply to the opponent as well; your opponent could just set cards that can negate or destroy what you want to do

... Then why are you even making the point? That's a given.

 

Uh, what. There is no "pure build". At least, not a relevant one. The "pure build" is just Armageddon Knightless, and even then you don't use any of those 3 except 0-1 of the trap and 2-3 Phoenix.

 

"A good Igknight player will set another scale"

 

Not exxactly? I mean, that implies you're holding 2 more Igknights, which is highly unlikely unless Key Beetle, so... What was your point here

 

>Igknights

>backrow that actually matters

 

pfft

[mshends]

... Then why are you even making the point? That's a given.

Why not :P (Well some of you guys are think that's what I met so..)

 

 

Uh, what. There is no "pure build". At least, not a relevant one. The "pure build" is just Armageddon Knightless, and even then you don't use any of those 3 except 0-1 of the trap and 2-3 Phoenix.

I build a pure Igknight deck which mainly contain 70% lgknight cards, sure sometime is a bit inconsistent, but is actually really fun to use :p

 

 

Not exactly? I mean, that implies you're holding 2 more Igknights, which is highly unlikely unless Key Beetle, so... What was your point here?

Well I thought you met when you only destory only one of the scale (then you can just shinging draw the Igknights you need!!! /trollface, or use cards that search them off ) But if you get rid of 2 scales then well, unless the opponent has some card that stall (which is unlikely in a Igknights deck) then you are likely to win..

[ihop]

And what do you do if they go t1 Rhongo, scoop?

[mshends]

And what do you do if they go t1 Rhongo, scoop?

 

If you miss the chance of negative its summon and happen to draw xyz encore, then yes go and use it, but then you need to find a way to get rid of those monsters.

 TBH I don't think anyone will summon 86 on t1, usually people just summon it to use its last effect to nuke your field, but if they do happen to summon it t1, then you can just set some cards and end your turn (if you haven’t draw xyz encore). Summoning 86 (with 5 monsters) on t1 will surly leave them with little cards to use anyway, so you can just sit back and stall while your opponent try to do something with what little he/she has.

[ihop]

 TBH I don't think anyone will summon 86 on t1, usually people just summon it to use its last effect to nuke your field, but if they do happen to summon it t1, then you can just set some cards and end your turn (if you haven’t draw xyz encore). Summoning 86 (with 5 monsters) on t1 will surly leave them with little cards to use anyway, so you can just sit back and stall while your opponent try to do something with what little he/she has.

 

No, they summon it for it's 4th effect to STOP YOU SUMMONING MONSTERS

[mshends]

No, they summon it for it's 4th effect to STOP YOU SUMMONING MONSTERS

 

then you can just set some cards and end your turn (if you haven’t draw xyz encore). Summoning 86 (with 5 or 4 monsters) on t1 will surly leave them with little cards to use anyway, so you can just sit back and stall while your opponent try to do something with what little he/she has.

[ihop]

 

No, they summon it for it's 4th effect to STOP YOU SUMMONING MONSTERS

 

then you can just set some cards and end your turn (if you haven’t draw xyz encore). Summoning 86 (with 5 or 4 monsters) on t1 will surly leave them with little cards to use anyway, so you can just sit back and stall while your opponent try to do something with what little he/she has.

 

 

This is Igknights. They'll still have a bunch of monsters in the extra deck so they can just make another big play next turn and win.

[mshends]

This is Igknights. They'll still have a bunch of monsters in the extra deck so they can just make another big play next turn and win.

Not really, it really depend if they use number 66 to help them summon it or not. If they did use 66 to summon it, it means that it will have 4 xyz materials. Stalling for one turn is not a big deal, since you can then summon your monster(s) during your next turn. 

 

Using or not using 66 to summon will still take resources, and since they are summoning it during their t1 that will make it even more likely that they will. Even if they do have some cards leave to summon during their next turn, as long as you set some card that help stalling, you should be able to survive for a turn or two (then make your comback when you are able to summon)

[Blake]

Not really, it really depend if they use number 66 to help them summon it or not. If they did use 66 to summon it, it means that it will have 4 xyz materials. Stalling for one turn is not a big deal, since you can then summon your monster(s) during your next turn. 
 
Using or not using 66 to summon will still take resources, and since they are summoning it during their t1 that will make it even more likely that they will. Even if they do have some cards leave to summon during their next turn, as long as you set some card that help stalling, you should be able to survive for a turn or two (then make your comback when you are able to summon)

You know, using bold like you do reeks of desperation. Especially when you're not even right.

Like, stop fucking talking about Igknights. You know absolutely nothing.

Without Beetle, yes, a 4-5 May rhongo can happen but costs a lot.

With Key Beetle, it's a 3 card combo that allows you to make it on a complete and total plus.

Armageddon Knight, send Zephyros.
Zephyros, bounce an Igknight scale.
Make Beetle, set scale, beetle it.
Other scale is now a rota.

While you don't blindly filter your entire deck that turn, you do fill it up with, like, 2 of the 5 or the 6. And if beetle wasn't removed, they can go 3x4, a R4+R5, R4+R6, etc. Not to mention Armageddon Knight into Dragon, Farfa, Eccentric Archfiend, etc.

Your chances of stalling against rhongo beetle are not very high, and depend on Limited Cards or Book of Eclipse. Or, in this case, Xyz Encore to just break it.

You keep posting about the deck, but you clearly don't understand anything about how it worked, so just stop. Arguing shit for the sake of arguing it, be it with MF Dragon, this, or comparing REBD Sword to Dark Paladin is getting really old, because the comparisons and logic behind them are all terrible.